Grabing part of Meta Game?

Doom103

Doom103

[08] Mercenary
Hello, first post here xD

I'm new to the competitive side of Soul Cal, so all this is foreign. I'm used to playing competitive but competitive with Melee, Guilty Gear, SF ect.

Well I've started to watch to watch videos and I've noticed alot of people don't grab. Coming from Smash grabbing was a huge part of the Meta Game, so am I just watching scrubs or is it not? And why?
 
In Smash, grabbing is extremely useful for positioning your opponent where you want them. Soul Calibur is different in that grab usefulness is heavily character dependant. Some characters like Astaroth and Rock have excellent grabs/rely on them heavily for damage, while other characters like Seigfried and Nightmare use special grabs for Ringout/positioning purposes.

There could be a few different reasons why you don't see many players grabbing. The player may not grab often as part of their playstyle; or, the character their using could specialize in longer range combat/have better short range options. Most skilled players will Grapple Break on reaction, reducing every grab down to a 50% chance of working (theoretically), which is another reason to seek out more reliable damage options.

Welcome to the site btw, and good to see another Melee-appreciater. :)
 
It's really just another move. It is short ranged, tracks, jumpable ('cept for Asty), duckable, breakable, i17 (or something), and does around 50 damage (depending on the character). The only reason it's used so much in smash is it's the only thing that can hit someone blocking (I guess you could make a case for shield break combos, but those are special, and maybe SSB64 only, that's the only one I play).
 
grabs are good depending on situation and for mix ups

grabs being i17,duckable,and breakable aren't insured dmg like mentioned above

also grabs have relatively low range compared to normal attack

because of this they are mostly used for close range mix ups
 
Some people like to throw a lot though ^^ I'm a throw whore. I'd say I throw twice a round with Voldo/Yoshi and maybe once with Amy.
 
grabs are also very good at ring positioning

also having your grab broken might work to your favor if your looking for spacing
 
Grabbing is very important.
Your throw % should always be as high as your opponents lets you.

You can play astaroth without grabbing and still hold your own, but usually every Asta player grabs, so it might seem that certain characters are designed with a grab game in mind...but grabs are a universal tool that change the flow of a fight to a great degree. So there is no such thing as grab specific chars...all chars can grab and so all players must grab... no one is good enuff to be exempt.

Especially since they add a lot to the mind game aspect of SC4.
 
Every once in awhile you'll play people who say grabbing is cheap and shouldn't be used.

Do not listen to these people.
 
KingAce said:
all chars can grab and so all players must grab
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I think you're assuming a bit much about all players. Or skipping a few steps.

Positives about a standard grab:
unblockable mid
can change your/your opponent's position
slows the game down for mental planning, I guess

Negatives about a standard grab:
can be broken 50% of the time by the opponent
can't grab jumpers/crouchers
limited range

If you play a character who only has a standard grab, chances are that character's playstyle revolves around using mostly mid/low mixups, or strong mids/highs mixed with grabs so they don't always block mid. Mitsurugi and Taki use mid/low mixups very well, to the point where they can easily win matches without a single grab. Characters like Vader or Setsuka though have very powerful mids but lack good lows, so they'll grab more to scare the opponent into ducking more often.

Some characters come with a healthy balance of both grabs and regular attacks. Cassandra has good normal mixups, but also has a normal and crouch grab, so the player can switch between varying playstyles and still perform well on a single character.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, playing Rock pretty much requires you to grab whenever possible (since that's where most of his damage comes from). Rock has not only mid grabs, but crouch grabs and ground grabs too. If a Rock player can read his opponent well enough to guess where he will be most of the time, he can grab them out of any position except jumping. Astaroth can even grab jumping opponents with his A+G, as well as having crouch and ground throws, so they are strong tools for these characters due having more situations to use them.

To get back to why I quoted KingAce, some people can be 'too good for grabs.' It's all about your character, and how you choose to play them.
 
Im a firm believer that throws are what keep this game balanced.

The main reason why I believe people look down on characters like Apprentice, Zasalamel, Talim, Tira - is because they dont incorporate throws into their game.

Make your opponent afraid of one thing to hit them with another.
 
i dont use throws a lot
but i used them when it's nice and when u can combo with
for the special combo of cassy , when the opponent fall slowly , very good to combo with.

anyway sometimes i can use throws for help me in fight but never 3 or 4 throws each match lol(i remember broke 4 or 5 times a grab addicted lol, it was funny )
 
Grabbing is nothing to be afraid of, once you set your controller to have both A and B on those shoulder buttons... that way, when guarding you can, in theory, grapple break 99.99% of the time when continuously pressing those assigned shoulder buttons.
 
Suirad said:
I'm pretty sure it just takes whichever one you enter first as your attempted break...
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Really? So I am to assume that if, theoretically, you pushed both A and B while guarding, it would still register the first input down to the tiniest millisecond? I'm normally asking because this strategy greatly helps me to grapple break and was wondering how anyone else efficiently grapple breaks more than 50% of the time.
 
A+B to break grabs registers as A.
You cannot break both breaks with binds. You get one input to break the grab and if its wrong, you dont break the grab, its that simple.

Breaking grabs can best be defined as educated guessing. Thats why you'll see good players breaking grabs at a 3/4 rate as opposed to a flat 50/50. It's all about knowing your opponents options.

-Idle
 
Lol, yeah, it only registers one throw break per throw attempt--whichever button you press first when the throw break window starts. If you mash A+B together it counts as an A break, unless you're Apprentice in which case you break both.
 
funkpanda said:
Im a firm believer that throws are what keep this game balanced.

The main reason why I believe people look down on characters like Apprentice, Zasalamel, Talim, Tira - is because they dont incorporate throws into their game.

Make your opponent afraid of one thing to hit them with another.
Click to expand...

I can see only Tira being the exception here but Apprentice and Zasalamel can use their frame advantage (Apprentice A+B, Zasalamel 6AB for example) to throw or do a mid, and both have a reverse RO throw so that makes it especially dangerous. Also Talim has quite damaging throws where one ringsout and the other provides good wake-up. Also she has a multi-part throw that does around 60 damage.

So I see that only Tira has not such a great throw game.

Sorry went a bit offtopic there, I do agree that throws keep this game balanced. It keeps people honest just like Unblockables and low attacks. For most characters the throw attacks are sufficient enough to be like a low attack. Some characters have both (Mitsu/Sieg).
 
i'd like to go offtopic a little
guys who participate in tournament
using BB or AA in close combat in order to add little damages is cheap or not?
i mean , i use few BB or AA finally , it's dumb ?
 
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