Frustration, excuses (your char is top tier)

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GrinOlle

[08] Mercenary
Hi im new on 8wayrun though ive been a lurker since sc4.

I know its forbidden to open new threads unless there is something relevant etc, so i hope you guys find this relevant.

So my frustration is about tiers and characters. it seems like if you're winning with natsu its because shes freakin unbeatable and got all the bullshit tools. Ofc its never ever because youre good with the character, it's just how things work! It's a rationalazation to say i lost because youre character is top tier and nothing else. So in sc4 i started with ivy and became quite good with her and abused all her good shit, and there is no need to go into to what were good with her since everyone who played sc4 know's that allready.

So the guys i played regularly said i was winning because of Ivy being top tier not because of any skill at all even though i nailed ics consistantly (wich was just bonus considering all the other bullshit she had) So i switched to absoulute shit tiers Taki and Rock. I got my ass handed to me in the begining and lost ALOT, but i stuck to it and after some time i beat them consistantly with shit tier aswell. They tried to complain about some setups etc.. but in the end the couldent justify it. So fuck haters! you're not only winning because natsu is SSSSSSSS tier aint working as an excuse anymore! Don't get me wrong shes really really good, but its not like shes so good that you can play her in your sleep and still win.

So im just frustrated about people blaming it on the character instead of learning how to counter the character! so if you like sc5 there's a really good training mode you should check it out, it's good for you. :)

A side note A+B with Natsu though is just way to good.. the risk reward is insane it should be at least -15.

anyways peace out and block the bombs!
 
Personally I've never understood it. Natsu definitely is top tier, exceptionally strong with CH Combos and Bombs, but she has one glaring weakness I've found so far: her mixup or low game is too telegraphed. Maybe it's just my playing ability, but 1A, 4A into PO, PO B+K, PO HOV A (or 8A), FC A+B, 2A+B, 4A+B are the lows. All of them are completely telegraphed or are situational use. Once you learn her lows and how to block them, Natsu damage shrivels up. She has to fish for CH combos to deliver worthwhile damage, thats where most of it comes from really. And the CH combos with the good damage all evolve around JF input. Online this can definitely be a bitch to pull off. I can do it consistently offline, online though it feels more like guessing. So I vs opponents who know how to block, I can't mixup with the lows as they are far too telegraphed. I'm not complaining or nothing, but I don't understand why people whine so much about Natsu. Learn to block the lows/bombs and Natsu has to rely on CH combos to do high damage. I'd rather fight a Natsu than a Maxi or Seig tbh.
 
To be fair, Natsu is top tier.

And though I know she has weaknesses, and all that jazz, she's still top tier, and I could tell you that after a week of SC5. Same thing with Alpha Pat. I played Sets in 4, when 5 came out, I declared aPat broke as hell and a couple weeks later, everyone agrees. He has glaring weaknesses too, but his strengths far outweigh them. Same with Natsu, her strengths are just extremely good.

And yeah, I played Taki as a secondary in SC4, and I may pick up some Natsu in 5 (regardless of if she gets patched) just because of that, so I guarantee I'll hear the tier whore thing, but whatever, I play who I find fun (hence dropping alpha pat). =P
 
i cant say anything more than whats been said, i hear the same tired shit when i beat people as well. of course its the character and not because ive played high level soul calibur for 11 years now.

this new generation is a bunch of whiners. people complain about shit that theyre too lazy to figure out how to beat. people are calling for patches before even knowing matchups, they dont even know proper block punishes yet or how to deal with each PO transition.

this new culture of patch first ask questions later is lame, inevitably there will be some new garbage found for a different character and a whole new tier shuffle/crybaby festival will begin.

as has also been said, the lows are lacking, you have a shitty damage A throw, need good execution (i have a great success rate, but have definitely missed combos in clutch situations that have cost me) to get the big damage, CH is a must as well. i just dont see much that needs to be nerfed. nerf the bombs and the airthrow to hell and back for all i care, its what most people complain about but not at all what makes her good. oh yeah and A+B at -14 to -16 still with an option to use 4 after to keep them guessing.
 
I honestly don't see what the big deal with Natsu is. My friend mains Natsu and I fight her just fine. I play Sieg and have overcome the match-up (to a degree). I know most of her tricks so it doesn't bother me at all. Teleporting just tells me to do a slow move like 1B to catch you as soon as the invisible frames are over if it's a BT tele. For forward tele I just 3B. 3A for windroll... Then space her out to avoid letting her get the advantage. She isn't top tier in my opinion, mid-high yes but not top tier, she has weaknesses. I subbed Taki in SCIV so reading Natsu's stuff isn't that hard for me.
 
I generally disagree with the tier bullshit, somebody made that up and people keep fapping to it like it's hentai.
Fuck that. There is no such thing as a tier. Characters have advantages and disadvantages. Let me look up a few.

Here we go:
Natsu.
Ease of use: Medium
Reach: Low
Power: Low
Speed: High
Attack Rate: High

Pyrrha.
Ease of use: High
Reach: Low
Power: Low
Speed: High
Attack Rate: Medium

Nightmare.
Ease of use: High
Reach: High
Power: High
Speed: Low
Attack Rate: Low

Can't argue those charts, they're accurate. Natsu's high speed and attack rate make her up to par with Nightmare's reach and power but she's harder to use by far because you need to get accurate and then it's Nighty Knight for him.

On the other hand if you want an easy and fast character go for Pippy. She'll stuff a lot with her stabz0rz. Different learning curve with all three.

Tiers my ass. Every character has great strengths and weaknesses alike. Look at Easy-O, he's stupidly easy to spam and win noob matches with, but getting him to a high level sure takes a lot of skill.
 
Thats actually what people are complaining about. Natsu hits too hard for a char that's power is supposed to be low. Compare her to someone thats power is also considered to be low like viola and you see what people mean.
Not to say that she is imba (she could be supposed to be a hard hitting char after all) but that makes the charts very inaccurate.

Also no offense (seriously) but someone who has great trouble to perform natsu's air grab, is very questionable to have an accurate opinion about characters difficulty of use.
 
I also have no idea what the charts are supposed to mean in-game.
I've honestly never even looked at them. They appear to be way off course.
 
WARUI_NE said:
if you lose to natsu that bad you need to stop pressing buttons so much
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Stop being so cocky please. Nothing in my post gave you a clue about my winning rate against natsu or my playstyle. All i was getting at, is that the ingame charts are far from being correct.
This is also getting obvious, when you look at damp's chart which is hilariously small. Well it doesn't help that he infact is very terrible but you wouldnt think that they designed him to be bad on purpose.
 
ChaosK said:
Thats actually what people are complaining about. Natsu hits too hard for a char that's power is supposed to be low. Compare her to someone thats power is also considered to be low like viola and you see what people mean.
Not to say that she is imba (she could be supposed to be a hard hitting char after all) but that makes the charts very inaccurate.

Also no offense (seriously) but someone who has great trouble to perform natsu's air grab, is very questionable to have an accurate opinion about characters difficulty of use.
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None of her actual moves are hard hits, she has very few moves that RO and her guard break capabilities are very low. Her power is low.
What people who do not know her, consider to be "too high damage" is the speed and attack rate put together. It's the law of physics showing in the game... something with higher speed bashing quickly will break through solid objects. Like a drill.

She has to get in there, guess right and set the opponent up for that damage to happen, while all Nightmare and Asta have to do is swing dat axe to crush guard, knock back/down and then raze. She is balanced. She's just tricky to figure out at first.
 
ChaosK said:
Stop being so cocky please. Nothing in my post gave you a clue about my winning rate against natsu or my playstyle. All i was getting at, is that the ingame charts are far from being correct.
This is also getting obvious, when you look at damp's chart which is hilariously small. Well it doesn't help that he infact is very terrible but you wouldnt think that they designed him to be bad on purpose.
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ok well
her big damage comes from CH
BUT
she has no real mix ups outside of throws and her guard damage kinda sucks unless shes throwing out a lot of unsafe moves
 
She does have very hard hitting moves. Look at 66B on clean hit. I am totally fine with her dealing good damage from long strings, thats what she is supposed to do after all. But its moves like that definitely push her into an (at least) mid power char.
 
I'm content with 66B losing the clean hit factor.
Everyone has been saying it should- and it probably should.
 
ChaosK said:
She does have very hard hitting moves. Look at 66B on clean hit. I am totally fine with her dealing good damage from long strings, thats what she is supposed to do after all. But its moves like that definitely push her into an (at least) mid power char.
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66B is a huge risk as its both very linear and psuedo unsafe
 
True but the claim was natsu doesn't have hard hitting move -> 66B is a hard hitting move -> i win lol.
 
ChaosK said:
True but the claim was natsu doesn't have hard hitting move -> 66B is a hard hitting move -> i win lol.
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I never said that I said her big combo damage comes from CH
which is her WS K and 6A+B combo

70 damage in this game is a drop in the bucket compared to what others can do
 
A+B is awesome, i use it all the time ^.^

Edit:
WARUI_NE said:
I never said that I said her big combo damage comes from CH
which is her WS K and 6A+B combo

70 damage in this game is a drop in the bucket compared to what others can do
Click to expand...
My post actually was reffering to song-of-silence in the first place.
 
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