Fuzion
[09] Warrior
Stop that please, let people say what they want to say.
Ban Hilde
- Thread starter BanHilde
- Start date
- Status
Stop that please, let people say what they want to say.
JetSetDizzy
[11] Champion
As long as any character is banned its reasonable to discuss this.
Impending_Doom66
[09] Warrior
Reasonable? Don't make me laugh. This community is pathetic, and I knew this was coming. As soon as Hilde is banned people will just move on to the next high tier character that they can't fight.
D_Matt_Ma
[10] Knight
I go to sleep, and when I log on the next day... BAM!
I'm still sticking with my Rock anti Hilde Strategy. Land an attack and hope she never breaks ground throws. Don't ask me how I do either. That's too "technical."
I'm still sticking with my Rock anti Hilde Strategy. Land an attack and hope she never breaks ground throws. Don't ask me how I do either. That's too "technical."
sWoRD_LoRD
[09] Warrior
Only allowing Hilde to be played on a couple stages sounds like a good idea. Discuss that some more....
Unbanning Algol, but banning his bubbles except for in combos sounds like a good idea. Discuss that some more....
Unbanning Vader sounds like a good idea................................................................
Unbanning Algol, but banning his bubbles except for in combos sounds like a good idea. Discuss that some more....
Unbanning Vader sounds like a good idea................................................................
Yoshimitsu
[09] Warrior
While I do see where you're coming from, banning something is just plain stupid. It takes the fun out of the game.
Yoshimitsu
[09] Warrior
If they did that, there would be no point in using Algol.
Utsuse
[09] Warrior
Exactly. The "I don't want to pay extra for more game content" argument is the lamest excuse I've ever heard. If you want to be competitive you'll spend the money. If you're not willing to fork out a measly $5 dollars, then clearly being competitive isn't a priority to you.
Impending_Doom66
[09] Warrior
You have to pay for internet to get the patch.
ZombiEHervE
[09] Warrior
Hilde on ring out stage is broken. This is coming from someone who never wanted Star Wars banned. If you still want to allow her then allow an option like opponent to pick the stage.
sWoRD_LoRD
[09] Warrior
Algol is a very good character without the bubbles. Without the bubbles, he still has advantage in the majority of matchups, but he isn't broken at all, not really overpowered either. I'd use him in tournaments without bubbles (only in combos).
The_Realyst
[09] Warrior
After going to the regional in NJ, I have really been turned off from this game. A LOT of people are jumping to Hilde and the trend will continue. I believe that this is only the beginning when it comes to this character. It WILL get worse.
You have one move that has HUGE range, is completely safe, does 100+ damage, is hard as fuck to step (don't act like it is...) leads to stupid juggles that ring out from almost anywhere and though it leaves Hilde at negative frames on block, its not enough frames to lock her down as she can still step and backdash most moves. On top of that, she has another move that can not be stepped, fast, plus frames on block, crushes highs, GI's mid A's and mid B's, which lead to the same stupid ring out juggle... With my character (Sophie) it's just sickening. After C3B, C3A is more likely to be followed. So after the C3B, I am limited to fast kicks or lows with range on them. Sophie only has 44K, 1K and 1A... I won't even speak on 1A..., 1K will work if she steps, but not if she backdashes and 44K can be stepped and backdashed in that situation too. So either way what will happen is, I whiff, eat C3A get picked up off the floor and sent out of the ring. All for trying to do a low damage kick. I'm sure there are other options, but none will kill Hilde with one hit in the middle of the stage. This is a guessing game where the risk-reward factor is extremely imbalanced. I know I sound like I'm eating sour grapes because my character doesn't seem to be able to get around this well, but I'm sure other characters that are in similar situations. Ban or no ban, this shit is stupid and I don't see how anyone can think otherwise.
I'm sorry, but you can't ask anyone to play PERFECT, which is essentially what you are asking anyone that goes against Hilde to do and if your argument is to say "Oh well, that is only the case on certain stages", just proves the point. You have to get lucky and hope that you are not put on a small stage. I'm sorry, but LUCK should not be a factor in competitive gaming. And even if you get put on a large stage, if it doesn't have walls, you are in danger.
This is just my opinion. You guys do what you like. I'm not going to say remove the character from the game. I will just remove myself from it and anyone else that doesn't like it should do the same and let the community decide what it wants to do. I won't even bother to vote seeing how I will not play this game again at least until it has been patched.
OOFMatic - You said that the SC3 community was destroyed by the game, not the community. I think it was both. Yea, Namco fucked up, but if the community banned VC right away, people would of stayed on. I would have at least. I stopped playing sc3 100% because of VC.
My two cents...
Peace out.
You have one move that has HUGE range, is completely safe, does 100+ damage, is hard as fuck to step (don't act like it is...) leads to stupid juggles that ring out from almost anywhere and though it leaves Hilde at negative frames on block, its not enough frames to lock her down as she can still step and backdash most moves. On top of that, she has another move that can not be stepped, fast, plus frames on block, crushes highs, GI's mid A's and mid B's, which lead to the same stupid ring out juggle... With my character (Sophie) it's just sickening. After C3B, C3A is more likely to be followed. So after the C3B, I am limited to fast kicks or lows with range on them. Sophie only has 44K, 1K and 1A... I won't even speak on 1A..., 1K will work if she steps, but not if she backdashes and 44K can be stepped and backdashed in that situation too. So either way what will happen is, I whiff, eat C3A get picked up off the floor and sent out of the ring. All for trying to do a low damage kick. I'm sure there are other options, but none will kill Hilde with one hit in the middle of the stage. This is a guessing game where the risk-reward factor is extremely imbalanced. I know I sound like I'm eating sour grapes because my character doesn't seem to be able to get around this well, but I'm sure other characters that are in similar situations. Ban or no ban, this shit is stupid and I don't see how anyone can think otherwise.
I'm sorry, but you can't ask anyone to play PERFECT, which is essentially what you are asking anyone that goes against Hilde to do and if your argument is to say "Oh well, that is only the case on certain stages", just proves the point. You have to get lucky and hope that you are not put on a small stage. I'm sorry, but LUCK should not be a factor in competitive gaming. And even if you get put on a large stage, if it doesn't have walls, you are in danger.
This is just my opinion. You guys do what you like. I'm not going to say remove the character from the game. I will just remove myself from it and anyone else that doesn't like it should do the same and let the community decide what it wants to do. I won't even bother to vote seeing how I will not play this game again at least until it has been patched.
OOFMatic - You said that the SC3 community was destroyed by the game, not the community. I think it was both. Yea, Namco fucked up, but if the community banned VC right away, people would of stayed on. I would have at least. I stopped playing sc3 100% because of VC.
My two cents...
Peace out.
ChaCha
[10] Knight
All this is turning into is people looking to find holes in each others arguments to validate their own OPINIONS!!!
How about this:
Let all the current rules be what they are until Nationals is over, see what happens at the next few majors and nationals, see if Hilde becomes as dominant as feared to be, and address it when ALL OPTIONS are explored.
what would be so hard about this? If Hilde clearly starts winning all tournaments and all good players start coming to the same conclusions AND she doesn't get patched, THEN we think about it as a LAST resort.
that is all that should be said, but I know at this point people are just looking to beef with others because they feel ignored. Crai moar plz.
cha cha
How about this:
Let all the current rules be what they are until Nationals is over, see what happens at the next few majors and nationals, see if Hilde becomes as dominant as feared to be, and address it when ALL OPTIONS are explored.
what would be so hard about this? If Hilde clearly starts winning all tournaments and all good players start coming to the same conclusions AND she doesn't get patched, THEN we think about it as a LAST resort.
that is all that should be said, but I know at this point people are just looking to beef with others because they feel ignored. Crai moar plz.
cha cha
shauno
[09] Warrior
Props to Cedric for being a great player. In no way am I saying anything negative about him because he did what he is supposed to do, which is to go all-out with any and all the tools allowed. I never saw Hilde being played full strength before yesterday's tourney, so I had no opinion on her other than she was obviously really good. However a few things are clear now that I've seen it for myself.
- She is far worse than Tekken 4 Jin, a character which eventually overwhelmed the placings of many tournies with an overpowered laser scraper juggle starter.
- To even get a shot at winning a round, your defense has to be far superior against her than against any other character in the game. And that's just to get a shot since after delivering 99% damage to her you can literally be on one side of a ring and her launcher can RO you to the other side.
- Infinites are banned (like Ivy's pre-patch infinite) because they give a free round win to a player just because his opponent allows one opening to get hit by the starter. On RO stages, it seemed Hilde's reward yesterday was at least a 70% rate of insta-win for the round after one opening by her opponent was exploited. If it were 100% damage it would be better because then the community wouldn't argue over the extreme cheapness of it all.
Players with real skill, like King Salmon, Vicious Suicide, AlexJ and M0Tempest and were reduced to turtling statues or cautious steppers for most of their matches. There was no "fight" going on, which players and fans appreciate as the skillful tug of war going back and forth between two very good players with "fair" characters. It was mainly just efforts by the non-Hilde character (it matters little what the character is) to avoid the inevitable.... one mistake = an almost guaranteed insta-win.
Even aris, who obviously gave the best general fight against her, was mainly delaying the inevitable that we all saw was coming over the course of the tourney. Did he put Hilde in loser's? Sure, but the character can more greatly benefit from adapting to an opponent than vice versa. In other words, there is only so much a non-Hilde player can do to sustain a strategy of "just don't get hit" over the long haul.
Yes, she makes mistakes and gets punished for it, but if HER opponent makes a similar mistake he is hurt very badly and often simply loses to a RO. The balance right there is insanely skewed in her favor. Sure enough, aris' strats were reduced to almost nothing as Cedric adapted since all she needs to do is get ONE opening (two at most) to win even though aris may have punished her with many more openings over the course of their matches.
The matches were so predictable and boring in the top tier reward Hilde gets for such little risk (50% damage and ROs) that the crowd in general was just as unexcited to see another one of her launchers connect as they were in the Evolution mega T4 tourney where Jin's laserscraping was dominating. At least he only got 50% damage for his high reward combo starter... Hilde gets money like that from several starters, an auto-GI in one of them, incredible range AND an instant round win from an RO in many of her connects. She is absolutely terrible for the game in her current state.
- She is far worse than Tekken 4 Jin, a character which eventually overwhelmed the placings of many tournies with an overpowered laser scraper juggle starter.
- To even get a shot at winning a round, your defense has to be far superior against her than against any other character in the game. And that's just to get a shot since after delivering 99% damage to her you can literally be on one side of a ring and her launcher can RO you to the other side.
- Infinites are banned (like Ivy's pre-patch infinite) because they give a free round win to a player just because his opponent allows one opening to get hit by the starter. On RO stages, it seemed Hilde's reward yesterday was at least a 70% rate of insta-win for the round after one opening by her opponent was exploited. If it were 100% damage it would be better because then the community wouldn't argue over the extreme cheapness of it all.
Players with real skill, like King Salmon, Vicious Suicide, AlexJ and M0Tempest and were reduced to turtling statues or cautious steppers for most of their matches. There was no "fight" going on, which players and fans appreciate as the skillful tug of war going back and forth between two very good players with "fair" characters. It was mainly just efforts by the non-Hilde character (it matters little what the character is) to avoid the inevitable.... one mistake = an almost guaranteed insta-win.
Even aris, who obviously gave the best general fight against her, was mainly delaying the inevitable that we all saw was coming over the course of the tourney. Did he put Hilde in loser's? Sure, but the character can more greatly benefit from adapting to an opponent than vice versa. In other words, there is only so much a non-Hilde player can do to sustain a strategy of "just don't get hit" over the long haul.
Yes, she makes mistakes and gets punished for it, but if HER opponent makes a similar mistake he is hurt very badly and often simply loses to a RO. The balance right there is insanely skewed in her favor. Sure enough, aris' strats were reduced to almost nothing as Cedric adapted since all she needs to do is get ONE opening (two at most) to win even though aris may have punished her with many more openings over the course of their matches.
The matches were so predictable and boring in the top tier reward Hilde gets for such little risk (50% damage and ROs) that the crowd in general was just as unexcited to see another one of her launchers connect as they were in the Evolution mega T4 tourney where Jin's laserscraping was dominating. At least he only got 50% damage for his high reward combo starter... Hilde gets money like that from several starters, an auto-GI in one of them, incredible range AND an instant round win from an RO in many of her connects. She is absolutely terrible for the game in her current state.
KrayzieCD
[11] Champion
I agree with Realyst and Shauno, Hilde ring out combos are the stupidest shit to ever hit Soul Calibur. At first it was SC2/SC3 Xianghua but at least with her you can make more than one mistake and still have some kind of chance to come back. Only way to do that with Hilde is to play her in a stage with no ring outs and there are only 2 of those, and 2 other levels that give you somewhat of a fair shot of winning.
Cedric is my boy and even he admits that those ring out combos are rediculous but you can't fault him for using them, this is the first SC game he's been competitive in and Hilde was his main from the start, BEFORE all the ring out BS was discovered so yeah....like back when people used to do C3B and then do that move where she grabs you out of the sky with the pole thing and slams you down lol. Still though, I was kind of hoping Namco would be more consistent with the patches and we wouldn't have to do the whole 'ban this, ban that' to keep the game fair.
To all the people screaming 'learn to deal with it'....please don't speak on it until you've actually played a REALLY good Hilde like Cedric or KDZ. If you haven't dealt with it, you simply just don't understand how frustrating it is, just how a lot of the SoCal regional people have described. Not just frustrating like dealing with SC2/SC3 Xianghua, but frustrating to the point where you feel the game...or Hilde rather...is just pointless to play against on certain levels.
Cedric is my boy and even he admits that those ring out combos are rediculous but you can't fault him for using them, this is the first SC game he's been competitive in and Hilde was his main from the start, BEFORE all the ring out BS was discovered so yeah....like back when people used to do C3B and then do that move where she grabs you out of the sky with the pole thing and slams you down lol. Still though, I was kind of hoping Namco would be more consistent with the patches and we wouldn't have to do the whole 'ban this, ban that' to keep the game fair.
To all the people screaming 'learn to deal with it'....please don't speak on it until you've actually played a REALLY good Hilde like Cedric or KDZ. If you haven't dealt with it, you simply just don't understand how frustrating it is, just how a lot of the SoCal regional people have described. Not just frustrating like dealing with SC2/SC3 Xianghua, but frustrating to the point where you feel the game...or Hilde rather...is just pointless to play against on certain levels.
Ceirnian
[11] Champion
Mmmm these tears, so delicious. Apparently I'm making people quit now?
Saw this thread coming from miles away, let's see how this mini-smash community deals with the heat. Funny how 3 characters that are good at playing against Hilde (Yoda / Algol / Vader in some tournaments) are banned.
Saw this thread coming from miles away, let's see how this mini-smash community deals with the heat. Funny how 3 characters that are good at playing against Hilde (Yoda / Algol / Vader in some tournaments) are banned.
ChaCha
[10] Knight
I want a list of people quitting the game because of Hilde. Nao.
D_Matt_Ma
[10] Knight
I think the ban of those 3 characters may have caused more damage to SC4 than we ever hoped. It completely threw the match-ups table out of whack when Hilde was able to ignore all her weaknesses and force the opponent to play HER game every time.
I'm not at the ban level yet, but I have yet to find any real weakness to her. All I know is Rock does better against her than Algol, so my opinion may be biased?
- Thread starter
- #119
BanHilde
[08] Mercenary
Cedric, this is not about you. It's agreed that you're a very skilled player, so there's no disrespect there.
This character, however, is something that should certainly be discussed. And the discussion should not be ridiculed.
I know how you feel about me from the chatlog:
But this isn't the time to be keeping discussion on an elitist "Logical Banning" group board. Community input should be taken into account as well.
Ceirnian
[11] Champion
Community input has already degraded this game enough, I don't really care to watch it devolve even further because some people are ejecting a torrent of water from their eyes.
Post with your real forum name or get the hell out. That's my stance and I won't even begin to take you seriously until you do.
Post with your real forum name or get the hell out. That's my stance and I won't even begin to take you seriously until you do.
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