Hate Speech: Algol Nudes Surface, Scandal Ensues

  • Moderator
Welcome back to another standard edition of Hate Speech, what is fast becoming the source for fuzzy wuzzy let’s-hold-hands-around-the-campfire communitarian schlock. It’s not that I want to be a positive person—I don’t. My tiny, black heart pumps nothing but the condensed syrup of scorn and loathing which sustains me, but these are unusual times. We’re a month and some change away from SC5’s release, and I’m seeing arguments which are as counterproductive as they are wholly unnecessary, so today we’ll be discussing a few more community/demographic issues and hopefully putting everything to bed.

For those of you out there who didn’t catch it, there was briefly a thread in the SC5 forum regarding Famitsu’s Algol and Edgemaster character reveals. The sight of Algol’s majestic nakedness (he looks awesome, don’t you dare argue the point) sent everyone into a predictable frenzy; tempers became short, perceptions of reality began distorting, and several people started actually taking Vincent seriously. These are all dire omens, indeed...

The net result of this burgeoning hysteria was precisely what anyone would expect: a vicious little argument about the relative merits of hardcore and casual gamers as they relate to gaming generally. It was perfectly natural, really. Even so, it’s entirely off-base, as I’ll endeavor to prove.

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Idle: Having a mental block on pics. Feel it's in poor taste to do the usual funny insults for a serious article.
Hates: You might just have to use Kittens.
Setting the Stage

While one particular thread derailment inspired me to write on this subject, its specifics aren’t particularly relevant or interesting. For the sake of brevity and decency, allow me to offer a general summary:

Person A: I think [opinion]!
Person B: Shut up. [Opinion] must be wrong because I play in tournaments and you don’t!
A: You’re fat irl. [Opinion] is obviously right because we outnumber you and game developers hate you!
Vincent: I have 500 girlfriends and you are all scrubs.

The point of contention is unimportant. The real focus here should be the hierarchical distinctions being drawn between casual players and hardcore players, and that between tournament players and non-tournament players. Let’s examine them in turn.

Binary 1: Casual vs. Hardcore

To begin, it should be noted that the casual/hardcore binary is entirely distinct from its tournament/non-tournament counterpart. In fact, most of us here at 8wayrun.com are most likely hardcore players. To understand this, however, we need to interrogate the definitions of these terms. Since a key proposition in the aforementioned conflict is that developers can’t, won’t, or shouldn’t design for the undeniably smaller hardcore market, we must begin by looking at the terms from an industry perspective.

Richard Leinfellner, then of Electronic Arts, in his talk at the Games Production and Development Conference in Liverpool (2003, quoted in Bateman & Boon’s 21st Century Game Design), discussed EA’s audience model, which consisted at the time of three major segments: the hardcore gamer, the cool gamer, and the mass market casual gamer. In more detail:

Hardcore Gamers: This cluster reads the specialist press (magazines about games), plays demos, rents games before buying (especially in the U.S. market) and can play as many as twenty-five games (or more) each year.

Cool Gamers: A typical Cool gamer has a Hardcore friend who is their primary source of advice about buying games. They are part of big peer group, are swayed in their buying decisions by the opinions of this play group, and tend to play the current top ten hits in the gaming charts.

Mass Market Casual Gamers: The least game literate cluster in this model consists of a huge market of people who are in general swayed in their opinions of games by Cool gamer recommendation and TV advertising. They play predominantly the current top three hits in the gaming charts.

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Idle: Do you approve of this?
Hates: As long as they are in adorable outfits.

Interestingly, EA also sees the above market clusters as a direct marketing vector. In other words, the hardcore troglodytes each tell their one childhood friend who pities them enough to still say hi (the “cool gamer”) about a new title, and that friend, in turn, recommends it to all of his frat brothers. Cynical stereotyping aside, it’s a thoroughly reasonable, believable marketing model that apparently works quite well, given the available sales figures. As such, we can infer from this that developers understand the real risk involved in attempting to aim directly for the casual market without taking hardcore needs into account, irrespective of each group’s relative size. Thus, even if casual/hardcore truly was a simple as tournament/non-tournament, it doesn’t necessarily follow that Namco or any other developer would be prudent to ignore the former group.

Remember that the distinction isn’t that cut and dry, however. So where do we fall in that spectrum? Personally, I neither buy nor play a lot of games, so a hasty assignment might put me squarely in the realm of the mass market casual gamer. Then again, I’d call sites like 8wayrun.com, shoryuken.com, and others “specialist press,” and while I don’t buy a lot of games, the ones I ultimately do play competitively get played deeply and aggressively evangelized. I’m at least a hardcore fighting gamer and a hardcore Soul Calibur player. Many non-tournament players on this site also engage deeply and passionately enough, albeit in slightly different fashion, to also readily qualify as hardcore from the industry perspective.

Binary 2: Tournament vs. Non-Tournament

This is what most players seem to mean when they cite the casual/hardcore distinction. As we established, however, that’s not an especially useful or accurate way to think about it. What we should do is think about it in the simplest way possible: tournament players play in tournaments, non-tournament players don’t. Both can be hardcore, and if they’re here, it’s relatively difficult for them to be casual, so why the animosity? It likely stems from a rather shaky hierarchical rationale: “I could probably beat you at the game, so my opinion on all matters game-related thus trumps yours.”

The tournament mindset certainly dictates that to the victor go the spoils, but we must be cautious to confine that sort of thing to where it belongs. Truthfully, when it comes to issues of balance, gameplay, etcetera, a tournament player’s opinion does trump that of a non-tournament player, much like a great tournament player’s opinion trumps that of a mediocre one. In matters of aesthetics, game experience, backstory, overall fun, and basically everything else, however, we’re all on equal footing, so deal with it.

That said, non-tournament players (to borrow a phrase from a deeply embittered old man I know), face some uncomfortable truths. Project Soul is making a concerted effort to cater to the tournament crowd, and it is unquestionably correct in doing so. They’re spending a great deal of time and effort not only on working through balance and gameplay issues, but also on engaging with tournament players, getting their feedback, and so on. Think about it: there’s an obvious rationale behind their choice to demonstrate the game at major tournaments—one of which they actually attended, no less—as opposed to general conventions.

Beyond the need to embrace hardcore players mentioned above, I see two major reasons for this stance. First, the Project Soul guys take pride in their creation and want finally to win over tournament communities who have been ambivalent about the last two entries in the series. Second, for those of you who are fans of the game but not competitive players, they already have your money. Project Soul can design with an eye toward the tourney crowd because they are already giving you a game with large-scale customization, amazing graphics, orchestral sound, lush stages, and a ton of cool looking characters, each with its own unique aesthetic appeal. You may pick a nit or two about small elements of design, but no single complaint will prevent you from picking up the game and enjoying it.

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Idle: This is more or less the only important thing I do for the article so I don't want to fuck it up too badly.
Hates: It doesn't have to be a pictorial tour-de-force.

Tournament players are actually a much more fickle market. None of the lovely elements listed above matter if the game itself is wildly broken, and often that can come down to a solitary character or mechanic. Competitive players are necessarily pickier than others, they are far more willing to abandon a game over small but crucial flaws, and that abandonment can have a serious negative impact on a game’s overall reception.

Denouement—A Humble Request

If you’ve felt the urge lately to start shouting about casual versus hardcore players, don’t. The primary arguments held by both sides wither under any scrutiny, and the whole issue is relentlessly divisive at a time when we really ought to be marshaling our forces. Remember, non-tournament players, that we in the tournament community drive and sustain interest in a game, and we all really want to put on exciting tournament matches showcasing your favorite characters. Tournament players, we need to remember that our special expertise doesn’t extend to all things SC-related and that need an audience, damn it. Frankly, we all have better reasons to rip each other, anyway.

I’d really like to see tournament players drop the elitism and non-tournament players stop being defensive because, ultimately, I want to see more tournament players. We do this by eliminating as many barriers to entry as possible without sacrificing who and what we are. For those of you out there who aren’t involved in the tournament scene, I invite you to check it out. Post up in a matchfinder thread, locate a nearby community, and dive in. If you don’t like it, you sacrifice maybe an evening or two, but if you do like it, the rewards are immense. When I was first starting out, I never had any aspirations of tournament play—I didn’t even really understand it, to be honest—but over the last ten years I have crisscrossed the country, made plenty of friends, and found a depth and breadth of enjoyment in fighting games that I never imagined possible. I urge everyone to give it a real shot. The release of a new game in the series is a perfect time to begin getting involved, and I hope to be beating the hell out of all of you very soon.

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Hates: But bear in mind that we do this weekly, not everything will be perfect or wonderful every time.
Idle: OK, cats collected and incoming then!

Homework:
As usual, let me know what you think about casual/hardcore, tournament/non-tournament, etc. More importantly, find someone you thought of as “casual” and point them here, or give them your own recruitment pitch. You don’t need to be the best ever (that position’s taken, anyway *ahem*) to discover a love of competitive play. Foster that in somebody. Also, tune in next week for my Chun-Li cosplay pics!
 
... most of us here, that emergent complexity is an interesting, beautiful thing, but I can see how a designer might come to view it as a perversion of his original intent.

That reminds me of an article written about the game Gunz. Here an unintended strategy emerged that was used by pro players only later for it to be patched. The fans were disappointed and later the designers patched the game again to include that exploit glitch and apologized.
 
That reminds me of an article written about the game Gunz. Here an unintended strategy emerged that was used by pro players only later for it to be patched. The fans were disappointed and later the designers patched the game again to include that exploit glitch and apologized.

There was a similar (but very elongated) patching-out-then-in arc for the early MMO Ultima Online. You could "precast" a spell and arm a weapon with the targeting cursor up, smack somebody, then drop a spell on their head. It led to a lot of complex pvp scenarios and strategies.
 
@at MikeBreezy,

I'm not sure if your praising me or criticizing me.

Either way, I don't agree with the "logic" behind elitism. You can't justify people being total douche-bags, especially at a time when a new SC game is coming out. Were trying to promote the game, remember?

Do you want SC players to have a reputation of being elitist ass holes, or do you want people to say, "they're nice and genuine and helpful"?

I go to other video game websites, and typically people say FG players, but more specifically SC players, are immature ass holes. That is part of the reason they refuse to play such games.

It's time to start setting a good example. Unfortunately some of the best SC players have some of the worst attitudes I've ever seen. Some people have far, far too much pride for any rational discussion.

I'm done discussing this, and that goes for everyone.
 
I think it's primarily the tournament crowd which should learn to not be offended by anything they consider casual. It's always that side which starts the argument.

Someone will mention Algol's lack of clothing, Ivy's boobs, something to do with CAS, something to do with story, something to do with online, something to do with anything which isn't directly related to the specifics of tournament play and someone will inevitably come in and insult everybody for their silly casual antics. The "casuals" usually defend themselves, because being insulted doesn't actually encourage friendly normal conversation.
 
I think it's primarily the tournament crowd which should learn to not be offended by anything they consider casual. It's always that side which starts the argument.
Yeah, every silly game mode, regardless of how gimmicky, is just another chance for someone to pick up and try the game. As long as Namco keeps the light on for tournaments, some players should naturally find themselves heading down that path.


Like an engine of a car, the vehicle is useless without it. But we don’t ride around on giant engines (except Vincent). My point being is that a game is lot more than its vital gears, and it would be great if more hardcore players remembered why they initially got into fighting games in the first place, because it probably had nothing to do with money matches or egregious shit talk. Conversely, it would be nice if certain casual players would refrain from storming the beaches of competitive threads with nuts-in-hand… Something I’ve learned recently is to be wary of judgments based on face value and contrary to Idle’s analogy of oil and water, I believe over time we’ll start to see how important both roles will become even if they are working independently of each other.
 
The thing is that not all of us can participate in a tournament. Not everyone has the economic capability of just taking a week off and traveling to a far city for solely entertainment reasons. Some might also have a very tight schedule. I myself will love to participate in the competitive FL community when I get to college, since my parents are definitely not paying such a long trip for me to play a game. I just hope people still play SC by then.

You don't need to travel to some far off city, especially if you never been a tournament before. Just find something local and play with other people offline. But if you have time to play SCV, you have the time to play SCV offline, you will just have alot more fun doing so.

@at MikeBreezy,

I'm not sure if your praising me or criticizing me.

Either way, I don't agree with the "logic" behind elitism. You can't justify people being total douche-bags, especially at a time when a new SC game is coming out. Were trying to promote the game, remember?

Do you want SC players to have a reputation of being elitist ass holes, or do you want people to say, "they're nice and genuine and helpful"?

I go to other video game websites, and typically people say FG players, but more specifically SC players, are immature ass holes. That is part of the reason they refuse to play such games.

It's time to start setting a good example. Unfortunately some of the best SC players have some of the worst attitudes I've ever seen. Some people have far, far too much pride for any rational discussion.

I'm done discussing this, and that goes for everyone.

From my experience, the majority of people act like douchebags behind a keyboard EVERYWHERE on the internet, so any douchebaggery isn't limited to just this site.

And before I started playing offline, I heard alot of bad things about the Soulcalibur community. Ignore what goes on on these gaming websites and meet some people in person. The people in the SC community are some of the nicest, most helpful people in the fighting game community.

I think it's primarily the tournament crowd which should learn to not be offended by anything they consider casual. It's always that side which starts the argument.

Someone will mention Algol's lack of clothing, Ivy's boobs, something to do with CAS, something to do with story, something to do with online, something to do with anything which isn't directly related to the specifics of tournament play and someone will inevitably come in and insult everybody for their silly casual antics. The "casuals" usually defend themselves, because being insulted doesn't actually encourage friendly normal conversation.

I feel that the casual crowd should also learn not to say things that are completely stupid, but both sides could be a little more civil. But you got to see how stupid it is to see people crying about the way Algol looks from just one illustration without seeing how he looks in game, without seeing what his 2P costume is, and when you have customization in the game.
 
I just hope the online in sc5 is decent enough to be legit, as in LOW LAG.

If that's the case, I won't need to travel to play people. Although, even with the best case scenario, offline will always be more legit.

Other online games released around the same time as Sc4 have WAY more information to process and FAR less lag. They can do better this time around I hope :)
 
I was 18, I think. Maybe 19. I'm damn near 30 now. Why do you ax?
Just out of curiosity.

Totally taking it the wrong way. Most proper "elitism" is actually a push to say "I want you to prove me wrong." or "How thick skinned are you." because it does build great players (as evidenced by a majority of top players today). It's all about sifting the good potential players from the chaff. It's an old school arcade mentality. Obviously if you are willing to ignore all the insults and gain some resolve to beat the asshole who keeps throwing them at you, bam Job done, if not "You won't be missed". That is the logic behind the "elitism".
According to this logic, MrTheGamer will someday be the best SC player to even exist.
 
@Idle
It's not that I don't want to attend a tourney, hell, I would give my left testicle to go. It's lack of money, plain and simple.
 
@damn-I-suck

No I was just saying how it works. of course it doesn't work for everyone , just like punishment may not work for some kids.

I believe we do need to be more inviting but still have some kind of no BS policy.

Besides my believe that people are too soft these days, people need to ignore the elitist assholes anyways or start going to offline events...
 
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