Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

blocking apat's twister is already really good for you (free 4(B) combo). Blocking nightmare's 22B is something else, as you can only punish him if somehow there isn't enough pushback for you to wrB him. You cannot 236B him because 22B is too safe.

In fact, I think 22B is one of those moves that really gives raph trouble (safe, and tech steps like crazy). It all works out, because raph's 3(B)~prepBB can punish nightmare's 3AA reliably so the matchup is pretty interesting.
 
Being able to punish the second hit of 3AA isn't all that important because you should be JGing it anyways.

One thing that helps Raph a lot in this matchup is the fact that Prep BBB → A+BA combo enders work very consistently against Nightmare. If you hit him out of NSS b:A with 4(B) after blocking his 3(B), he's even turned at the perfect angle for A+BA ender without having to do any stepping to get it to work.

If you block 88B, you can force Nightmare to block 236B for great guard damage (even CE comes out too slow to beat 236B at -16) and Nightmare has no generic FC A to punish 236B with.

Raph's 2K game also makes this hell for Nightmare if you read him properly. Even if he tries to backdash out of it you can nail him with CH 6BB BE.
 
Does manually ducking and doing FC2B always work for every of Nightmare's stance entries?? I'm still having trouble dealing with NSS and Grim stride since I haven't memorized all of the specific moves that kill NM's stance entries in different situations. And that annoying 22B!! Got whooped by my brother's NM *sigh

And also since NM outranges Raph, should I zone NM more, get in his face, or stay at range 2??
 
Fendante said:
Does manually ducking and doing FC2B always work for every of Nightmare's stance entries?? I'm still having trouble dealing with NSS and Grim stride since I haven't memorized all of the specific moves that kill NM's stance entries in different situations. And that annoying 22B!! Got whooped by my brother's NM *sigh

And also since NM outranges Raph, should I zone NM more, get in his face, or stay at range 2??
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For all of NM's stances, the easiest option select is 2A. 22B is a very strong tool against Raph, but it's very easy to step on reaction or JG for outrageous -'s. Just don't throw too many verticals at random. And for the range, you don't really outrange him, and he moves quicker, but your long range whiff punishes are better than his, and you can also block punish him from range too. You can play the zoning game 'till he gets frustrated or has to attack you and he's weaker than you at close range. Just watch out not to get sidestepped into 3B there. It royally hurts.
 
Yeah I think throwing too many vertical randoms was one of my problems since my brother likes to step sooo much (somehow I can't discourage step even with 22A and 2A for example...guess he's that stubborn). Thanks for the tips. I'll give it another shot later.
 
best way to discourage step is 1k in my opinion. Its great for when u know ur opponent think step is the best way to stop raph
 
youngfox said:
best way to discourage step is 1k in my opinion. Its great for when u know ur opponent think step is the best way to stop raph
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Thanks...(I know Im posting a lot today) but doesn't 1K track to Raph's strong side?? I should mention he knows which side is my strong side. And also, I have realized that psychology causes my losses rather than gameplay errors. I need to find some ways to avoid getting into even a small panic mode or otherwise I forget to do mixups, do certain moves, and forget how to counter or avoid certain situations. It's harder to stay perfectly calm and patient than I thought.
 
In all honesty i really havnt had that move stepped. In my experience if i know someone is gonna abuse step than i start grabbing more and tossing out 1k
 
youngfox said:
best way to discourage step is 1k in my opinion. Its great for when u know ur opponent think step is the best way to stop raph
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I need to start using that more. I never go into training mode anymore and that makes me forget moves, it's pretty bad.

Speaking of step kill 11K or rather 661K works well and the very, very underused 22K tracks all for like 70 something damage with meter. I need to start using it myself. It is slow and high, but very rewarding on a good read.
 
Reptile said:
I need to start using that more. I never go into training mode anymore and that makes me forget moves, it's pretty bad.

Speaking of step kill 11K or rather 661K works well and the very, very underused 22K tracks all for like 70 something damage with meter. I need to start using it myself. It is slow and high, but very rewarding on a good read.
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I really need to be confident like Raph when I play so I can remember my best options during a match lol. Thanks for the reminder. 22K may be weak like 22A but it does guarantee big damage if you land a CH. It is good against people who abuse step and if they begin to fear it or start ducking it, just start mixups!!
 
About risk vs reward...your Pyrrha example was cool and made sense. Let's talk about Prep on block (On hit I feel it's pretty good). When we enter Prep on block, step, TC, and i12/i13 moves will beat out many Prep options. We already know SE just makes it worse. I still think the amount of risk overwhelms the amount of reward. Even if we manage to land Prep attacks, they're unsafe on block without Prep re-entry and now we're in a circle all over again. Namco, gimme a break, not even one safe exit from Prep???
 
generally i prefer prep on block off of mostly 3b and 66b. most people dont react to 3b itself so i can do manual SE entry for a gd mix up. if they step still get a free SE entry into SEK, if they wanna TC then theyd have to react to the prep entry and not the stance itself. Most TC are unsafe so you could always bait it by no going into prep and punishing. though a quirky example for pyraa's who love 3a is that you can do 3b immediate prep k to trade and then combo 11k to get a bit more dmg off of the trade than she does. i12/i13 have problems w prep bb which is great dmg on CH for us. We have an answer to all situations (even bullrush) for respectable dmg. Again i assume we have the life lead because we should be trying to space out but once they are in then prep is a very gd option
 
Yup life lead is what I assumed too. I should have specified yeah, but it seems 3b and 66b are the only two good Prep entry moves on both hit and block. All of the different situations you presented are logical, but don't you have to react fast though and make a guess though. We can't easily but they're actually going to do next.

And youngfox, you seem pretty comfortable with Raph's design in SCV. You do have some improvements you wish for right??
 
though 4b and 44ab has there purpose. i use 4b as an amazing long range poke where that the -2 prep entry isnt too bad. Again my main goal w prep is to go immediately into SE, prep options are only to stop those whose challenge my SE entry. so always going into prep of a range 4b gives u a pretty safe SEB/SEA mix up. i use 44ab on wake up as a mid alternative to 11k. the series has soo many spots where raph can stop that most people dont punish
 
np i always like a gd discussion. i gotta get on that school grind starting next week. time to get more flight hrs

EDIT: all i want back for raph is the old 22b combo, it would make him a threat at all ranges
 
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