Coming from SSF4AE - need help with mechanics

Z

Zidiane

[08] Mercenary
Like the title implies, this is my first Soul Calibur game. My first 3D fighting game, for that matter. So, I'll get right to the things that are slipping me up.

How am I supposed to tell when my opponent stops attacking? I suppose it sounds rather simple, but I'm having a difficult time telling when my opponent is finished with his string. It felt much easier to tell in SF4, but in this game I often try to counter attack to early, earning a sword to the face.

Does sidestepping actually WORK? I do it often, on verticle attacks, and still get hit.

How can I tell when to block Standing or Crouching? The whole "Mid attacks hit when crouching" was screwing me up for a long time, but I'm starting to stop trying to block rising attacks with crouch block. But, sometimes thing look like their hitting mid, or low, but they don't. And then there are the tricky moves that hit low out of no where, or come high but hit low, or vice versa. Do I just have to learn what every character attacks like, or are there ques?
 
In 3D fighters, primary gurd is standing, crouching is rarely justified in overall risk/reward.
Sidestepping does work, but it depends on how much disadvantage you're at.
Everything else is learned in the lab and yes, you are expected to recognise all the attacks in the game and act accordingly depending on whether they hit or were blocked or whatever.

Welcome to 3D fighters!
 
So, like, in SF4 attacks come at you instantly, there is no delay, but here there is. I have to learn every move of every character to know when their attack string isn't stoping, but is, in fact, just a little slow? Hmm... I'm tempted to return this for Naruto Generations. How long would it take for someone like me to learn enough to be able to block everything? Not, like, EVERYTHING, but to know enough to not let go of the Gaurd button (Something esle that is still tripping me up) mid attack?
 
So is there literally no better advice I can be given other than "Learn every move and every combo for every charavter in the game on your own, it will take an unknowable amount of time"? Is there anyone else here that's a bit more helpful to new players, or is "Welcome to 3D fighters" the best everyone gets?
 
If you want to know what every attack looks like then seeing every attack for yourself is a pretty good way of doing that. One of the best, in fact.

If you want to be able to block every attack in the game on reaction without having seen any of them before then I guess you could find a way to artificially boost the human nervous system so that your reaction time can be improved to the point where that's viable.

Or you could just play the game for a few hours and eventually learn to recognize most moves done by most characters, like people have been doing in every fighting game since the dawn of time.

If you're so violently apposed to actually learning the game then learn the players instead. Apply yourself to recognizing mixups instead of exact attacks. What would your opponent do in this situation? A mid? A low? How are you responding to their attacks? Are you stepping a lot? Are they going to throw out a horizontal? Are you blocking too much? Do they want to throw you? Many players in many situations will be thinking along the lines of mid/low/throw and horizontal/vertical more than just string A/string B. As long as you can block slow lows on reaction and break most throws then you'll do well enough once you figure out the movement.
 
In the few other fighting games I've played, combos had a rythm. If they stop for a period of time that was longer than the beat of that rythm, that means it's not a combo anymore and you can either begin your counter attack or block. You didn't have to go and learn what every move looked like and be able to recognize it instantly. What I am asking is not "Is there some way I can avoid learning the game", but "Do combos have a rythm I can adjust myself to so I can enjoyy the game without being frustrated because I thought their attack was finished." I've had about 200 matches, a 35% win ratio, and I can't find any rythm. Is there something like that, or do I have to learn everything in the game? That I can't find a rythm (combined with my inability to sidestep) is ruining my defense, so am I just missing it, or does it not exist?
 
I know how to play mind games. I know how to watch my opponent. I know when my opponent falls into a pattern. I've been playing online for quite a while, but getting hit by something I know I should be blocking throws me off, and ruins the entire round. and it happens every other round.
 
If you are good at other fighters why don't you use the parry system to gain frame advantage? I mean, it seems to me like you can play SC5 in many different styles.
 
You are typing words and that's about it. Your points are nonsensical so it's difficult to give advice.

Combos have the exact same rhythm in Soulcalibur as they do in every other fighting game. If you're getting hit by one and it's actually a combo you can't do anything. That's why it's a combo. That's the definition of combo.

For attack strings, or canned combos, you're going to need to learn them. That's all there is to it. How you expect to be able to deal with attacks without learning them is beyond the scope of any fighting game thread.


You didn't have to go and learn what every move looked like and be able to recognize it instantly.
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So you instantly recognize moves in other fighting games without ever having seen them before? Good for you.

Do you expect to be able to block crossups without knowing which attacks cross up? Do you expect to never fall for a frame trap without knowing which moves give enough frame advantage to cause one? Do you expect to escape block strings and tick throw attempts without even knowing what a character's block strings are?

I've been playing online for quite a while, but getting hit by something I know I should be blocking throws me off, and ruins the entire round. and it happens every other round.
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Except somehow you also get hit by moves you know you should be blocking? How do you know you should be blocking them? Because you know how to block them? Or because you know that a normal player would be able to block them? Because they're really slow and obvious? Because your opponent is telegraphing them like it's 1875? If you should be able to block them then why aren't you? And whose fault is it?

If you've played 200 matches and still don't recognize basic strings for even a few characters then maybe you should trade the game in. If you recognize them for some characters but not others then congratulations, you're making progress and if you keep at it you'll keep getting better.

How you choose to respond to the strings once you recognize them is up to you. The rule is not step everything all of the time. Step is really unsafe. You step things when it's appropriate to step them. You block things when it's appropriate to block them. You duck things when you should be doing that. And so on.[/QUOTE]
 
My words aren't making sense because I'm probably not using the right technical terms. I'm not using the right terms because I avoid interacting with the community, because this is what happens everytime I ask for assistance.

In SF, there were 3 basic attacks. Normal, overhead, and low. Stand or crouch to block normal, stand to block overhead, crouch to block low. If they jump, stand. if they crouch, crouch. It was universal. So there was no need to intricately know every characters entire moveset. At least not to casually play (Anyone who isn't an A rank in SF), like I'm trying to.

I know I should be blocking the things I'm getting hit by because I block the first hit, and only eat metal because I mistakenly believe the string of moves is done when it's not. so I let go of the block button and the next move lands before my character can start a counter attack.

But it doesn't matter. Don't bother writing anything, I'll either keep playing, or I won't (I was kidding with that first trading it in comment).
 
Zidiane said:
*snip*
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Pocky Yoshi says bye and isn't pleased to meet you.

Joking aside, it's best to start from the ground up. Sure knowledge from other fighters helps with learning other fighting games. The only nitpick is they're not the same.

Before we talk mechanics only to get shot down, why not start learning the basics?


My beef is this: why try to aim for an impossible goal like get good overnight?

None of the SSFIV hardcore players got good overnight(unless they have some mystical mind of power or something).


So instead, worry about learning the basics over again and build yourself one baby step at a time. That way, you won't overwhelm yourself. Don't worry about mechanic talks first, worry about the basic "I want to get better stuff".


That aside, tell us more about yourself? Pocky Yoshi demands it or he'll pout.
 
I'm sorry, because I probably wasn't articulating myself properly, but I'm trying to ask about the basics of defending in this game. I know block crouching or jump low attacks, Duck High and grabs, tech grabs with the button they used, stand block mids. But there are wierd things, like sometimes I block low attacks standing, or mid attacks crouching, and I sidestep but never dodge anything. Help there would help.

And, because I feel bad when people pout, I'll tell you a bit about myself. I've been playing fighting games seriously since 2008(SF4), and have played BlazBlue, MK9, MvC3, and every iteration of the SF4 series. I've played SF4 the most, probably 2-3 thousand hours total online with that series alone, but I've never met any other fighters in person, and don't frequent any forums. I main Dan, got him to B rank, number 75 on the dan leaderboard before this game came out. I'm a fan of Skullgirls, and was a tiny bit dissapointed with SFXT's roster (Elena, Sean, Sakura, Karin, Bryan Fury, Dragonuv,Jack)
 
You either learn every character or just play against every character and get used to the fact that you going to lose the majority of your games until you do start recognizing the moves. The best bet is to do both.

I think your major problem is in SF4, most specials were unsafe, if someone whiffed an uppercut, you could go make a sandwich and then punish. Or most block strings are universal usually ending in something that is slightly unsafe if playing good players, or unsafe allowing you to attack back.

Again 3D fighters are not like that, every character has their own way of doing things, almost nothing is universal.

As for you saying you block lows standings, there are certain moves that look like a low but can be block either standing or ducking, usually these of most people's 2A, again this is all just the general knowledge you need to learn if you want to get good.

This is what I do for my very basic practice against other characters, pick one character a day, take that character into training and do all of it's move, you are not going to remember them all, but it will give you a feel for what they do, then take your main character and have the computer perform the other characters moves and learn how to block, GI side step, JG and punish. This should only take about an 30-90 minutes really, leaving you with plenty of time to work on your main and get some games. This isn't going to make you a pro at beating that character but it's a nice start.
 
Stand holding guard while buffering a throw break is primary defence.
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alright, so I see a grab coming. I hold guard while trying to tech it with either A or B? What does that do? It sounds like I'd throw out a grab if the miss instead of an A or B attack: Is that right?
 
pick one character a day, take that character into training and do all of it's move, you are not going to remember them all, but it will give you a feel for what they do, then take your main character and have the computer perform the other characters moves and learn how to block, GI side step, JG and punish. This should only take about an 30-90 minutes really,
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Not sure if I'm ready to JG anything, but this sounds like a start.
there are certain moves that look like a low but can be block either standing or ducking
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And how do I know when I'm training which moves do this?
 
No - if you hold guard and mash either A or B, you buffer in a grapple break but are locked in guard.
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I thought if I didn't hit the button they used, then I don't break the grab?
 
As a general rule:
Low pokes are negative frames on hit, low damage, unsafe on block and not blockable on reaction. More powerful lows are typically blockable on reaction but unsafe on block.
Mids are the most powerful attacks in the game, they deal the most damage and generally have multiple properties such as tracking. Highs are normally step catchers and are generally not duckable on reaction. Throws are not ducked on reaction and the opponent gets a 50:50 GUESS if it connects which even if they guess right still deals damage.
As such, the strongest fundamental offence is to mixup throws with mids.
To be able to defend in this game you need to be able to break throws on reaction and ducking egularly is almost never a good idea. Throws are better here than in 2D fighters - even if you input a throw break properly on reaction, it is always a mindgame. Read this article:
here

Now please just learn the game. =P
 
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