Dampierre's "stances"

LeBello

LeBello

[08] Mercenary
I REALLY liked Dampierre in Broken Destiny, but didn't get too far in learning to play as him. Now that he's in SCV however, I'd definitely like to have him as one of my better characters (as difficult as that may be). I've been doing alright online as him, but I think I can probably attribute that more to the fact that 99% of the players I come across probably haven't played Broken Destiny or had the pre-order code, and knew absolutely nothing about how to deal with him.

One thing I don't think I quite understand 100% yet are his stances, and how several of his attacks can randomly transition into them. For example, although occasionally tripping during the 623b can actually save me from a sweep or certain attacks that would have gotten me had it not happened, most of the time it seems to give the opponent a great opportunity to get in some free hits. I'm pretty familiar with what you can do once you're in his stance, but I guess the problem for me in this case is the period of vulnerability before that.

Are we simply supposed to know when to take a risk with attacks such as these? I feel that the better "combos" and tech traps I currently know involve some attacks that have the random element in it (623B, A+B, 66B, 66K, etc.), and I think that not relying on them at all severely reduces his damage potential?

But regardless, Dampierre is just such a hilarious character that I don't mind if I die due to the tripping... about half my losses with him online were due to something like 623B "failing"at JUST the wrong time, but I don't think I've ever been frustrated when I play as him. :o


EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to include 66B/66K in the examples of the moves with the "random" element, since the stances activate in certain ways depending on whether your attack whiffed, landed or got blocked.

On the other hand, going a little more in-depth with the A+B random, if it doesn't activate it seems to be a fairly safe move (and one I would like a lot considering the start-up is quick as well)... but if the random does activate, you become a sitting (spinning) target on block, or lose your ability to follow up on hit.
 
from my experience with dampierre, i'd say he's definitely better when you can react on the spot. this is because of the random qualities of his attacks. so being able to spot when your in a "stance" is key. this randomness is great because the opponent cannot plan for it. they can try, but they'll only know what's going on just when you are too.

if you want your questions answered by a more experienced dampierre, then ask oofmatic, that's his thing
 
You guys pretty much covered the jist of it.

Stances can save you but against someone who is experienced against Dampierre it will be extremely risky. While his random stance transitions rely on your reactions, if your opponent also has good reactions they can punish you for it, since most of his stance transitions are actually pretty unsafe.

The worst part is against an opponent who can fuzzy jump guard, his PB B/throw mixups become obsolete.
 
I was messing around with Dampierre to see if the "random" effects he gets for some of his moves were really random. What I found was that the "random" effects correspond to the game clock during a match. Different timings between seconds give certain move effects.
 
Somebody said:
I was messing around with Dampierre to see if the "random" effects he gets for some of his moves were really random. What I found was that the "random" effects correspond to the game clock during a match. Different timings between seconds give certain move effects.
Click to expand...
That's a huge deal if it's true. Somehow I doubt it's true because it truly is random based on training mode, since training mode doesn't have a timer, and in there his moves come out randomly. In SC4 Yoshimitsu had clock moves, and in the training mode since it had no timer the same move would come out instead of randomly. Also starting the round with a move like A+B would have consistent results if it was based on the timer.

Can you explain your methods to test this, as well as which moves you believe are timer related?
 
I played with Yoshimitsu in SC4 and kew about Iron Fist Possession, that's where I got the idea to try the same thing with Dampierre. I first tried out A+B to get the move without going into stun/poker bluff in versus and found that when the move with timed at the start of a new second, Dampierre does not go into stun; like timing the command just when 59 changes to 58. This exploit seems to apply to all of Dampierre's moves with "random" effects but the timing differs slightly for some effects. For Dampierre's sneeze, his quick sneeze has some weird timing a little less than half a second between seconds; like instead of timing the command right when 59 changes to 58, you time it when 59 clearly has already changed to 58 (kind of difficult to explain the timing but whereas the A+B command was inputed at the start of a new second, the quick sneeze needs to be inputed a little after the start of a new second. I'm not 100% sure on the exact timings though, so I would try this out in versus and see if you get the same or similar results.
 
OOFMATIC said:
Somehow I doubt it's true because it truly is random based on training mode, since training mode doesn't have a timer, and in there his moves come out randomly.
Click to expand...

This isn't necessarily true. It could depend on whether they're seeding from the round timer, or some internal one.
 
Well I've tried testing it with the timer and I haven't been getting consistent results. I wasn't too convinced initially either since it specifically says "random" in his movelist. Somehow I don't see Project Soul purposefully misleading us like that.
 
I don't know, maybe the window to time is just really small, but it just doesn't seem all that random to me.
 
Only thing I know for certain about Dampierre's randomness is that his CE's damage isn't random, but based on how much health his has left (less health = more damage).

While I cannot say for certain. It seems that Dampierre's random stance activation might be based on the number of button presses from certain moves (or lack thereof). Something like tapping 1K and then tapping K repeatedly during the animation would go into Fake Pain. But just tapping 1K and no other button presses, he doesn't transition. However, I don't think this is true, and I think we need several people to try and confirm this.
 
I know mashing helps for some of his grabs, but his A+B is definitely not random as far as I can tell; I've done it almost everytime for several matches, but the command is somewhere near the end of a second even though the move looks like it comes out at the start of a new second. However, would be helpful if someone else could confirm this.
 
So. Can we compile a list of "Advantageous" stance positions? Situations where you can force the opponent to block the mixup? Situations like falling into Poker Bluff FT at anything but point blank is useless. Even when you do, "Care for Some Qahwah?" (PB ~K) feels like a gimmick since it's mad punishable on block, and being hit puts you into a regular grounded state.

The best situation I can see is after "Lord Dampierre" AKA. Flying Headbutt. While this thing can leave you in a pretty fiddly position if it comes out point-blank, on contact they end up having to block a Poker Bluff HT mixup. I'm trying to work 44K and 44K+BE into close-range shenanigans. The frame advantage on 44K seems useful as well (There's frame advantage, right?)

Certain PB mixups are more consistent and advantageous if you end up with your opponent next to a wall or stage edge. They can't get away. This usually includes PB situations where you have a bit a frame advantage, but would normally be too far away to do anything (After PB~B, for instance).

You can get into a nice position trying for the Hat-Trick combo. Falling on your face after a successful 623B stun puts you in a nice spot in most cases.

I don't like the positioning you get from a successful PB~B or PB~A+G/B+G. Backroll kills any follow up. Chasing after an opponent by stalling PB deactivation with A+B/B+G, B or K is a bit too dangerous to be considered legit. You can recover from the ground at what looks to be neutral frames, which doesn't give me much incentive to really go after PB shenanigans.

6B into 11KK~PB isn't advantageous, but they may have a hard time reacting to it if you're using 6B into other attacks.

11KK~PB, the two-hit version, alone is advantageous if they don't AC backwards. The one-hit version, which seems to be more rare, seems to put you in an advantageous position. Edit: Nevermind, this really isn't. Most characters have an automatic answer to this move.

A+B~PB is not advantageous. Leaves you neutral and far away. Cool Dapper Points for the Spin-a-Roony, though.

Premature B!E!~PB puts you in a PB FT state on hit. I'm not a fan, though. Your opponent is standing and you're in PB FT.

22/88KK puts you into a great spot if you get the Lord Dampierre follow up on hit. 22/88KK isn't a bad move either.

As for Fake Pain. It's not really useful in discussing. If you didn't connect 1K on hit, you're too unsafe for mixups to be of any use (The opponent can just smack you. He has an eternity to do so). PB positioning after a properly spaced FP~B ("Rise, Mechanized God!") is pretty boss, though.
 
Dampierre's moveset is definitely not random; I took two PS3 controllers of the same model and got the commands to be inputed at exactly the same time and got identical results no matter which "random" move I used for both players. E.g., same exact sneeze results for both players at exactly the same time; both players are hit each other at the same time. The only catch is, you'd have to time tenths of a second to figure out the exact timing for certain outcomes.
 
I have a theory about this. My understanding is that the game doesn't actually save "footage" when saving replays, but rather saves character placements in both time and space as well as all inputs that were made by the players. And when the replay gets played back the game just plays out the match using the saved inputs and positioning.

Therfore if his random elements were truly random, we would have replays that wouldn't match with what actually happened. So to work around this they simulated randomness by having it based on the milliseconds of an internal timer.

Now if this is the case then doing something like A+B or B+K at the earliest possible moment at the start of a round would lead to consistent results, unless they made it so that the internal timer has different start times every round. If it's the former then we should be able to find precise seconds within a match where we can land the i23 version of B+K. If it's the latter then it would be pretty much out of our control, and we might as well just consider it random even though we know that it's a "controlled random".
 
Well, if the timing in between each second for his moves are always the same and the same for every second, there might be a practical way to apply this.
 
I can get semi-consistent results with using B+K (my best is 6 times in a row) and very consistent results with A+B so long as the moves input is within about a tenth of a second before the en of each second. As for the B+G grab, the close the input is to the end of the second the closer you'll be to getting the full 80 dmg.
 
My suggestion, if you want to further evalute Dampierre, is to practice the supposed "random" commands in verses matches with an appropiate timer synched to your game, either on SCV or SC:BD.
 
I just purchased LeBello yesterday so I am relatively new to him but I plan on making him one of my subs. How do you extend the grab where he pummels the shit out of your face? I've seen some people throw like 569 punches (exaggerating) but I can only throw like two.
 
The_Inexistent said:
I just purchased LeBello yesterday so I am relatively new to him but I plan on making him one of my subs. How do you extend the grab where he pummels the shit out of your face? I've seen some people throw like 569 punches (exaggerating) but I can only throw like two.
Click to expand...

His grab is similar in the case of both Patroklos' and Yoda's 66B+G command grab, once you grab them, you have to MASH EVERYTHING to get the most damage and the possibility of landing the ending of the grab.

Simply, MASH ALL OF TEH BUTTONZ!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back