Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

I think Raph is fun, and playable - not great, but usable in a tournament, and definitely fine against bad people. I'm not holding my breath for a patch to make anything better...keep in mind that Raph got much worse after SC4 got patched, and I see to recall that he also got worse from SC3 to SC3AE (though, I didn't play AE much, cause, well, it was AE and our arcade had just closed). New people on project soul may change this, but I wouldn't get your hopes up...
 
piggy said:
I think Raph is fun, and playable - not great, but usable in a tournament, and definitely fine against bad people. I'm not holding my breath for a patch to make anything better...keep in mind that Raph got much worse after SC4 got patched, and I see to recall that he also got worse from SC3 to SC3AE (though, I didn't play AE much, cause, well, it was AE and our arcade had just closed). New people on project soul may change this, but I wouldn't get your hopes up...
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It's obvious the game was rushed so there's little chance of a patch as there won't be any money in it. All there will be is DLC costume parts and perhaps Dampierre. He should be free and should never have been taken out as a preorder (presumaly he's on disc anyway).
If they think Raphael is okay then Namco should give up and find another job. Was he even playtested?

Being abel to download replays from other players would help as well. I don't know how they botched that but I can see no way to do it.
 
Yes, he was play tested. Do you play on PSN? Do you wanna session - see with how many characters you can beat me, let alone eat me alive? Raph has cute options that help him get out of situations that other people couldn't get out of. 4A dodging the second hit of Pyrrha 66B BE is a great example of this. I'm sure there are more that we haven't found yet but will find - times to interrupt with 4A, or 8A+B or 4A+B or B+K that will get out of pressure (or even do damage), it'll just take work and perseverance.
 
piggy said:
I think Raph is fun, and playable - not great, but usable in a tournament, and definitely fine against bad people.
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do you know that raph was considered mid tier until one day near the end of scIV life malek said how bad he was? so nobody cared at all.
People just cried about BB and it was removed....

imho raphael is almost autowin against any bad players.....

problems starts when you meet a player with complete knowledge of the character....there he becomes boring.


could you provide some Patsuka, patroklos, cervy or any phyrra vids against you when you happen to have the chance?
maybe i am completely wrong and i miss something ....




@ghost i find nightmare matchup for example quite fun and easy, you can use a huge amount of moves against him but that was one of raph best matchups even in the past.
Historical bad matchup is any of alexandra family.....between hitbox issues and moves that completely screws his moveset.
 
piggy said:
Yes, he was play tested. Do you play on PSN? Do you wanna session - see with how many characters you can beat me, let alone eat me alive? Raph has cute options that help him get out of situations that other people couldn't get out of. 4A dodging the second hit of Pyrrha 66B BE is a great example of this. I'm sure there are more that we haven't found yet but will find - times to interrupt with 4A, or 8A+B or 4A+B or B+K that will get out of pressure (or even do damage), it'll just take work and perseverance.
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Thanks, but no i play on XBL.
 
Fendante said:
@Ghost whistler
Omg namco giving up and finding another job. You're getting too extreme aren't you eh??? Namco gave you Raph in the first place!!! And the same to you, if you're not compatible with Raph, choose a different character.

And to both of you: Raph can get eaten by every character, but Raph can destroy other characters too. It depends on the skill of the player. Raph is not for everyone....he's not easy but he's not terrible. And stop the whining and moaning on this thread!!! We should be discussing how to improve strategies and to overcome weaknesses.
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Extreme? No i don't think so, we just live in an age where it's easier for publishers to get away with less and less while asking more. There is no reason why this game takes more steps back than it takes forward. Why make changes that weren't necessary? Why alter gameplay to pander to people that aren't going to play the game anyway? Why remove characters that are already established? Why sell Dampieere as DLC? If you are going to release a game and charge me £40 for it then you better make sure it's as good as it can be. Do you think SC5 is? Games these days are far too reliant on DLC, patches and giving the least amount of content they can get away with. SC is a franchise with a history and a theme, it's about the weapons, the characters and the history. NONE of this is present in SC5. Instead we have new characters and mimics. Even the character creation options are not as good as last time (not so far at least).

It's easy to say 'just learn a different character', but it's not as simple as that. I've invested time since buying this to learn to play him. Giving that up is a tall order, no matter how logical that might sound. People simply don't work that way. We get invested in what we're doing and want to continue. I would like to believe Raphael can be decent because i've learned how to do his moves. But what i'm seeing, when i fight with him online (offline is nojudge as the AI is insane), is that he simply has no answer to other characters. Nightmare for instance is played by people that almost exclusively have huge w/l ratios compared to everyone else (he's far from the only one that can out fight raphael) and he just steamrolls him. Same with pretty much everyone else. Raphael's moves lack priority in almost every situation and his recovery times pretty much across the board are very slow for what he can do. That isn't balance IMO. I've had players catch me when i thrust 44b/4b at them or 66b and even throw me. Very little he can do beats anything. 4a is slow, especially against characters like pyrrha who can throw lightning fast stabs. I just don't get why they've nerfed him so much.
 
I agree that Raphael can win, but honestly, the damage issue is staggering. I mean, 22B A+B,A is love (when in range, of course), but when I see how much freaking DAMAGE my opponents get without using meter, it's disheartening for sure.

Equally disheartening is the tracking issue. Does SE K track? Like, is it supposed to? Perhaps I'm thinking of the wrong move, but it's the one where Raph lunges forward, whipping his leg around while spinning in a mid-level kick. I had that cleanly stepped last night while my opponent was backed against the open cliff. So I ask, is this consistently stepped? It was to Raph's left, so maybe it doesn't track that way...?
 
darkfender said:
@ghost i find nightmare matchup for example quite fun and easy, you can use a huge amount of moves against him but that was one of raph best matchups even in the past.
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I don't see how it's fun or easy. Nightmare has everything going for him: speed, range, damage. He can throw from a ridiculous distance as well and has that annoying burst.
 
ghost_whistler said:
I don't see how it's fun or easy. Nightmare has everything going for him: speed, range, damage. He can throw from a ridiculous distance as well and has that annoying burst.
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That burst can be baited and subsequently punished. Sometimes you can even hit him and block depending on the move. Anyways, it sounds like you treat this game way too one-dimensionally. Sure enough Nightmare wins in the damage department, but "speed" is situational and range is definitely situational. You can step a lot of his stuff and it's not like at even frames Nightmare wins all of your moves. Complaining about bad recovery on 66B and 44B is kind of silly. You're +2 on block with 66B and even more with Prep cancel not to mention it's a guard breaker. The move is bad on whiff for a reason (and that is balance). 44B has amazing evasive properties and the knockdown should shift the momentum to you. All these complaints just makes it sound like you want him to be a godman with no weaknesses.

The only fighting game with true 5-5 matchup balance is Karate Champ. Because you play the same character. Diversity is the enemy of balance. There is absolutely no fighting game that will ever be perfectly balanced if they aim for differing characters. Like so many have stated before.. it's up to YOU as a player to work to win the odds.

Also.. was Dampierre confirmed to be a paid DLC? For all I know he was revealed to be a preorder bonus and nothing more. For example Infamous had these Gigawatt Blades for preorder and they were later released for free and that's not even the only example. You can shoot Namco after all is said and done but we are STILL playing this game on the second(?) week.
 
DigitalCount said:
Equally disheartening is the tracking issue. Does SE K track? Like, is it supposed to? Perhaps I'm thinking of the wrong move, but it's the one where Raph lunges forward, whipping his leg around while spinning in a mid-level kick. I had that cleanly stepped last night while my opponent was backed against the open cliff. So I ask, is this consistently stepped? It was to Raph's left, so maybe it doesn't track that way...?
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I've just done a fast test :
 
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Yeah i've stepped it in a match vs the cpu. Not that I find it acceptable, but at slightly closer range prepAB wil track that side no problem.
 
I dont care if this character is "more difficult" to use...obviusly he have bad things in the gameplay...but is my main and i dont care if i have to work hard to win...if someone wants a character more easy to use, you have natsu, xiba and much more...with Raphael obviously you have MORE credits if you win...please stop with the pessimism, let´s play
 
Kurdijef said:
Also.. was Dampierre confirmed to be a paid DLC? For all I know he was revealed to be a preorder bonus and nothing more. For example Infamous had these Gigawatt Blades for preorder and they were later released for free and that's not even the only example. You can shoot Namco after all is said and done but we are STILL playing this game on the second(?) week.
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I assume he will be, there's a spare character space and not releasing him at all would be monumentally stupid. Its extrmely unlikley MS will let them give him away.
 
ghost_whistler said:
But that's not Shadow Evade, that's just prep.
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Sorry, english is not my first language, i was confused by "a Mid-level kick" in the sentence.
SE K can be stepped on Raph right side if the opponent is not directly in front of you when you enter SE.
In normal time, it track.
 
i think it's very sad: they've got the online right and the graphics are stunning. But the gameplay isn't up to par. This response is pretty poor IMO.
 
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