New SCV CRITICAL GAUGE / METER - Information and Discussion

I certain most of this shit gets patched a couple months after release. If it makes it in the final product.
The meter mechanic isn't something I can take seriously.

I was hoping you would gain it from attacking.
Maybe lose some from over defending.

However, it's all over the place. And people talk about the 25% use of the GI like that's a game defining decision in meter management.
 
KingAce said:
I certain most of this shit gets patched a couple months after release. If it makes it in the final product.
The meter mechanic isn't something I can take seriously.

I was hoping you would gain it from attacking.
Maybe lose some from over defending.

However, it's all over the place. And people talk about the 25% use of the GI like that's a game defining decision in meter management.
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Meter loss from (proper) defense is generally a bad idea. Thanks in part to factors such as speed, weight, size and more. Certain characters are bound to attack more often than other characters. And other characters are bound or required to defend more often than others. It wouldn't be a very exciting game if everyone could attack at the same speed, otherwise. Not to mention, meter loss from defense would unfairly tilt the fundamental game play system to characters whose strategies are simple or complex rush downs.
 
Assuming that SC V is a game where many moves are unsafe:
I think dynamic defense (Step, Jump, Crouch) should be rewarded more than a stagnant defense (Guard).

I think successful TS (Tech Step), TJ (Tech Jump), TC (Tech Crouch) should gain more meter relative to the safety, damage and utility of the move.

E.g.
Nightmare's Dropkick
Safety: Pretty safe but puts you in a bad position. You are on the floor with your legs wide open...
Advantage on Hit: Neutral since both of you are on the floor... far away from each other.
Speed: Slow as hell
Damage: Moderate

How often it's used: Rare. Mainly just for show.
This should gain a chunk of meter on successful landing just for being awesome.

Ivy's 214(B)
Safety: Pretty unsafe.
Speed: Fast
Advantage on Hit: Yes (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I remember her shoulder ram is uninterruptable)
Damage: Moderate

How often it's used: This is one of Ivy's panic move. Probably Top 10 at least.
This shouldn't gain so much meter.

Raphael's 4A
Safety: Unsafe
Speed: Fast
Advantage on Hit: No. Not even on CH.
Damage: Low

How often it's used: Rarely because you are probably better off just stepping.
This probably should gain about the same amount of meter than Ivy's but upgrades in advantage or damage.

So yea, it's more of a move balancing issue and with the Soul Meter, it's going to be more complicated.
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Throw breaking is fine atm:
Thrower = Gains advantageous position and does damage
Throw breaker = Gains meter (in a sense, this is a minor comeback system)

I think it's fair as long as they don't overdo successful throw damage and not make throw track both sides.
 
Most of your meter gain does come from attacking. Meter gain from eating damage and defending is very low for the most part, but still seems a bit random to me.

Still, chunks of gain does come from attacking, whether your opponent eats it or defends.

I do like this idea, because the game encourages more offensive play, and rewards you with GIs, BEs, and CEs so that you can maintain the pressure.

edit: Added some info on how to perform the meter moves to the original post
 
Reignhart said:
Nightmare's Dropkick

How often it's used: Rare. Mainly just for show.
This should gain a chunk of meter on successful landing just for being awesome.

Ivy's 214(B)

How often it's used: This is one of Ivy's panic move. Probably Top 10 at least.
This shouldn't gain so much meter.

Raphael's 4A

How often it's used: Rarely because you are probably better off just stepping.
This probably should gain about the same amount of meter than Ivy's but upgrades in advantage or damage.
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I do like the idea that dumb, slow moves get you a chunk of meter, while abusable (or spammable) moves...maybe not so much.

Gauge gain is a little weird right now, since it's still in early development. However, it seems like LOW attacks don't gain so much meter. It's hard to observe anything consistent at this moment, but it's a theory that I'm gonna throw out there.

While we're at it, I'm not sure what exactly the correlation is between attack damage and meter gain. Is it the amount of damage a move does? How fast or slow it is? Does the hit level matter? (HIGH, MID, LOW). I'd like to have these answered.

**

Since someone mentioned throw breaking, I'd like to comment. Breaking a throw does give a bit of meter just because you take damage from breaking throws now. I know people are on the fence about being penalized for breaking a throw, but I actually support this new direction.

More defensive options should be considered, as opposed to the solid guarding while breaking throws strategy which is just simply too effective, even with the throw mix-ups. Like Idlemind said in Brian Hates Speech article, it's a surcharge for standing there and eating a throw attempt, as opposed to tech crouching, tech jumping, or attacking to interrupt.

You DO, however, get a bit of meter for it since you take some damage, while the thrower gets ZERO meter.

Once again, I do applaud the efforts of Namco to encourage more aggressive and offensive play, as opposed to overly defensive play. Turtle players still have good defensive options in the form of Just-Guard (which builds meter), being able to Guard Impact ALL hit levels, and extremely FAST CEs (interrupting an opponent's incoming attack with your own CE should be a nice reward for being patient).

But encouraging more attacking and fast paced fighting would make matches more exciting and fun to watch (THIS GAME IS FLASHY).
 
Mage said:
I would just like to add that I believe the Soul Gauge seems to charge itself over time without any attack/block required. It is very slowly; but still is a contributing factor.
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HMM. That's weird if this were true!

I'll keep an eye out for this.
 
Idk what they did to have the meter to go up on its on when the person didnt hit the oponnet. The Game be Cheatin'!!=P

IZZY
 
UGH!

Out of frustration, I edited the original post. Instead of LOW METER build, I changed it to "Things that build random or uncertain amount of meter," to more accurately reflect how much we know about this damn meter system.

Meter gained out of blocking certain attacks or eating certain attacks varies too much at this moment.

What I observe consistently is that attacking definitely builds more meter than defending. The difference isn't huge, but it IS the difference between you having a Critical Edge on deck, and your opponent not having one.
 
Mage; I did notice that meter does build slowly on its own, though I don't know for how long; it seems to do more in the first bar of each level, slows down in the second, then stops around the 3rd bar until you get to the next level of build up then repeats. So, it's kinda like, if you're immediately thrown on the defensive, they're giving you a chance to use GI or BE early on, but you still have to wait on it so you can't just whip it out immediately. Though, honestly, I'd rather them just start each side off with one bar and just leave it; that way if you need to GI early on you can then work on building the rest of the meter on your own. It seems a little weird to me that they'd put in a system where you have to build meter but then have a setup to where if you just wait it out you can just build it up from regen. o.o
 
I love the game, all of it, but i know its not complete, the only thing it bothers me is the damage after throw breaking, but maybe they will change that too so, now i shut up and enjoy, another thing guys dont count that the moveset some chars have is going to be the final one, i leave this vid from soul 4 so you can see, remember its a demo
 
Windstar said:
Meter loss from (proper) defense is generally a bad idea. Thanks in part to factors such as speed, weight, size and more. Certain characters are bound to attack more often than other characters. And other characters are bound or required to defend more often than others. It wouldn't be a very exciting game if everyone could attack at the same speed, otherwise. Not to mention, meter loss from defense would unfairly tilt the fundamental game play system to characters whose strategies are simple or complex rush downs.
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Did the thought that the slower attacking characters would generate more per attack then the faster attacking characters when you originally wrote that? Rewarding for defense is generally a bad idea, as it encourages excessive turtle. There are many ways to implement meter growth tailored to each individual character. Larger characters could lose less meter per block/grant less meter per block to the attacker, or they could gain more meter every time they attack then a standard sized character. In the end, you can properly balance one mechanic as long as there are other variables you can tinker with.
 
InsanerBrainer said:
I feel like taunting should build meter. It's gotta be useful for something.
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they had that before but got rid of it because it was broken. knock away opponent-taunt. throw opponent-taunt. It was dumb especially for characters with fast taunts. I like them how they are. taunts. it's even used as a luring strategy for some players.
 
OmegaXCN said:
From whiffing!

Hilarious!

Maybe it's the just frames.
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Meter building from whiff has generally never been looked down upon in 2D games and was actually quite missed in SFIV and especially in MvC3.

Meter build on whiff can make the game more interesting since it benefits both keep-away; by letting keep-away characters build meter just by spacing and zoning out their opponent and rushdown; by allowing rush/offense characters to build meter to get in.

In games without that (but with meter) it gives characters with moves that can build meter from afar advantages over those who can't.
InsanerBrainer said:
I feel like taunting should build meter. It's gotta be useful for something.
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Daishi might as well borrow another thing from 3rd Strike and make taunts have special, character specific properties.
 
I would like to see maxi taunts get meter boosts, but not everyone. Taunting doesn't have to give meter for all characters. In Nightmare's case it could give him soul charge... Characters need more identity and stop clinging to the system's core rules so much.
 
Whiffing, taunting...I thinking you guys want Soul Charge. I mean if you're going to get free meter from losing twice in a row...just add Soul Charge to the game.
 
Sp1d3r said:
Characters need more identity and stop clinging to the system's core rules so much.
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100% this.

When the core rules are strong and individual characters don't provide much deviation from it except frames and move animations; the game ends up being very bland. This, in my opinion, is Tekken's primary design flaw.

Street Fighter's character diversity almost entirely comes from "breaking the rules" style options, or characters heavily aspected towards a particular mode of play. There are some core rules at play, but some characters bend or break them. SC5 needs to sit up and take note of this, if we don't want every character to be dissected into "good low, good tracking, good damage, good CE". There needs to be more to think about. Much much much more.

Some good examples from SC4: Hilde Charges, Tira mood shifting, Nightmare "soul charge" stance, Mi-Na "tip hit" different properties, Yun CR non-moving but with auto-evades, Rock focus on throw mixups instead of combos, Kiliks ton of options specifically designed to disrespect your frames... I could write more on this.

My biggest fear for SC5 is the core system becoming the focus of the game rather than the glue which holds the game together. BE's provide a pathway for those unique options to cost meter; and the developers shouldn't be afraid to use them in that fashion.
 
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