Siegfried General Discussion / Q&A

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
Welcome to the Siegfried General Discussion thread.

Please feel free to discuss anything related to Siegfried's gameplay here.
 
I love this character's infinite throw range. It makes me jealous that my character doesnt have it
 
A shame they don't deal damage really.

I would sacrifice 4 damage for extra range easily.

As I see it, throws are i17 unblockable high pokes. Every (front) throw that connects results in either some kind of throw break or a successful throw. Assuming you're mixing up A and B randomly, your opponent is guessing randomly, and there are no factors such as wallsplats or ringouts, your expected per-throw damage is (A throw dmg + B throw dmg) / 4. So, Sieg deals on average 23.75 damage per (front) throw. Compare this with say Algol, who deals 110 /4 = 27.5 damage per throw, 3.75 more damage. Or Aeon, who does 120/4 = 30 damage per throw...so okay, that's like 6 damage per throw, a bit more of a difference than I thought.

Still though. You get a throw/mid mixup after blocking a bunch of moves that would push most characters too far away.

Thoughts?
 
I would sacrifice 4 damage for extra range easily.

As I see it, throws are i17 unblockable high pokes. Every (fromt) throw that connects results in either some kind of throw break or a successful throw. Assuming you're mixing up A and B randomly, your opponent is guessing randomly, and there are no factors such as wallsplats or ringouts, your expected per-throw damage is (A throw dmg + B throw dmg) / 4. So, Sieg deals on average 23.75 damage per (front) throw. Compare this with say Algol, who deals 110 /4 = 27.5 damage per throw, 3.75 more damage. Or Aeon, who does 120/4 = 30 damage per throw...so okay, that's like 6 damage per throw, a bit more of a difference than I thought.

Still though. You get a throw/mid mixup after blocking a bunch of moves that would push most characters too far away.

Thoughts?
You just blew my mind.
 
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[notice]Moved the Natsu discussion to her match-up thread since it evolved from general to specific anti.

And we're really going to get back on the "Siegfried doesn't have the tools ______ does :(" wagon so soon? Really, guys?[/notice]
 
Ok so I've been trying to find a backthrow set up for sieg off the wall and have got a decent one, but it is character specific, and requires a different input for the different characters it works for. So I'll explain but first the characters it works on are:

Pyrrha- step back
Natsu-step back
Leixia-step back
Siegfried- step forward
Apat- step forward
Ivy- step back
Rugi- step back
Yoshi-back
Roth-step back
Xiba-step forward
Voldo

So the set up works off of any 3(B) W! (high wall). I used 22A W!>3(B) W!, but you could just have easily used WR B> SCH K BE> iaga W!>3(B) W!. But the idea is to land 3(B) W!> SCH step in a direction (listed above)> SCH A as opponent's feet hit the ground. This'll leave them standing BT infront of you open to the grab.

You should note that this only works against opponents holding guard (or holding nothing), if the opponent attempts to step all you get is a sidethrow or whatever you want if you anticipate it.

You should also note that failing the set up on any character listed above still gets you a side throw attempt, and doing the set up on any character not listed above will get you a side throw attempt (except for Tira who turns around too quickly).

Input example, Rugi: 22A W!>3(B) W!>SCH 4 (step back while he's sliding down the wall)>SCH A> A+G/B+G
 
I have a similar setup that works on all characters. It works every time off of a high wallsplat behind siegfried.
So for example after FC B+G:

FC B+G~2(G)~wrB~SCH A~Backthrow

You need to delay the SCH A a little bit.

Sick set up, but it fails on the same characters mine fails on, atleast the few i've tested (nightmare, cervy), also it is somewhat inconsistent against the characters I listed above as "step forward" (like apat). Still, any backthrow set up is a good one Kappa
 
I've got it to work on cervy but now that you mention it, its inconsistent. I've noticed though, that like with your setup, stepping seems to alter the outcome. For cervy for example the consistency seemed to get quite a boost when instead of delaying, you use a small backstep. Nightmare generally resulted in a frontgrab but stepping in some directions enabled a sidethrow. So maybe there are more characters where this setup works. The angle of the FC B+G seems to matter too.
 
Just a quick question. I don't use 66A a whole lot so I never really tested it, and I don't see it posted anywhere. Exactly what attacks does it GI?
 
Hello Wid0maker!!!

I wouldnt say never use it. firstly its horizontal GI frames activate 1 frame sooner than baseholds does. on top of that it is much easier to execute from crouch than iRCC B+K, and because iRCC still takes time, 66A still comes out faster.

on top of that the damage you get off it, isnt HORRIBLE, though it isnt great, but it does re-zone the opponent out pretty well on successful aGI, which makes it rewarding in its own sense.

its really a matter of pick your poison - do you wanna rely on stance roulette and risk of CH if your opponent guesses right? or do you wanna simply take your WR punishment and go on about life?

personally here is how i use things:

I use things like B+K ~ SBH aGI for things that i can react to. slow horizontal lows, chargeable guard crush mids like say, asta 44A, and even sometimes strings if i feel they will finish them.

I use 66A if i need an aGI from crouch, or if im under pressure and i expect a horizontal, for some other strings that B+K will either not be fast enough for, or that i need to aGI from crouch, and very rarely depending on my opponents habits, i might use it as an advancing move if i expect a horizontal.

and of course both of them can be used in an attempt to make a read on 2A mashing.

of course because it is so slow and reactable, you dont want to ever try to use it as a step kill or the like - you're just giving the opponent free damage otherwise.

but its all up to your judgement where and if this has a place in your game. personally I have found niche use for this move in the past, and so long as a proper situation presents itself, I will use it again from time to time.

I hope this helped you with everything you needed to know! ^-^ feel free to ask anymore questions you may have!
 
I wouldnt say never use it.
I wouldn't say so either.

The range can surprise people. It's best when they're stepping around playing hard to get. If they're fishing for whiffs, they'll think they've backstepped out of range but it still hits them. And if they sidestep too late to duck or guard when they see the guard break crackle it'll hit them of course.
 
I wouldn't say so either.

The range can surprise people. It's best when they're stepping around playing hard to get. If they're fishing for whiffs, they'll think they've backstepped out of range but it still hits them. And if they sidestep too late to duck or guard when they see the guard break crackle it'll hit them of course.
hmm...i dont know if i agree with that.

while do to judgement error i have thrown it out on occasion without achieving an aGI, and have actually somehow managed to hit someone out of a late step, or a step-attack, the move is very reactable, and if they step early enough they still have enough time to react to at least guard, and usually even to duck. while the element of catching them by surprise may allow it to land once in a blue moon, it is definitely something i would never rely on. even if they are fishing for whiffs, a good player will whiff punish using his reactions, rather than simply stepping and then throwing out an attack.

I would say if you are looking for a good advancing step kill, you need look no further than frontstep iagA. that will almost never get backstepped, is safer on whiff, is much faster making it able to kill natural step, and it isnt reactable. infact if you're consistent enough you can use it to whiff punish moves that dont have TC frames in the end of their animation.
 
Just a quick question. I don't use 66A a whole lot so I never really tested it, and I don't see it posted anywhere. Exactly what attacks does it GI?
I find it to be really nice against people that mash 2A after getting hit with 1K. It doesn't do good damage really but I think the fact they're spaced back out is a nice reward of it's own. I use it in FC situations more than SBH because RCC is too slow to me in some situations. If you think about it after hitting someone with 1K you are at -2. Doing RCC into SBH will take a minimum of 10 frames and generic 2A will hit you at i11 because they're at +2. So to me it's really impractical to do RCC into SBH after 1K if you absolutely know they're going to do 2A because it only has 1 frame of room for you to screw up and doing perfect 1 frame link 6 6 is annoying as hell.
 
Almost never using it. Sometimes after a B4 on block to have a funny confusing effect hahaha.
In fact I'm using more often 33_99A.
Since it's TC, TS and autogi antiside move, it can works in some setup. But very unsafe (it should be unblocable or give a free K on block hahaha).

PS : And Siegfried's throws still suck !
 
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