FGC and Sexism.

i think Aris loves to hear his voice/clearly loves to be in the spotlight. next time your a coach, Aris, talk about the game and not about the one female players cup size.

sounds like that was an actual REAL girl(not Kayo) around Aris for the first time in a while and that plus Aris' love of being 'cool' on the mic really didnt do him any favors.

buy a treadmill and some fusion blades Aris, fat fuck.

^^^oops im sorry for my derogatory statements regarding another players fitness and apparant lack of hygiene. i am deeply sorry for offending anyone. This was a combination of people taking things out of context and my own inability in the heat of the moment to defend myself and the community I have loved for almost 15 years.​
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i would say quoting another mans apology isnt cool in the real world but this is the FGC and Aris has taught me that we do things differently here right?​
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news flash...disrespecting women anywhere will not be tolerated. because i will disrespect you.​
 
I kinda feel bad for Coolfighter. He essentially says "Women should prove they are the equals of men and not just expect people to take it on blind faith/dogma." For that he gets bashed. Idle pretty much just says "Women are lesser" in a pretentious manner and no one responds.

To be fair to Idle I am not trying to smear him as a bad person (I mean he is kind of a dick but that is arguable whether that is his best or his worst feature). I agree with the crux of his argument. Men and women had different evolutionary strategies and ultimately turned out differently. The only thing I disagree with is he think that men and women can be properly compared and one can come out on top. I think that is bull because both provide necessary services to society and just wastes peoples time. Any notion of either superiority or equality between the sexes is pointless.

Anyway I feel bad for Miranda. Aris was out of line.
 
Tanegashima said:
The only thing I disagree with is he think that men and women can be properly compared and one can come out on top.
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Please point to where I said this, or kindly retract it. I don't mind being vilified over stupid FG stuff, but when it comes to actual social issues, I'd prefer not to be slandered, thanks.
 
Hello everybody this is your friendly social scientist here, who is going to turn very mean and downright bitchy here for a moment.
Okay, no. I'll keep my cool, but let me analyze a few sentences in here, aside from all the rambling and explaining and going on about all that.

Just the gist of it.

The other guy is saying "You are trying to turn it into something it is not" and he makes a good point - reflecting on the community being this or that way in this one guy's reading which is obviously wrong.
"If you dont like onions get your sandwich without onions i mean this is the fighting game community"
He made a metaphor which makes no sense just to seem like he has any manner of authority to speak up about his opinion. Typically done by people who do not feel their own opinion to be valid enough without justification, not to be mistaken for people who make metaphors to make something complicated into a simple everyday example to explain it.

The latter is being a good sophist, the former is being an insecure asshat.
"You can because this game is , y'know, a community that is 15 or 20 years old" - Validating his opinion by how old the community is. BIG mistake. A community's age has little to do with a community's harshness factor - in fact there is hard scientific data (both qual/quan research) that proves how age mellows communities out a good deal, because as people stick together they learn to tolerate one another and warm up to one another.

"and, um, the sexual uh, harrassment is um, part of our , um, culture"
Harrassment being part of a culture, is it Dolf I'm hearing here? Seriously, are we sending women to gas chambers now? The tone of it, the sentence in itself shows that he is trying real hard to mount that on how old the community is and how he believes that the community is about sexual harrassment.

Now for the feature sentence:
"And if you remove that from the fighting game community it is not the fighting game community, it is um, Starcraft!"

He says that sexual harrassment makes the fighting game community into the fighting game community. Not the fighting games, not good sportsmanship and not creating a community around a game that we like to play in good spirit but instead something that he considers to be ,,fun and a part of it,, and if anybody considers harrassment to be fun, well...
He claims that Starcraft is a friendly community where there is no any manner of harrassment and it is all pink butterflies and it is for sissies and girls.
Clearly he has no idea what a community is, what constitutes a community, is at odds with his own sexuality and has no fucking idea how harsh and mean the RTS strategy scene is.

This individual is very likely on the peripherals of the community, is feeling alienated and is using malice as his only way to interact with the rest of the people who may or may not encourage his tendencies, but in reality most people do not laugh WITH such an individual, but AT them, while such an individual will never/rarely realize.
I could get meaner, but I will refrain. I think I have made my point.
Tell that bloke to wank more so he won't be so upset.
 
OH NOES WHITE KNIGHTS EVERYWHERE

Ruins all socioethical conversations. =\

I'm just glad that my own experiences with women in the FGC never have this issue come up- because I don't treat them as equals.
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Technically it is libel if it is written. I assumed if you don't treat women as equals and say they are unequal that it means you consider them inferior (at the very least in a certain social context). Now if you said "I do not treat them equally because they are scrubs." that would have been a more precise answer less open to interpretation. You did say that you have to treat people differently depending on the context I will give you that. I apologize though if I misinterpreted your argument but you have to admit that half the time you try to be provocative anyway and it can be hard to tell what is serious or not online. Most of the stuff you say I only take half seriously anyway. I mean I am not calling MoneyMuffins a vile human being because clearly he is just trying to get a rise out of people and be funny. So that can lead to people making wrong impressions.

Anyway I am kinda shocked you are so offended by the misogynist label (that and I was calling you a pretentious misanthrospist). It tends to get thrown around to such insane degrees that it is pretty worthless in rational circles. That and I figured you had a pretty think skin and it doesn't really matter what we think of each other anyway.
 
You missed the point of everything I've said in this thread:

I don't treat people, any people, women or not, as equals because there is no such thing as equality. Equality is an idea- it's not real. We made it up*. I treat each according to their measure. I don't say shit around women who I feel would take it badly the same as ones who might not care. In general I've found women care more, but it's hardly universal. I act as the situation demands.

The point is, there is no standard of behavior, merely consequences for offense. I'm annoyed at being characterized because conclusions are being drawn here based on gender and equality- I consider that the worst kind of pandering scum.

You can't say "treat everyone as equals, but sometimes you have to act differently towards these ones".

That is hypocritical, and frankly, it disgusts me.

Aris was wrong because he didn't respect Yan's obvious want for this to stop- not that she is a girl. He breached the social contract in this area. The rest is just white knight bullshit, and I won't be vilified as a misogynist because I'm not full of shit.

*10 points for whoever gets this reference.
 
I'm afraid you also misconstrued my argument because I said to effect the same thing. From a more evolutionary perspective but still. I said you can't have two things with different evolutionary purposes and strategies and call them equal when they were never meant to be the same.

I mean trust me Idle I would argue with you further but I just don't see any percieved disagreements anymore.
 
I don't think the issue should be "Aris said stupid shit" The issue is the damage this can do to the legitimacy of SCV as a business opportunity. If we just want the game to be casual, then fine, you can say whatever you want because it doesn't really matter. If the game is to have any kind of professional growth, then the pros should act like damned professionals. No potential sponsor wants to have something like this hanging over their head.

I can't imagine any other major game having a pro player say something like this and not get into huge trouble. Banned from tournament play level trouble.
 
IdleMind said:
I guess that means we have to agree to agree.
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I do apologize for mischaracterizing you though. You should know however it was done of ignorance and not malice or ill will. We may disagree over trivialities but on this our views are alligned.


........ don't sue.
 
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