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So that being said, Siegfried only has moves that knocks opponents away such as AGA, 3A or 1AA but nothing to bring in opponents closer. NM would have the same issue but he has Grim Stride.

I hope that Helps you guys understand where I'm coming from. I'm not saying you guys are wrong because you're not. But I do think that Zoning is being used as too broad of a term if Siegfried fits this criteria.

Oh and one more thing. I feel that Hilde is not a good MU against Sieg mainly due to a game mechanic. See Hilde does have much better reach but she has an Achilis heel. Just guards lock out her major source of damage. (any move that has a 3 sec. charge)

Ah you guys might also want to test the range thing on Sieg vs NM. The best example I can give proving that NMs reach is better than Siegs is their AGAs you will find that not only NMs aga is fast but also has longer reach. (side note, on block, NMs is also safer due to the fact it's a GB)

if NM's GS allows him to get through this "issue" then the same could be said SRSH 6B+K as it moves Sieg forward roughly same distance and you can do it repeatedly, NM may have GS wavedash, it's hard to pull off consistently whereas Sieg can advance forward and go into other stances aswell...scratch that you could say that for ALL of his stances as they each have a fair bit of mobility added to them.

Hilde's 22B is labelled the "Siegfried killer" from the simple fact it spaces the hell out of him for jokes and it's not like Hilde continually uses C3 moves outside of whiff punishing and combo extensions

I can already tell you Siegs range is overall better than NM's, if this were SCIV then you may have had a point, but since the release of SCV just about any competent NM player noticed the nerf in his range.

As for agA's:
Both NM's agA and iagA are one frame faster than Siegs, being i15 and i16 respectively, with Siegs being i16 and i17.

on GRD NM's agAs are +1 and plus + 2 at tip range, while Siegs is straight +2.

on JG NM's agA's are a whopping -23, fucking launcher punishable, while siegs is only -13, so even on GRD or JG Siegs agA is safe as fk, meaning the worst you'll incur will be either AA, 2A, Cerv CE, aPat CE or a simple K, meatier daage requires meter

both iagA's GC in 15, so NM's GB means nothing really, also I feel Siegs agA has a better KND for Oki/w!'s/left side RO's

I kinda agree that Sieg has some weaknesses that prevent him from being amazing at zoning. Like how a lot of mid range moves are death on whiff (e.g. 22A and 2A) and how 3B doesn't launch at tip range and gives crap oki. Why would a character built to play mid range have such a rubbish mid range whiff punisher? There is iWR B, but it's a little impractical most of the time.

As for agAs, I'd also side with Sieg's being better. Both are great on block, but NM's needs the blockstun. What this means is that if it gets ducked or JG'd, the opponent has a huge window in which to punish, while Sieg's agA is really hard to whiff punish.

Oh, and if you think Hilde is weak to JGs, you've probably never played a decent one. If they're spamming C3A, just SBH dat shit. One nice thing is that without her CE, she can't really punish certain moves like 66B, and her 3B punishment options aren't as scary. Check out Kamichang play the MU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZwEicEPNuo

It's a 2 year old video but still relevant. Sieg can't control the spacing too well against her since she has superior movement and whiff punishers. Not to mention 22B going under your agAs AND your 22As for some reason.

Oh and I disagree about Sieg having mobility in his stances. As you'll see in that video, he gets CE punished for using them in that gimmicky way.

Kamichang <3

Hmmm. Interesting. I won against LordXavier several times. As for the 6B+K, there are 2 things you have to take into account. First off, it doesn't tech duck like GS and second you're limited to stance moves for mu.

While NMs GS on the other hand does tech duck, it also has way more options. You can do any GS move, WR move and low or high grab.

But all being said, I do see your points guys. I guess you can call Sieg a zone character but he just barely classifies as one.

stances aren't an integral part of NM's gameplay, so you'll rarely see it be used as such outside of GS cancel, combos or okizeme. NSS A+B, GS B, NSS A are possibly the only useful stance moves, the rest serve for combo extensions and honestly the TC on GS isn't all that noteworthy tbh.
Outside of combo use you're more likely to see GS mixups on oki

if anything Sieg has much more options in stances and cancels

if it helps try fighting Sandman, he'll show you what up with Siegfried