Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

Well, according to the front pages of FSD, we're getting the DOA5UA patch in early February, and Marie Rose in Spring.

I can only assume they feel the need to balance out MR some more.
 
Ein buffs make me feel good. Momiji nerfs, not so much.

Anyways, I'm curious. What made Jann Lee vanish from 5U's competitive scene?
 
He wasn't braindead enough, despite actually being pretty good.

My Thoughts on Ayane:

Buffs;

- 4P, BT4P and BTPP6P's launch heights are likely to be reverted back to how it's launch height originally was.

- PP6PK and 6PK received a damage increase from 26 to 30. This means her best front turned string just got better, universally (especially with wallsplats).

- 4P~K, BT4P~K, and BTPP6P~K's wall knockback distance was increased from 3m to 4m.

- 236K (drill kick) wall knockback distance was increased from 4m to 5.

- 3PP is now -3 on Normal Hit instead of -9, leaving Ayane relatively safe to use her BT8P or other things. She is no longer throw punishable this way. To compensate for it's new safety, 3P's delayable frames have more than likely been reduced a bit as well.

- 2K's advantage on Normal Hit has been changed from -6 to -2.

Slight Tweaks;

- 6P's damage has been reduced from 22 to 18. Nothing really major here for i13 frame mid. Doesn't affect it's crush properties at all.

- 8KK's guard advantage increased from +18 to +20. This is incorrect, 8KK is actually -18 on block, not +18. Regardless, it doesn't make a difference really. Still unsafe as hell.

- Mid kick hold (6H), not exactly sure what's new with it, I'll have to see for myelf when the patch is released.

- 2H+K, 6K2K, PP6K2K, 3PK and 33P2K's counter hit advantage on hit was changed from +23 to +18. This only means that it's easier to stagger escape, so really only highs (preferrably a jab) will continue it's stun if opponents actually stagger the stun. If they DON'T stagger, then her fastest mids (6P and 6K) will deepen the stun threshold.

Nerfs;

- BTPP6K guard advantaged changed from -11 to -16, no longer continous guard. This more than likely means that BTPP6KK4 will no longer jail like 66KK4 doesn't. Not exactly a big deal, but it is definitely a nerf.
 
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Xernuht said:
Ein buffs make me feel good. Momiji nerfs, not so much.

Anyways, I'm curious. What made Jann Lee vanish from 5U's competitive scene?
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Ein was definitely deserving of buffs. The dude really has to work in order to compete with some other characters.

I'm glad that Ayane has been buffed more than she was nerfed. 4P getting its Vanilla launch status back makes me delighted because I use that move a lot. Unfortunately, I'll guess that I'll have to adjust the usage of BT PP6KK4 if you will be able to react to final K from the string. Not a horrible nerf but a very noticeable one, however Ayane has more than enough tools to make up for it.

Windstar said:
Hmm more tweaking Kokoro, they really do feel she really strong.
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Judging by how the Japanese play Kokoro, she is a rushdown monster that completely complements their style of play. She has gotten nerfed in every patch since DOA4. This has to be aggravating for Western Kokoro players.
 
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Force_of_Nature said:
Judging by how the Japanese play Kokoro, she is a rushdown monster that completely complements their style of play. She has gotten nerfed in every patch since DOA4. This has to be aggravating for Western Kokoro players.
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Honestly? Western Kokoro players are not that great if they have not found ways to compensate for her changes. I have respect for those that continue to main her (Vincent Rayne, Commmanda Panda, etc), but there are ways to make a character strong, and "no one" in the western region has done so because they have proven that they lack the ability to fully play their character well, despite character changes. Whereas the japanese actually have.

The same can be said about both the japanese and western players in regards to Ayane. Everyone said she was nerfed, and nerfed HARD. But guess who proved the western side wrong? Yours truly (you knew this already but I'm just saying so for everyone else). As soon as I started sharing things and competing offline in California, my Ayane brethren calmed down and began taking a look into things and we've done nothing but share tech since the beginning of 5U.

The japanese still believe Ayane isn't anything special because they don't have anyone over there that's been playing the character that well. Just decently.

Xernuht said:
Was that really it? Mein gott... I may have found a new sub.
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About Jannlee; He's actually fair in the game as he is now. Fair speed, i10/i12/i13 (hi/mid/low), solid damage, good mix ups, incredible zoning. His Dragon Gunner is slower (which is fair) and that makes it easier to react to it. But that, his high hold on high kicks, and his mid punch hold make you pay if he has a correct read on you. Because he's rewarded a mix up for a Critical burst.

His stun > launch damage is decent, but it's main purpose is to score the knock back so he can zone you out, and a Jannlee that can do that well is a tough nut to crack.

He can fight pretty well while up close, but has problems in matches vs characters with tools that are that much better than his own. He doesn't have crushes like Ayane or Genfu that would allow him to stay up close longer then he has to. His 6K is i13, his 6P is i12, but also has an i12 K which does help vs characters like Jacky, Hitomi and Leifang.

He's a good character, but the fact that his 6P was a frame slower did change his match ups. But since it'll be i11 once again, it'll help those same match ups. But his 6K will remain i13, so he cannot use that to switch up his neutral poking with his 2P, since 2P will be -1 on normal hit again.
 
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HajinShinobi said:
About Jannlee; He's actually fair in the game as he is now. Fair speed, i10/i12/i13 (hi/mid/low), solid damage, good mix ups, incredible zoning. His Dragon Gunner is slower (which is fair) and that makes it easier to react to it. But that, his high hold on high kicks, and his mid punch hold make you pay if he has a correct read on you. Because he's rewarded a mix up for a Critical burst.

His stun > launch damage is decent, but it's main purpose is to score the knock back so he can zone you out, and a Jannlee that can do that well is a tough nut to crack.

He can fight pretty well while up close, but has problems in matches vs characters with tools that are that much better than his own. He doesn't have crushes like Ayane or Genfu that would allow him to stay up close longer then he has to. His 6K is i13, his 6P is i12, but also has an i12 K which does help vs characters like Jacky, Hitomi and Leifang.

He's a good character, but the fact that his 6P was a frame slower did change his match ups. But since it'll be i11 once again, it'll help those same match ups. But his 6K will remain i13, so he cannot use that to switch up his neutral poking with his 2P, since 2P will be -1 on normal hit again.
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Well, the DG was the only reason I never tried playing him for real in 5, given that the entire strategy for higher level play seemed to be DG>combo on hit, quick attack on whiff>DG. Hearing him being balanced makes me feel better.

That said, his only guaranteed damage off of DG is 66K, correct?
 
So, Marie isn't coming out until spring? Still no idea whether she or the update will be free?
 
Xernuht said:
Well, the DG was the only reason I never tried playing him for real in 5, given that the entire strategy for higher level play seemed to be DG>combo on hit, quick attack on whiff>DG. Hearing him being balanced makes me feel better.

That said, his only guaranteed damage off of DG is 66K, correct?
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No, he's always had the same mix ups off Dragon Gunner since vanilla. 66K is the guaranteed 50 points of damage, but you'll opt for that to close out a round. He has 66H+K/66H+K4 guarantee for mix up into Dragon stance or a throw if you condition players to hold.
 
LostProvidence said:
So, Marie isn't coming out until spring? Still no idea whether she or the update will be free?
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Updates for DOA have always been free, so no worries there. But I doubt we'll be charged for downloading Marie Rose too. It might actually be mandatory to do so, like it was with the 1.03 update and having to download Game Catalog #4
 
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Force_of_Nature said:
Ein was definitely deserving of buffs. The dude really has to work in order to compete with some other characters.

I'm glad that Ayane has been buffed more than she was nerfed. 4P getting its Vanilla launch status back makes me delighted because I use that move a lot. Unfortunately, I'll guess that I'll have to adjust the usage of BT PP6KK4 if you will be able to react to final K from the string. Not a horrible nerf but a very noticeable one, however Ayane has more than enough tools to make up for it.



Judging by how the Japanese play Kokoro, she is a rushdown monster that completely complements their style of play. She has gotten nerfed in every patch since DOA4. This has to be aggravating for Western Kokoro players.
Click to expand...

I wish I could find good Japanese Kokoro play.
 
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