Controlling Step

Fendante said:
Thanks for the advice Kowtow. Yup...a key strategy is to move with them.
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Just movement in general, really. And not just with Raph, either. I've noticed a lot of players more concerned with what move to use, when they're not even in a position to be doing any moves in the first place. Focus on creating favorable situations with your movement first, then worry about what moves you want to use.
 
piggy said:
How can he "control" step? He can almost scrape by "minimizing the bleeding" against step, but certainly can't "control" it by any sense of the word. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, I suppose - how are you controlling the step game?
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3A, AA, 33A, 22A
 
KowtowRobinson said:
Just movement in general, really. And not just with Raph, either. I've noticed a lot of players more concerned with what move to use, when they're not even in a position to be doing any moves in the first place. Focus on creating favorable situations with your movement first, then worry about what moves you want to use.
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In general practice against someone who understands Raph (or RALPH as people call him), your hunting for the right situation is near impossible, and when it is, you're going to land something barely scraping double digits, unless your opponent is just playing unsafe. How to beat Raph even easier? Get a fair HP lead and turtle the clock; make Raph come to you, don't give him a chance to whiff pusish, etc.

Let's say you predict a step correctly, and 4K and hit them for minor damage, they step again, you predict it again, and 4K for minor damage, you predict it again (why not) and they crush your high and slam you for 60+ damage. Risk vs reward; do the math. Raph needs better anti-step tools. 6K should be mid and track, with it's very little reward. 3A should be either unsafe or high negative like -10 or -11, and stun on NH into combo, and have a meter follow-up thats also unsafe but rings out maybe (just some sort of follow-up can keep them honest on punishing it if blocked).

I will say however, as far as positioning, 3(B)~Prep may not track, but delaying these kind of moves will align to the 8WR. I'm only still winning some matches with Raph because of this. My step predict means G for 0.5 seconds then 3(B)~Prep, etc.
 
You just gotta rig the system and use everything from moving with the opponent to good reactions in order to get the better, more linear stuff out. It's not great, but it's what you got. Keep practicing and testing because raph is not a first day, first week, or even a first month character.
 
Even if they choose to buff him it won't change his game on any fundamental level. He's always going to need a lot of situational poking/movement/counter-hitting and he's going to have to do it very well. He's clearly not designed to exert simple basic control over the opponent but rather think two steps ahead in order to create openings.
 
He has good techniques? :-p

Still a lot of time (since I'm bailing on this weekend's tournament) but, it does seem that a "real" character will be necessary.
 
Two words - Crimson Moon. Most adversaries have a favorite direction that they like to step in more than the other. Anticipate, counter.
 
Von_Blackhardt said:
Two words - Crimson Moon. Most adversaries have a favorite direction that they like to step in more than the other. Anticipate, counter.
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I've landed this move more in 2 days of online SC5 than 3+ years of SC4.

Maybe there are more scrubs, but its possible to connect with 2_8B+K if they're outside 2A range.
Granted, the risk is probably not worth it.. seeing as how everyone else in the cast has INSANE combos that will punish whiffs so you probably want to think twice before committing to something as risky (and cocky looking lol).
 
safe TCing mid launcher into safe TCing mid launcher into safe TCing mid launcher is annoying from the opponent. Have to back track to force them to whiff, but then they know that their move is now + on block effective and will rush you down.
 
I did a bunch of testing and here is what I found.

When the opponent steps to YOUR LEFT:
1K hits well A hits well, 2A hits well, 8A+B hits well, 4K can be stepped, 8K can be stepped 3A can be stepped.

With opponent stepping to YOUR RIGHT:
2A hits well, 8A+B hits well, 4K hits well, 3A hits well, 1K gets stepped, 8K gets stepped, A gets stepped (but AA will hit, but can be TC'd).
 
I think raph's biggest problem is the lack of step controlling moves that aren't high. 3a and 2a always hit but you have to be point blank. Theres 33B but it's i22. and -16 on block so its hard to incorporate for me.

I'm having an insane amount of trouble against pyrra. Her 88B is just too good in this match up, you can quick step into it which makes much of raph's moves whiff AND it crushes high. The one move people aren't able to track well is 33kb but it's -16 so she gets a free stab. If anyone has some advice for controlling step in this match up I'd appreciate it.
 
I'm curious though, what is the best you can against pyrrha when she whiffs her 88B ? 33KB ? or run under her and 8A+B into an air combo ? I also found that move annoying but due to its limited range it maybe most prudent to step backwards and react, as opposed to trying to shut her down hard with raph's infamously lacking verticals.
 
3A doesn't always hit, you can step it to Raph's left, but 2A does always hits. I played for a long, long time against Pyrra yesterday, and this is a hard matchup. 2A is good, B+K, and 8A+B at the right times is a lifesaver. Pyrra should really only use 88B as guaranteed damage, though, I thought? -18 is pretty bad...
 
Well if she finishes her 88B you can run under and grab for good damage. But if the player is smart they'll most likely only do the uppercut which is -18. So you can get 3b~ab for some ok damage.

But thanks i'll try stepping away. The only problem is back step opens up stab opportunities for her but I guess its a mix up both ways.
 
Majin_Acolyte said:
But thanks i'll try stepping away. The only problem is back step opens up stab opportunities for her but I guess its a mix up both ways.
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Really ? I think you have enough time for a quick step backwards before you tap guard. Obviously QSing should defeat both options but gets you closer and closer to pyrrha which may not be what you want. Sometimes you have to think outside the box as opposed to move X cleanly beating move Y. Let us know if it works out for you i'm curious.
 
HolyForce said:
In general practice against someone who understands Raph (or RALPH as people call him)
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Are you suggesting my level of competition is causing me to give uninformed opinions? Ask Mandritti about some of the players I've tested my Raph against this past weekend, lol. ;) Won some, lost some, but never did I feel like "omg Raph cannot handle this character/player." Toronto just has very strong competition, and I had good matches with a lot of them. Trust me guys, Raph can compete in this game.

Also I didn't even consider 2_8 B+K, I'll have to try that out now that step guard is nerfed lol. What's his best damage off this? Or do you just mixup afterwards?
 
3(B)~PrepBBB followup after that.

The move seems to be much better against 8wr than SC4. QS.. for some reason they seem to stop just short of getting hit. And i'm talking about at range between 3K and AA. I dont' recall the frame setup, but thats a more detialed study for a later date
 
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