Yoda Legality Discussion. .hmmmm

RiBu

RiBu

Mitsu-Fucking-Rugi
Only for Yoda. I bring this up for the simple fact from playing TvC I've noticed not 1 but 2 characters that change the way the game play drastically and are not banned-
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD LIGHTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
and
PTX-40A Chevy

Neither character can be grabbed
Generally speaking combos don't work on these characters except for certain moves, TakkeMan's HCB A/B/C for example.
Both characters have nearly 1 and 1/3 the health of anyone else, and twice as much health as karas(fuck him. . fucking CGI ninja)

Now these characters sound like they'd be indestructible monsters. . right?
Well here's how they're balanced out:

Slow . .like really really slow.
No Assists. So it's just 2 on 1 pretty much if you're a giant. .
Can be stunned- usually super while stun them at some point in the duration, and knock them down.
Compared to certain other characters. .KARAS. . they don't do any real damage. . and have to burn meter and red health to combo usually.



Alright now let's look once again at Yoda. .for the 31st time I believe:
-Can't be grab.
-Launch combos don't work on him usually, famously the Hilde DOOM COMBO is much harder on Yoda. . and moves such as Algol's 33B or Vader's 44B+K barely launch him at all.
-HIGH high moves completely whiff on him and certain moves just go right over him. He has moves that put him lower to the ground that make even some mids whiff as well.
-Can force cancel certain attacks and use that to side step, or continue pressuring you.
-Can rely on 3G/1G usually instead of have to worry about highs. IDK about this really. . but OOF talked about it. .and it sounds awesome for a character to only need 1/2 the defensive mind options as anyone else..

Alright now on paper this sounds like a REALLY REALLY (REALLY?) good character.
Downsides:
-SLOW CHARACTER. Aside from 3 moves he doesnt have anything useful under i20. . .
-Smallest Soul Gauge in the game. 2/3.
-Small Size.A double edge sword if you will. Since he's so small he has to run a lot more to get from A to B than anyone else. Example- SK's A+K flips keep Yoda perma-locked away. .
-Lack of a decent sidestep. Yoda's normal 2_8 is incredibly slow. And his 22_88 flips have serious recovery when landing and don't sidestep all the great in the first place.
-Damage. Yoda has to fight for this and hard. His strongest non CH combo comes off a very slow, semi-linear vertical and only does 70 something damage.
-Range. Aside from 6B,6A+K, and A+K he lacks range. . and most characters have plenty of moves to outzone him and take advantage of his weak run,SG, or sidestep.

Now the only other reasons for banning are these two:
-He costs money to buy if you own a ps3.
-He's not Soul Calibur. Namco sold out.

The only one of these two that hold weight. . .In a world of logic. . . Is Reason 1. However as brought up before people have to pay not only to play in tournies+drive there. . but also for any equipment needed for the use of another console they don't own. In the end the only group that doesn't have Yoda that has access to the most recent version of SC4 now are those who own a PS3 with SC4 who refused to buy the character.
 
Even tho you don't play yoda no more, I do see what you are doing.
Some more points to mention is:
- Yoda's Step Force Cancels don't always work not because they can hit you, but them hitting the lightsaber hits yoda, i don't know why but some attacks in the air, to interrupt they don't have to hit you and sometimes they can't but hitting the lightsaber counts as a hit against yoda sometimes.
- And also Majority of Yoda's Force Cancels can be interrupted even the sometimes they are essential for a good mixup
- And 2 highs can i think off the top of my head do hit yoda, 6K with NM and there was another one i can remember.

But yea, even tho you went to the dark side (Rawr) the support for unbannment is appreciated


Edit: another point i thought of is that even tho people say they get annoyed of yoda, Yoda is easily shutdown, which turnsaway alot of players and that there is only 1 person who actually plays yoda competitivly, we know oof just messes around with him lol, and now that i think of it i think that -_- guy is the one that asked me for advice for playing with yoda so he can pick him up.

Also another thing the only character you can't play the 1/3G GI options on is nightmare, because of the 6K altho like oof said it does actually work especially when you expect it, it's just "GI BIATCH!"
 
Since OP had to mention TvC in his original post as a comparision, I felt like it was time for this long-time lurker, first-time poster to intervene.

Frankly, I don't think that it's a fair comparison by any means. There are a number of other factors that are involved when it comes to the giant characters in TvC. Frankly, you're better off comparing PTX's and Yoda's relation to TvC and SCIV respectively. They both are basically "bad" characters in "cheap" character design. Being forced to change the way you play is not reason enough to ban a character. If I have to deal with "gamestate-altering" characters (that are actually good, mind you) in other games, nobody should complain about Yoda.

Let's talk about your most valid argument, the fact that people have to buy characters. In a sense, haven't people been buying characters since II? Namco has been making it hard for the series to have a competitive scene because they "sold out" by going multi-platform and adding popular, yet irrelevant characters to ensure good sales. Sounds familiar? Why should anyone be surprised that Namco wants your money and is willing to take it by unfair means? Old news is old.

Besides, what about the lower level tournament scene where 360's are present? They have to shell out the money for Vader. At higher levels, the return in profit you get from each tourney should definitely make up for it. You only have to pay for Yoda once. You'll get money from Yoda players forever. Therefore, unless you're a TO, you shouldn't be whining about having to buy Yoda. However, if you're a TO, I don't think you should be banning characters at all. More characters means more players, which means a higher turnout, which means more money.

I may add more, but I'll conclude with this. If it's a question of the gameplay and mechanics of the games, I don't think banning characters is the answer. (In my opinion, we have a lot of other things to complain about as far as game mechanics go, but that's another story.) If it's a matter of money, the price is not significant enough to keep people from enjoying him.
 
I was just spewing out facts more than anything else. However, I do agree with you. I just think we need to consider motions that are as big as banning by understanding the game alone in all it's entirety and the impact the problem makes, not by making comparisons to other games. Either way, I love Yoda. He's the only character I would pick up in this game besides Hilde.
 
Yoda doesnt need legalising or banning, he needs deleting. Sorry no help to the discussion but hey ho there ya go!

PS: I feel sorry for the people who spent their hard earned money to purchase him (on psn). :D
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The Yoda ban has never been motivated by objective, rational thought. Any ginned-up technical-sounding pretenses are just crutches: crutches that prop up sad, hateful little bitches. They'll be arriving here any minute now. No sequence of reasoning, no matter how clear, will ever get through to these people, because reasoning isn't what made them feel this way in the first place.

[edit: Oops! Took too long. One of them got in before me.]
 
Something else that was brought up by another member,

"If yoda was unbanned then you would get a sworm of players to pick up yoda"

Honestly, if that was the case then it would have already happened and it has, people that i've seen try to pick up yoda and have asked me if i could teach them how to play yoda, and then they quit playing yoda.
On final thoughts it won't happen, unbannment just wouldn't make people sworm towards yoda because alot of people have tried and failed already and quite frankly have no dedication, and even if people were to pick up yoda, as of right now, I am the only competitive yoda player, besides maybe -_- and i am not to sure about him because he said he played other characters, so idk.
 
Jinkwai said:
You only have to pay for Yoda once. You'll get money from Yoda players forever.
Click to expand...

Even tho i agree with you, you won't hardly get money from yoda players seeing as there are still only maybe 2, besides oof but he's plays talim and lizzy.
But even then buying it and having, for example me attend would make up for the 5 dollars paid, with the 5,10,20 dollars i'll pay to enter.


Jinkwai said:
Either way, I love Yoda. He's the only character I would pick up in this game besides Hilde.
Click to expand...

Tellin ya, saying it and doing it is 2 different things in it's entirety
 
The keyword there is "would." I don't play SC at all. I pretty much hate the mechanics of IV in particular. I just like characters with cool concepts like Yoda and Hilde. I joined this forum to see if it would change my mind. Also, my fiance' wants to get into the game. So far, I don't like the decisions the competitive community have made towards the game. They are made way too hastly and without sufficient tournament results to back it up.

Regardless, the fact that Yoda is banned now is sufficient enough for a ton of people to drop him if things don't work out. It enables them to quit. I see some people holding on at least to see how they fare against a competitive scene if he wasn't. I'd definitely go at least that far.

Philbond, I must ask you. What did make them feel that way in the first place? We need to get to that source of the problems.
 
PhilBond said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The Yoda ban has never been motivated by objective, rational thought. Any ginned-up technical-sounding pretenses are just crutches: crutches that prop up sad, hateful little bitches. They'll be arriving here any minute now. No sequence of reasoning, no matter how clear, will ever get through to these people, because reasoning isn't what made them feel this way in the first place.

[edit: Oops! Took too long. One of them got in before me.]
Click to expand...

I think this sums up the problem I've had with this a long time. . . but I digress. . .hehe

There really isn't anymore to add except he makes the game boring. . but Voldo makes it AWKWARD. . so I guess it's a fair trade-off
 
Philbond, I must ask you. What did make them feel that way in the first place?
Click to expand...

They don't feel that Star Wars characters "belong" in Soul Calibur. Without strong enough reasons, they've in the end been mostly unable to keep the full-sized guys out, but like I said: in Yoda's case, they've successfully leveraged his short stature into a crutch.

This community loves, and has always loved, banning things. That is how they convince themselves that we are playing a competition-worthy version of the game. To stage a competition for a game, and then play the game straight, the way it is generally known to the public: that would be unacceptable.

It's not completely crazy. Soul Calibur 3 had a highly exploitable glitch called "variable guard cancel" which most people would agree ruined the game, and turned it into something completely unintended.

Yoda, obviously, is not an unanticipated perversion to SC4. The programmers had to work hard to make him a part of the game, so you'd have to be an idiot to allege that his balance issues were given no consideration, but idiots are what we have.

They look at Yoda, they feel disgust. Simple as that.
 
In my opinion, Yoda is somewhat overpowered. People have said that he's bottom tier, but that certainly isn't true. He can do shit to other characters, and they can't really do much to him. The soul gauge issue isn't really a problem if you can impact.

And I'm not necessarily speaking from a pro-ban point of view, I'm actually a Yoda player myself. If I could, I would definitely set Yoda as my tertiary character here.
 
Yes if Yoda can use a universal system option that far better characters can use. . then his handicap is void. . WORD.
 
Sudden spark of yoda players, since when?

And ribu, i can so not sense the Carolina Sarcasm
 
There are all those glitches on him that gaurantee Yoda's demise too... :/
Astaroth's 44B, 4B mix-up - something I still can't get around.
If Yoda had an instant Force Just Ukemi and a much needed Force Heal he'd be top tier... but that isn't goin to happen!
Oh yeah, hating Yoda is racial profiling... lol
The Hulk also gets angry when you hate on his Cousin... <OK that one was bad...
 
Carolina sarcasm? lol What's that?

@MAILBOXARSON99- I don't get it. Besides his "advantage," what makes him overpowered and not bottom tier?

@Ribu- How does Yoda make the game boring?
 
The saddest thing is I've seen people (like DINO) claim that if Yoda was only "a little asian old man", they wouldn't even mind him.

Seriously, what the fuck? Go back to Smashboards with that bullshit, it's much more fitting there than here.
 
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