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I need KrayzieCD's, Freaky Styley's, Lobo's, Rigel, LasWagga, Thugish, WHOEVER'S opinion on that exact topic (lag tactic issues with prep, HOW MUCH PREP is legitmate(20% Transition rate? 50%?)

Saying prep is 100% useless is bullshit, it's part of Raphael. It's what he has instead of good combo's. It SUCKS, but it's what he has to work with, and it's not USELESS, just hard to use well.

Basically, I want any other Known Solid offline player to tell me about this issue with Raphael. Depending on the consensus, I'll alter my game. Yet, I've watched quite a few Raphael video's, and I've seen PREP in all of them. Plenty of times it was back to back, or between Horizontal's.
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Oh, and online, ONLINE, I get punished constantly in prep. CONSTANTLY.....and I also score plenty of damage through it. I have noticed that Prep A is hard to punish online....that sucks, seriously, I don't want that kind of advantage, but it's something we sacrifice, just like punishing your opponent characters moves as well.

Anyway, Anyone who plays or has played my Raphael recently, I'll listen, I can always take constructive criticism.
 
see any raphs doing well other then KDZ?

KDZ doesnt use prep outside of combos

also prep is useless.......

Duck vs that.... prep A is -6 on hit and only 8 dmg.....

good players will just duck it

but online you can't do this because you can't react to SEA B , making it a mix up

But like I said, do what you want

see how far you get

I see no point in trying to help if people don't want it
 
It's so not fair. I don't have a realistic OFFLINE COMMUNITY for this game, I can't SEE it with my own eyes so I don't know. This is why I'm asking for all other strong offline players opinion that PLAY ONLINE as well. Freaky Styley, you count. I don't want to ONLY hear it from you bubbles. I want a consensus.

If we break it down.....Raphael knowledge:

3B is your most used move for prep transition(6BB is also a must for non TCing interrupter/punisher...but let's stick with 3B).

3B - i16 vertical linear mid, on NH/CH 3(B) BB gauranteed for 38 damage. 3B prep transition on block into Prep A(fastest move from prep) trades with i13, 3B on block without prep transition is -14. TECHNICALLY an unsafe move regardless, since Prep A is -16 on block. HOWEVER, 3B no prep has a huge push back on block, making it safe from most characters.

...There's no Raphael player that DOES NOT use this move AT ALL. NONE. This is a CORE Raphael move, Hudathan and Pendragonfall(wherever he went) would agree with that.
 
Wow! Guys...

To be like for real though, we can't get too serious about online, you guys gonna end up like CD, nitpicking this shit down to the bare bone. To the point where it's not fun and it's pretty much unplayable. Online is Online.

The whole theory of play like you would offline. Well let me tell you about offline, you can do whatever the fuck you want, 1A all day baby.

CD complained to me about doing Cervy's 2A blocked into a Grab. I know 2A is negative on block, only reason I pulled out a throw was to go offensive where I should be defensive. If you understand the progression of the meta-game this is a legit strategy, attacking when your supposed to be defending. However, he made it seem like it was guaranteed free shit because it's online...well in a 4 bar it isn't, you can easily interrupt and punish that.

Then he also complained about the Cervy's Dread Charge UB, he apparently has never seen any good offline cervy players use it because it's easily duckable, right. One, offline you can do whatever you want, and two
docvizzo does it twice and it hits twice.

Only reason I bring this up is because that would be the second time I have had this stuff.

Lag tactics should be narrowed down to cheap ass lows, that trap you in a mind game, because that's how the game is played and won through mind games. That's why Amy is top tier.

In regards to nejihyuga4real. Lag tactics don't bother me as much as people's attitudes. I had a session with him and P R E S H E R, and both these cocky fucks were having a blast with me using lag tactics, yet thinking they have such great skillz. That shit pissed me off. His Ivy is far from legit Xephukai you just don't know what Ivy's lag moves are apparently. In any case as long as you guys have him in your sessions I will be taking any extra frustrations I might have off him.

Cuz I have players on my friends that are all about lag tactics...LivingXXLegend or something, I know his Ivy well, so any lag tact nejihyuga4real does I will know. Personally I don't call anyone out for anything, and everyone is guilty...EVERYONE. It's the attitude you bring that gets me, that's why I loathed timefly305, corrondo25, now P R E S H E R.
 
I disagree strongly about this negative opinion of Presher/existwounds, I've played him plenty of times recently and he doesn't abuse bombs at all. He has setups where he belives you'll get up, and try to tech trap you with bombs. He mixes her PO up very well, he steps, he punishes, he blocks, he TC's highs, etc.

He's a good player in my opinion.
 
KingAce said:
Wow! Guys...

To be like for real though, we can't get too serious about online, you guys gonna end up like CD, nitpicking this shit down to the bare bone. To the point where it's not fun and it's pretty much unplayable. Online is Online.

The whole theory of play like you would offline. Well let me tell you about offline, you can do whatever the fuck you want, 1A all day baby.

CD complained to me about doing Cervy's 2A blocked into a Grab. I know 2A is negative on block, only reason I pulled out a throw was to go offensive where I should be defensive. If you understand the progression of the meta-game this is a legit strategy, attacking when your supposed to be defending. However, he made it seem like it was guaranteed free shit because it's online...well in a 4 bar it isn't, you can easily interrupt and punish that.

Then he also complained about the Cervy's Dread Charge UB, he apparently has never seen any good offline cervy players use it because it's easily duckable, right. One, offline you can do whatever you want, and two
docvizzo does it twice and it hits twice.
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Dude don't put words in my mouth man. I did not say that 2A blocked into throw was free shit online, fucking listen. I said the reason that even has a chance of working is because lag online delays your response after blocking the 2A, so at times even when you meant to retaliate right after you blocked the 2A your move comes out slower and if someone buffered in a grab right after 2A not even checking to see if it was blocked or connected, it lands way more online. I said offline it's not very smart to go for a grab after your 2A gets blocked and I still stand by that and I think most offline players would agree. Which is why I said that I was surprised to see you do it, since I believe you're one of the ones who claim to play online as close as they do offline. I don't care what explanation you give, most smart players would not go for a grab after a 2A and for good reason. This would rarely work offline but online has much more of a chance to work for reasons I already explained. Cervy dread charge unblockable same story. Sure if you set it up correctly like Docvizzo did it can be successful offline, but online this attack hits way more because people have to respect the two mids that come from this stance. In 4 bars you pretty much have to anticipate the move, you can't react to it like you can offline which was my complaint with it.

As far as online is online, haven't we been through this plenty of times now? WE KNOW that shit! The point is, we TRY to play as CLOSELY to the way we play offline as possible. Yes I know everything goes offline, obviously that doesn't work online so we try to limit some of the stuff. I'm not nitpicking shit, the only thing I really complain about are those cheesy ass 1As and the other horizontal knockdown slow lows. When I complained about Cervy dread charge UB and 2A on block into throw to you, it's because those were things that I know good players don't use or at least don't use often but actually work at lot better online for reasons I explained.

Still whatever man, I didn't tell you not to use that shit. I simply questioned some of your tactics. Just don't sit here and talk about me nitpicking when I don't even get on these forums and complain about all kinds of stuff online like a lot of people do. I only questioned YOU because I hold you to a higher standard because I know you're an offline player. But it's cool, I really do hope one day I can play you offline so we can see just how well your 2A on block into throw works and your Cervy dread charge unblockable.
 
KingAce said:
Wow! Guys...

To be like for real though, we can't get too serious about online, you guys gonna end up like CD, nitpicking this shit down to the bare bone. To the point where it's not fun and it's pretty much unplayable. Online is Online.

The whole theory of play like you would offline. Well let me tell you about offline, you can do whatever the fuck you want, 1A all day baby.

CD complained to me about doing Cervy's 2A blocked into a Grab. I know 2A is negative on block, only reason I pulled out a throw was to go offensive where I should be defensive. If you understand the progression of the meta-game this is a legit strategy, attacking when your supposed to be defending. However, he made it seem like it was guaranteed free shit because it's online...well in a 4 bar it isn't, you can easily interrupt and punish that.

Then he also complained about the Cervy's Dread Charge UB, he apparently has never seen any good offline cervy players use it because it's easily duckable, right. One, offline you can do whatever you want, and two
docvizzo does it twice and it hits twice.

Only reason I bring this up is because that would be the second time I have had this stuff.

Lag tactics should be narrowed down to cheap ass lows, that trap you in a mind game, because that's how the game is played and won through mind games. That's why Amy is top tier.

In regards to nejihyuga4real. Lag tactics don't bother me as much as people's attitudes. I had a session with him and P R E S H E R, and both these cocky fucks were having a blast with me using lag tactics, yet thinking they have such great skillz. That shit pissed me off. His Ivy is far from legit Xephukai you just don't know what Ivy's lag moves are apparently. In any case as long as you guys have him in your sessions I will be taking any extra frustrations I might have off him.

Cuz I have players on my friends that are all about lag tactics...LivingXXLegend or something, I know his Ivy well, so any lag tact nejihyuga4real does I will know. Personally I don't call anyone out for anything, and everyone is guilty...EVERYONE. It's the attitude you bring that gets me, that's why I loathed timefly305, corrondo25, now P R E S H E R.
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As for Neji, you do what you will. All I notice is no WP 1B, no 22K, and no 214 B spam- and everything seems okay (excluding lag strings). I do agree with you on Presher, his taki bomb use is gross (imo) but I just choose not to play him. I agree as well that attitude does count as well. I hate the cockiness of lag abusers- especially when they know what lag tacts are. But go ahead, I'm not saying "NO! NO LAG TACTS" and you didn't do it to me, so it's all good.

Anyways, I know it's not my place- but CD is one of the simple non-lag abusers(imo). He's said, numerous times on here, let's just keep it to 1A's and slow, sweeping lows. I mean, even I know 2A (blocked) grab doesn't work offline as well as it does online. Yes, you're right as well that everyone is guilty of lag- because of lag strings and all that. But like CD had said- it's the try and imitate legit play offline that amkes online a lot more fun. There are a large number of players who don't use lag tacts- and majority of those players are the better online players.
 
KrayzieCD said:
Dude don't put words in my mouth man. I did not say that 2A blocked into throw was free shit online, fucking listen. I said the reason that even has a chance of working is because lag online delays your response after blocking the 2A, so at times even when you meant to retaliate right after you blocked the 2A your move comes out slower and if someone buffered in a grab right after 2A not even checking to see if it was blocked or connected, it lands way more online. I said offline it's not very smart to go for a grab after your 2A gets blocked and I still stand by that and I think most offline players would agree. Which is why I said that I was surprised to see you do it, since I believe you're one of the ones who claim to play online as close as they do offline. I don't care what explanation you give, most smart players would not go for a grab after a 2A and for good reason. This would rarely work offline but online has much more of a chance to work for reasons I already explained. Cervy dread charge unblockable same story. Sure if you set it up correctly like Docvizzo did it can be successful offline, but online this attack hits way more because people have to respect the two mids that come from this stance. In 4 bars you pretty much have to anticipate the move, you can't react to it like you can offline which was my complaint with it.

As far as online is online, haven't we been through this plenty of times now? WE KNOW that shit! The point is, we TRY to play as CLOSELY to the way we play offline as possible. Yes I know everything goes offline, obviously that doesn't work online so we try to limit some of the stuff. I'm not nitpicking shit, the only thing I really complain about are those cheesy ass 1As and the other horizontal knockdown slow lows. When I complained about Cervy dread charge UB and 2A on block into throw to you, it's because those were things that I know good players don't use or at least don't use often but actually work at lot better online for reasons I explained.

Still whatever man, I didn't tell you not to use that shit. I simply questioned some of your tactics. Just don't sit here and talk about me nitpicking when I don't even get on these forums and complain about all kinds of stuff online like a lot of people do. I only questioned YOU because I hold you to a higher standard because I know you're an offline player. But it's cool, I really do hope one day I can play you offline so we can see just how well your 2A on block into throw works and your Cervy dread charge unblockable.
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Here's the thing though since you quit offline us playing each other isn't very likely.
I used to play with some standards online, but I realized how pointless it was and now I just play for fun and nothing more.

Whatever you do you can't recreate offline, even if you break yourself down to a five move astaroth with C grabs like you do it's fruitless. I am on there for fun, I am not competing with you...it's online. And I even doubt I used those tactics on you, in that session.

The dread Charge ub has never been a problem for me, and any 2A shit I can always easily deal with. Those aren't tactics I am just playing the game, simple as that.

If you want to have a serious session with me, you can't have P R E S H E R as the fucking host.

But I still want you guys to know that I am having an ONLINE SESSION WITH YOU, that is all, you can take it however you want. Maybe you guys care more than I do.
 
KingAce said:
Here's the thing though since you quit offline us playing each other isn't very likely.
I used to play with some standards online, but I realized how pointless it was and now I just play for fun and nothing more.

Whatever you do you can't recreate offline, even if you break yourself down to a five move astaroth with C grabs like you do it's fruitless. I am on there for fun, I am not competing with you...it's online. And I even doubt I used those tactics on you, in that session.

The dread Charge ub has never been a problem for me, and any 2A shit I can always easily deal with. Those aren't tactics I am just playing the game, simple as that.

If you want to have a serious session with me, you can't have P R E S H E R as the fucking host.

But I still want you guys to know that I am having an ONLINE SESSION WITH YOU, that is all, you can take it however you want. Maybe you guys care more than I do.
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Don't speak on stuff you don't know about man. How the hell are you gonna tell me that I 'quit offline'? What, because I don't fly all over the fuckin country anymore means I don't play offline? I host gatherings at my house every now and then and play offline with all my folks from NorCal so don't tell me I quit offline.

As for not competing, what the hell is the point in playing if you're not competing? You're having fun because it's enjoyable to outsmart someone in a game and win.....that's called competing son. If you weren't competing you wouldn't give a damn how many times P R E S H E R bombed your ass into the sky.
 
if yall wanna be technical about this cervy 2A on block into grab, lets compare it to sc3. In sc3, you can 2A on block then GI the second you see opponent move, so it beats grabs, mids, and 2A from opponent. So, for opponent to beat that out, they'd have to pause, do a slow move, or do a low to beat out your GI. If they paused and you anticipated that, ur grab comes out. If they grab, your grab attempt would be the break for their grab. If they 2A after ur blocked 2A, you take minor damage. Either way, people never go for big shit (launcher) after they block a 2A unless they're playin someone they know has balls. Most characters' 3B/33B is steppable after your 2A is blocked or unsafe on block, so you could punish them for doin some launchers anyways.
What I'm sayin is it ain't a bad strat offline depending on opponent playstyles, but was more effective in sc3, cause in sc4 opponent never has to hesitate before grabbing cause they would have to be JIed, so they can start their mixup immediately.

Cervy 214A works offline, but only against scrubs for the most part.

And I write this simply because I'm bored and have absolutely nothing else to do right now.
 
BelovedChild said:
Ivy WP 1B comparison? Hmmm.......yeah I guess that's true. Can anyone actually test on it? The games I played offline I use it infrequently at best and in the same setups/combos(Those strings that are gauranteed?!??!?!o_O) works alot, getting stepped sometimes ofcourse. Just like it does online.

If I get ALOT of the same opinions from players that I shouldn't use the move in those setups(lag tactic?) then I'll drop it.

Neji is garbage huh? Strange, I thought he was a pretty decent player (but who's a pro? Oh yeah, Bubbles....-_-) but who am I to talk bubbles, I'm garbage too right? ^_^

From here on out bubbles, I'm agreeing with a few other people around here and not taking you seriously anymore. I don't give a shit that we're both Raphael players.

Have a nice day ^_^
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gg's too Nice & deadly , NBNBNBN, devine night.

@Beloved Neji is one of the better ivy players around i remember when he first started ivy he's come a long way from training wit 350z and me. He's one of the most skilled players you see online nowadays wit the SC faded scene. Once he get how everything flows and moves even faster i think he can be an monster ivy offline also.
 
teflon2105 said:
gg's too Nice & deadly , NBNBNBN, devine night.
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Do you mean cute&deadly? that bitch pisses me off. thinking he/she is the All Mighty SHIT !!

Here we go about online shit again, ppls trash talk is starting to get to me a little, so im going to say this. Im going to agree with Xeph and CD in the idea that online 1As and slow vertical sweeping moves (example: Rugi's 11A, 1A, FC1A+B... Algols 11A...App's 44K...etc etc...) should be banned online and all other lows are okay to use IN MODERATION.

If you nitpick every tiny detail that is lagtactic online, then the game is just not fun to play anymore...
 
teflon2105 said:
gg's too Nice & deadly , NBNBNBN, devine night.

@Beloved Neji is one of the better ivy players around i remember when he first started ivy he's come a long way from training wit 350z and me. He's one of the most skilled players you see online nowadays wit the SC faded scene. Once he get how everything flows and moves even faster i think he can be an monster ivy offline also.
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neji one of the most skilled? I think he's beaten my Cervantes 3 times out of 100 matches. But, he doesn't use lag tacts making him better than all the other ivy scrubs.
 
Okay, seriously. Some of this "lag-tactic discussion" should be in that other thread.
This just a good games thread. Not a Online/Offline debate on tactics.
Stop waving the e-peens around. Just post good games to whoever(s).
I may sound like a douche, but I'm fed up with "who's better than who" theme. Or what is legit online.
If anyone does lag tactics unintentionally(for instance) and wants to become better, show them the way.
If they come off as a cocky bastard, leave them alone. Online is random and should be treated in good fun.
Flame me if you want, but I will only take online as random amusement. Savvy?
 
KrayzieCD said:
Don't speak on stuff you don't know about man. How the hell are you gonna tell me that I 'quit offline'? What, because I don't fly all over the fuckin country anymore means I don't play offline? I host gatherings at my house every now and then and play offline with all my folks from NorCal so don't tell me I quit offline.

As for not competing, what the hell is the point in playing if you're not competing? You're having fun because it's enjoyable to outsmart someone in a game and win.....that's called competing son. If you weren't competing you wouldn't give a damn how many times P R E S H E R bombed your ass into the sky.
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The difference between you and me, I don't take online seriously, what P R E S H E R does is fucking annoying and makes the game pretty much unplayable and that ain't fun at all.

You have always taken this online thing way more serious than you should, and these complaints just show that.You're nitpicking, I don't see who the hell you can play if things like this get to you. It's online it's just for fun if you're taking it anymore than that then that's all you man.

The rest of us compete offline, and that's the bottom line.

If what I am doing is that dramatic to you, despite the fact that I don't win shit with it, you know what to do son.

Xeph ofcourse neji used lag tactics, I just had a cheese session with teflon the king of Ivy lag tactics, neji was doing that shit, he might have not been spamming it, but he used it. And now you tell me he knows what he was doing? You know I am gonna have to murder him next time we meet.


GGs to teflon, Eli, and Panda today.
 
anyone played Maximus- before? is he on this Forum?

he is pretty decent, he abuses lag a little bit but its bearable. his Ivy ... ugh i hate Ivys
 
Lol I was in the room with you KingAce. Teflon's good at what he does and you're right. Neji plays like that. Just not as fluent as Teflon. I played against both of them today. So I know.
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I played him 3 days ago Panda. I made him quite but yes he abuses alil, hehe:D
 
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