4A+B Auto-GI Study

Kalas

Kalas

[13] Hero
In this thread we will gather all information about this useful Auto-GI including some basic facts, its properties for countering moves and set-ups.


1. Basic Facts

Speed: i25
Block: -10
Hit: Knockdown + RO
Damage: 40
Guard Burst Damage: doesn't break opponent's guard, but flashes red in 9
JG on 2nd hit: -17

Combo:
  • 4A+B 66K (56dmg)
  • 4A+B CE (97dmg)
  • 4A+B CE CE (157dmg)
  • + W!-Combos

2. Auto-GI-Properties

Active window: 3-7
Counters: all high, mid and s-low horizontals + all high and mid vertical stabs


3. Usefulness

3.1. countering strings
Despite having a very tiny active frame window for an Auto-GI, Leixia's 4A+B is still very useful. Due to being active very early, you can counter a lot of strings that are uninterruptable and unsteppable. Generally, this move is excellent against strings, but very bad in the 'open field' because you can't counter single horizontals/stabs on reaction at the 7th frame.
Additionally you always get 56 guaranteed damage without spending any meter, making it one of Leixia's strongest Normal Hit Combos. That's even more than you would get with 3B, 22B or FC3B which is why (imo) it is worth to counter high-strings with it, too. Not to mention that 4A+B gives wallsplats (the strongest ones for Leixia) and RO's over fences as well. Furthermore, it replaces JG in a lot of situations. Assuming you would get a JG down, you get a free launcher at maximum which does less damage than 4A+B + Combo.
Last but not least: 4A+B does huge Guard Burst damage (breaks in 8).

3.2. other applications
Besides its use against strings, 4A+B can also be used when you expect your opponent to interrupt you with AA or 2A (of course there are other interrupts, but AA's and 2A's are the most generic).
In my opinion, there are two general set-ups for this.

a) attacks that leave you in FC
  • reason: In FC, you have the possibility to put pressure on your opponent via WR B (BE) easily. So your opponent is likely to interrupt you with fast horizontals (e.g. 2A). Of course he can still step, but Leixia has answers to people stepping after every move the leaves her in FC.
  • examples (on block): 2A, 3A, 1B, 66AA, 3A+B, WR A+BB, 22kAAB - (on hit): 2K, 11A
b) attacks that leave your opponent in FC
  • reason: When your opponent is forced into FC after having blocked a certain safe move, chances are he will try to interrupt you with FC 2A in order to prevent you from stepping or interrupting him with 2A or AA.
  • examples: 6B+K, 3B+KK (after launchers), 44K, WR A+BB. 22kAAB

4. List of counter'able strings

The following list shows all strings that can be countered with 4A+B.

Example:

AA (the underlined letter stands for the countered hit)
immediate or delayed (stands for the time when to release 4A+B after having blocked the hit before), SS, FC (stands for other ways to counter certain strings, note that these mostly only guarantee a launcher that does less damage than 4A+B)
- for BT Moves I have not added a note for timing, because it depends on the set-up


- 6BB
immediate, FC

- 44BAA
delayed (first), immediate (second), FC

- 3AA
immediate

- 4BA
delayed

- BT A+B

- 6AA
immediate

- 1AA, 1A:A
immediate

- FC 3B:B, FC 3B:B BE
delayed, QS left or 1B+K

- 22AA
immediate, FC

- 22BA
immediate, FC

- AA
delayed, FC

- AB
delayed, SS, 1B+K

- 6AA
immediate, FC

- BB6
delayed, QS right

- 3KA, 3K[A] and 3[K][A]
delayed, FC or interrupt

- 3[K]A
immediate, FC

- 1KA
delayed, FC (highly recommended to do FC)

- BT B+K

- 6BB
delayed, SS or 1B+K

- WR A+B (last hit)
delayed, SS or 1B+K

- 6B BE (last hit) and WR A+B BE (last hit)
delayed, SS or 1B+K

- 22A BE (second hit)
delayed, SS or 1B+K

- BT B+K

- 3AA
delayed

- 3BB
delayed, QS left or 1B+K

- BT B+K

- 6ABB
immediate, FC

- 4AB
delayed, SS or FC

- WR BB
delayed, QS right

- 66AB
delayed, SS or FC

- 6BBB
immediate, FC

- 3BA
immediate, FC

- [A+B] (second hit)
delayed, SS or 1B+K

- 22AA
immediate, FC

- C3 A (second hit)
slightly delayed

- 66B BE (second hit)
slightly delayed, QS left or 1B+K

- BT B+K

- AA and [A] (second hit)
immediate, FC

- 4A+BB
delayed, depending on range QS and 1B+K

- WR A+BA
immediate, FC

- 66[A] (second hit)
delayed

- 1B BE (second hit)
delayed, QS right

- 22B BE (second hit)
delayed

- 6BA
delayed, FC

- 3AA
delayed

- 66AA
immediate

- 22kAA (the second hit)
slightly delayed

- 22AA
delayed, 1B+K

- RC AB and RC AB BE
immediate or delayed (depending on Maxi releasing it delayed or not), 1B+K

- BT B+K

- 11BAB
immediate, FC

- MIST BB+K
slightly delayed, QS right

- MIST KB
immediate, FC

- WR AAA, 2KA Distorted Breeze KA
delayed (airborne opponent, only first hit connects)

- PO A:6 (second hit)
immediate, FC

- 66B BE (second hit)
immediate, FC

- AAB
immediate, FC

- 3AA
immediate

- 22AA
immediate

- 6BBB (only when delayed)
delayed, SS, 1B+K

- WR KA
immediate

- 22AA
immediate, FC

- 22A[A]
delayed, FC

- 1B BE (second hit)
immediate

- 236B BE (second hit)
delayed, QS right

- 1AA
delayed

- 4AAA
immediate

- 2BB, FC1BB and B+KB
delayed, SS or 1B+K

- 11AA (first one hits you)
immediate

- 11AA and 11A[A]
delayed, interrupt

- 66B+KAB and ASS BAB
immediate or delayed (depending on Pyrrha releasing it delayed or not), FC

- 4AAA BE (first yellow hit)
immediate

- 1AA
slightly delayed

- 4AA, 4AB and 4[A]A
slightly delayed, FC

- 4[A]B
immediate

- 6BB
immediate, 1B+K

- 2BB, FC1BB and B+KB with BE or without
delayed, SS or 1B+K

- 11AA (first one hits you)
immediate

- 11AA
delayed, interrupt

- 66B+KAB and NSS BAB
immediate or delayed (depending on Pyrrha Omega releasing it delayed or not), FC

- 6AB and Prep AB
immediate, FC

- 6BBB and Prep BBB
delayed, SS or 1B+K

- 6BB BE (first yellow hit) and Prep BB BE
delayed

- BT B+K

- AAB
slightly delayed, FC

- 22KAAB
immediate, FC

- 22kAA
immediate, FC

- SCH A (second hit)
delayed

- GS 3AA (second hit) and GS 3AA BE
slightly delayed

- JS 66AA
immediate

- JS 44AA
delayed

note that you can't counter the Orb

- 66AAB
slightly delayed, FC

- 4BAA
immediate, FC

- 66B BE (second hit)
immediate, QS right or 1B+K

- AAB
immediate, FC

- 3AB
slightly delayed, FC

- 6B+K (second hit)
immediate

- 66BBB - hit will whiff!
immediate, QS right

- 3AB and 3AB BE
immediate

- 66A BE (second hit)
delayed, SS or 1B+K

note that you can't counter E.I.N.'s attacks

- 3AA
delayed, FC

- 6B+KA
immediate, FC

- 66BA
immediate, FC

- 22BB
delayed, SS, 1B+K

- BT B+K


5. List of 1-hit-moves that can be countered on reaction

Mitsurugis 4B (cancel into Mist possible)
Xibas 4B
Xibas 4B+K (cancel into Rememberance possible)


6. 4A+BB-feint

Speed: i25
Block: +5
Hit: stun
Damage: 20, 25 with clean hit
Guard Burst Damage: breaks in 5
JG on 2nd hit: -17

Combo:
  • feint 33BB (53dmg, 56 with clean hit)
  • feint WS B BE, BT B+K, 3B (70dmg, 76 with clean hit)
Cons:
  • can be sidestepped easily in either direction even if one got hit by the first attack
  • if the first hit was blocked it can be interrupted with ~i25 moves
  • if the first hit hit it can be interrupted with ~i15 moves

Applications:
In my opinion, the feint should be used very sparingly. Otherwise you'll eat strong whiffpunishers. The fact that you can step and interrupt it easily is very obvious and even though it's a perfect move IF the opponents gets hit by it or blocks it, it's risky still. If you want to use it you have to find set-ups in which your opponent is very likely to block/get hit by it.
In a corner and/or against walls you can use the feint in 4A+B W!-combos to make your opponent block it which will likely happen if he tends to hold G during a combo.
If your opponent has an Auto-GI which he uses constantly against the second hit of 4A+B (e.g. Pyrrha's A+B), you can make them whiff with the feint.
Also, if your opponent tries to JG the second hit of 4A+B, you can use the feint to play against his rhythm and make him block it.


- Discuss, add, comment please. This shouldn't be a "Kalas-tells-you-something-thread", but a collection of a lot of different sorts of advice. :)
 
Awesome job, Kalas! This will become a VERY useful part of Leixia's game at high level play. Being able to simply shut down some of your opponent's best combos is absolutely terrifying, coming from a character as fast and safe as Leixia.

I referenced this thread in my frame trap guide, hopefully that'll steer a few extra people your way.
 
Thanks Seditious! :)

I added "3.2. other applications" for setups to counter 2A's and AA's.

And once again, everybody is free to give his or her opinion and 4A+B. It's not necessarrily supposed to end up as a Kalas-only-thread, lol.
 
The move is quite solid when used right, but I don't like how easy it is to interrupt and step it. The bB feint cancel on it also has notorious hitbox issues in certain circumstances, namely outright whiffing on characters standing right in front of it.

Online, the move becomes even more difficult to use for aGI due to reaction delay, as well as opponents who use the move you predicted, but were slow on their reactions can cause the aGI to whiff before their (unintentionally) delayed attack comes out.
 
Yes it can be stepped very easily. That's why I would never use it outside of closerange or as a 'mix-up-tool'.
And the A+BB feint is bad, too. If you make your opponent block this one, he is either afraid as hell of your Leixia or just bad.
At least you can't step or interrupt the normal 4A+B. Only JG and GI possible.

You're right about the online aspect, but I won't take online into consideration for the information of the first post.
 
Good stuff Kalas.

A couple of things:

"Active window: 3-7
Counters: all high, mid and s-mid horizontals + all high and mid vertical stabs"

It counters mid and high horizontal and stab attacks but not kicks. Saying S-Mid is superfluous really. Anything that aGIs mids will always GI S-Mid and S-Low (generic 2As are S-Low).

There are some High attacks I would recommend using it against, such as Maxi's 1B A K, which he is likely to do near a wall or edge. But generally you would be better off crouching and doing FC 3B I think. It is easier, gets you at least 55 damage, and often more if you get your opponent on CH or from the sides (which you often will during a string).
 
Age_of_Truth said:
snip
Click to expand...

You're right about that S-Mid stuff. It's a typo actually, I meant to write S-Low (for 2A's). But let us not nit-pick about that one. :)
I will add the idea of going for FC3B in some situations later but mainly because one is generally more used to do it. FC 3B is 55dmg and good RO, but you don't have a wake-up situation afterwards iirc.

I'm looking forward to play your *insert random main of yours* saturday!
 
I do love that 4A+B is back as it was my favourite attack in all of SCIV. I'll add some suggestions on top of the Maxi one at some point.

Kalas said:
I'm looking forward to play your *insert random main of yours* saturday!
Click to expand...

Nothing random about it sir! My mains are Leixia, Natsu, Tira and Nightmare. I also play Ivy, Asta, Sieg, Viola, Hilde, and of course Elysium with varying degrees of success. Of the remaining characters, I can only spam obvious stuff with the easier-to-use ones.
 
Thx for making this Kalas! :sc5lei1: makes wanna use it, because i haven't liked the move before. But it definetly sound very good move for noob like me. :D
 
I don't know if there's much more to contribute to the lists themselves, but a couple things about the 4A+B,B feint. It's decent against players who know to GI the 2nd hit of 4A+B, (kinda like the SXS feint from SC4), but... that's about all it's good for in open space.

I did find a use for it in wall combos. If you do, for example, 4K W! AA(BE), 3B W!, you'd normally do 4A+B to keep the combo up. But if you use 4A+BB, the first part will hit, and, (since they will likely be holding guard throughout the combo), they'll be forced to block the feint... of course, resulting in advantage for Lexy. (as well as a 7th of their guard gauge lost) So it kinda traps them in the corner and forces them to act.
 
Situational, but I started using it against my friend's Pyrrah who was trying to frame-trap me after 4B with 236B. The timing was easy enough once I knew he was going to do it, and 4A+B CE is a good way to discourage those non-punishment stabs.
 
This move is more important since FC 3B nerf as an anti-high. Especially as 4A+B CE doesn't get scaled too badly at all.
 
Well, 4A+B is her strongest NC without meter now, so it's even more useful.
I will update the first post with your information when I have the time (probably in one week).
 
I updated the first post a little.
After the patch, 4A+B CE does 97 instead of 92 and 4A+B CE CE does 157 instead of 148dmg. Woohoo!

Also, I added another category for 1-hit moves that you can GI on reaction. (such as Xibas 4B+K which ShinjiUrahara contributed).
Feel free to add other moves as long as they can be reacted to. So no 'Hey just 4A+B Pyrrha's stab' please.

Also, I will add information concercing the B-feint later.

EDIT: Information concerning the B-feint added.
 
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