Ban Hilde

Ban Hilde.

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sWoRD_LoRD said:
With all these ban topics, it's always the people who use the character in question (JOP, Ciernian, Tiamat) or random scrubs/noobs (Tiamat) who are adament against banning. Anybody who witnesses the heinous gayness first hand is all about the ban. Everyone except Chacha who has warped opinions and Oofmatic, the guy who loved glitching and cheating people in sc3 with Lizardman and calling it fair.

If you think the game would be better if they patched Hilde, then why wait for it? What would you like for them to do with a patch? Change the ringout distance?, Lessen her damage output?, Both?

I say either ban Hilde's relaunch or lock all Hilde tourney matches in at one or two walled stages. There is no reason to ban a character, just fix the root problem. It's not Hilde, it's her damage/RO ability, so we should have a communal consensus to standardize tournaments with rules to maintain balance....NOW
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i dont play hilde and i support keeping her legal. i dont believe any character should be banned unless it is deemed that they break the game 100%. i dont see any akuma's running around in sc4.

And all of you guys trying to ban certain aspects of a character: get real. That doesnt work. All or nothing.
 
hteng said:
namco only patches stuff if it's overly abused, since this game has no arcade version yet, the best place now is from local tournaments and online, yes abuse her as much as possible, when people start making noises or start leaving, then there might be a possibility that she'll be patch.
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So far this quote and the immediate unbanning of every character makes the most sense. Lets make this shitty game a free for all of cheesiness lol until they inevitably patch. When the patch comes is what im worried about!!! Looks like im picking up hilde >< .............im going online and annoying everybody with her too lol its gonna be greatttttt

oh and this post is pretty good too

rickstah said:
Tekken 6 is an amazing game.
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Jesus freakin Christ...

Sigh. Cedric, maybe you should stop pwning people all the time. Seriously.

__________

That said, I agree with 90% of what aris said back a couple of pages. Hilde simply is an annoying character to beat, and you basically have to turtle to beat her. That's the point.

But, I think some people are forgetting that we can't ban a character on the grounds of "not being fun".

The main thing here that is even giving rise to this question is her risk/reward ratio (qualitative) and her ringout range (quantitative). I think most people already agree on her risk/reward ratio being skewed heavily to her favor, so all that's left is a quantitative analysis before we actually have something to go on...

... meaning; how strong is her ringout in terms of range? Some people are saying she can ring out from center for a whole lot more stages than what I remember; thus I'm skeptical. We have to either back up this idea of her combos being "instant win" or dismiss it as an exaggeration.

Also; how fast is her ringout charges in comparison to other similar character's distance ringouts? Ivy comes to mind with her WP 22_88B. Astaroth with his just throws, etc.

In short: WE NEED SOME HARD DATA HERE PEOPLE. Otherwise, this is all talk, and talk is cheap.

Once Wu gets back to Norcal, or if Cedric is willing the next time we meet, then we can effing test shit out if this thread still persists.
 
sWoRD_LoRD said:
With all these ban topics, it's always the people who use the character in question (JOP, Ciernian, Tiamat) or random scrubs/noobs (Tiamat) who are adament against banning. Anybody who witnesses the heinous gayness first hand is all about the ban. Everyone except Chacha who has warped opinions and Oofmatic, the guy who loved glitching and cheating people in sc3 with Lizardman and calling it fair.
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Wow, if that's not a call out, I don't know what is. Again, .

sWoRD_LoRD said:
If you think the game would be better if they patched Hilde, then why wait for it?
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Because it's Namco's game. I'm of the opinion that it's Namco's job to balance their game, not the job of the community. If they don't bother to do it, it just shows how much they care about their own product and the community of that product.

sWoRD_LoRD said:
What would you like for them to do with a patch? Change the ringout distance?, Lessen her damage output?, Both?
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From what I understand (from what I've read), the C2BB relauncher is the issue. So patch C2BB so that it doesn't relaunch?
 
Sora said:
In short: WE NEED SOME HARD DATA HERE PEOPLE. Otherwise, this is all talk, and talk is cheap.
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Speaking of hard data, I really want to know what a player like Ceirnian's average deahtcombo > RO ratio is in matches. People keep saying "you get hit once and you die" which is true...sometimes, not all the time. You can think of it like she has a certain % chance of her charged moves yielding a win on hit. I wonder what the rough % is though.
 
Tiamat said:
Speaking of hard data, I really want to know what a player like Ceirnian's average deahtcombo > RO ratio is in matches. People keep saying "you get hit once and you die" which is true...sometimes, not all the time. You can think of it like she has a certain % chance of her charged moves yielding a win on hit. I wonder what the rough % is though.
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That's a start. Finding a number like this would require getting the approximate distance Hilde needs to ringout from both C3B and C3A. Then, just measure the entire area of a stage; compare it to the areas of all other changes, take the average length of a stage and divide it from the original distances measured. You would then get a ratio.

It''s not hard science, but it is math that we can measure. That final number will be the % chance of getting rung out on average when hit by C3B/C3A respectively.
 
no I am not thinking of that, I am thinking of what it would be like if you looked through all Ceirnian's videos and tallied up for every deathcombo starting move that hits, how often do they get RO from it. this way you wouldn't have to take into account the stages or anything because it's from random samples anyway
 
Tiamat said:
no I am not thinking of that, I am thinking of what it would be like if you looked through all Ceirnian's videos and tallied up for every deathcombo starting move that hits, how often do they get RO from it. this way you wouldn't have to take into account the stages or anything because it's from random samples anyway
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It wouldn't be purely random; seeing that videos are taken only optionally, and usually only during the latter stages of tournaments where people actually already have an idea of how to fight Hilde, or have the necessary skills to adjust.

... which wouldn't be a bad thing I guess. If it turns out the number is low, then it means that it is humanly possible to adjust to a Hilde with considerable success. If it turns out high, then it means that Hilde is actually breaking through even the tried and true SC4 players.
 
I dont even play hilde but ive vs'ed my fair share. it just comes down to knowing your opponents character. if i get rung out by the death combo then its my own fault for now blocking the initial attack the initiates it. it doesnt even always ro from everywhere and the only real thing she has that could be labelled as unfair is the relauncher. but THATS HOW THE GAME IS.

the way we made it fair in the tourney i went to is that you can only use 4 buttons, g, a, b, k. there is no mapping buttons for A+B, etc etc. obviously everyone used a stick. hilde is a lot more powerful when you can map extra buttons, because she can charge moves wilst doing normal attacks. personally i loved the change, there was no banning of characters either. the way it should be.

unless the character has an infinite combo there is no reason for the ban stick. hildes ro combo is not infinite.

you are ruining the game for yourselves, this is what you all sound like "omg i got rung out from the center of the stage, hacks! ban ban ban ban, fuck working out how to stop it, ill just ban it instead" and alienate a group of players from playing their main character then at tourneys basking in your awsomeness of winning when you only vs'ed half the cast and of those players at least half had to play a character that isnt their main cause you banned them. lame.
 
Ljkabookie said:
the way we made it fair in the tourney i went to is that you can only use 4 buttons, g, a, b, k. there is no mapping buttons for A+B, etc etc. obviously everyone used a stick. hilde is a lot more powerful when you can map extra buttons, because she can charge moves wilst doing normal attacks. personally i loved the change, there was no banning of characters either. the way it should be.
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The button binding rule sounds like a decent idea. I believe Eddy Pistons suggested it in flashchat that it would definitely balance things out.

Sure, the combos are still accessable, but they would require more input skill and it'll prevent regular moves from being used while charging.
 
aris said:
I just realised why you annoy me so much. It must be my innability to deal with new things that you told me about. I hope for your sake we never meet.
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ya, hope you never meet or he's going to beat you up and take your lunch money!

in fact, ban or patch hilde or he might beat us ALL up!
 
I saw the videos on Youtube. Ceirn's Hilde is good, but not completely fucking unbeatable. I was originally expecting him to flawlessly get a hundred doom combos off the edge in a row, but when I actually saw it for myself, it was nothing like that. I think people are just upset because they lost.
 
BLDave said:
ya, hope you never meet or he's going to beat you up and take your lunch money!

in fact, ban or patch hilde or he might beat us ALL up!
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You don't know who you're messing with. Just back the f'up right not. RIGHT NOT, YO. For your sake...
 
does anybody know how other regions are dealing with Hilde? How well does she do in Japan, Korea, etc.?
 
Thats up to you guys. I for one don't need to bind buttons. A,B,K and G are good enough for me. I'm use to Tekken where binding was banned for the longest.
 
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