Siegfried Matchup Discussion Thread

Sandman

Sandman

Windjammers World Champion
Hey,

Saw a couple of matchups threads in some of the other SA's, thought it would be a good idea for Sieg as well. So, these are the characters that tend to kick my ass so far:

Leixia (Dear God I hate her...)
Astaroth
Nightmare

Any advice on how to deal with these characters (especially Leixia)?
 
pyyra and natsu as rush characters can really kick his ass, ide say those are his worst matchups

to be honest i fair really well against even good nightmares, i think there equal in match up, seig being better if your a better tatican

lexia is a mixed bag, i cant say for sure
i think hes pretty good against xiba
ezio is also kind of a problem for him, his slow movement + hard to get out of rushes dosent make it easy for him.
 
Well, my Leixia matchup information is largely colored by my experience with SC2 Xaing, so a few things might be off...

Leixia -> First off, A,A,B without the counterhit is unsafe. You can cram in a 6A if you're on point, or a kick at the very least for a punish. 3B would only work in the Leixia is silly and tried to attack out of disadvantage. All her new guard breaks (66B,bB (?) in particular) are steppable on reaction once you know what you're looking for. You can even use 2_8 B+K to set up SCH B, which is good if the tracking doesn't screw you.

Learn to block her lows on reaction. Most aren't very dangerous, but they will interrupt you and you need to go back to blocking after that.

Her CE isn't terribly dangerous, but her BEs are. While she's got meter to burn she's got an evil frame trap/guard crush game that you're going to have to respect.

Leixia does move around which sets you up for a lot of CH knockdowns, which you need to capitalize on. Don't get greedy with the high attacks though, as her 3B is pretty much as good as ours, though it isn't as important to her. Also she does end up tech crouching a lot, so using your kicks to interrupt her, then throwing her works really well in my experience.

Her spinning attack into low guard crush (sorry, I don't recall the new command for this at the moment) you can jump. Which does suggest that 44{B}, SBH kA+B+K would dissadue her from attempting it again.

66A is a good solution to her abuse of her really good A,A.

She can't easily get under 3A or 22_88A, so those make for better spacing tools than 6A or agA in this matchup. Also throwing 3K and 66K out on occasion does a good job of checking her.

Astaroth -> I wrote some stuff over here:
http://8wayrun.com/posts/419724/

Nightmare -> I'll preface this with the fact that I've never played a tournament caliber Nightmare, so this is going to be a bit superficial...

Being able to block his basic strings on reaction will help a lot here. He's just as telegraphed as we are, and knowing his lows are coming and punishing with 44B will pay off big.

Grim Stride isn't safe. You can hit him out of the transition pretty easily unless he uses a guard crush to cover it. His GS A will GI verticals, so you'll want to use kicks or 6A and the like to stop him. Alternatively you can block whatever he throws out of the stance and flapjack fairly reliably.

His ring out game is incredible, but since he uses the same tools we do in his game, he's just as vulnerable to a flapjack out of the ring as we are. Even better, since he'll be intimately familiar with the flapjack, he'll often open himself up to 1B at the ring edge. Make him suffer.

Don't try to hit out of disadvantage after his agA, treat it just like Siegs, only prettier. If he uses it a lot, go under it with 3{B}.

Hit him out of his stances. As Sieg players we should be pretty good at recognizing them. His fastest stuff out his side stance is high, so 3B is a good choice. Don't step it though, as he has a mid horizontal that rings out on CH.

Give him some respect when he's got meter charged, as waltzing into his GI CE will hurt, but keep in mind that it's only 40%, so if you've got a huge life advantage, you can make him burn it. And if you bait it out of him without hitting the GI, just step the move and punish.

6A is a great interrupt this fight, but it is punishable so you have to be smart about when you play it.

22_88A is your spacing move of choice here. You'll find yourself in the appropriate range for it alot if you're getting knocked around, and all the move's specs are favorable.

You can punish a lot of his lows with WR {B}. That's often a good time to spend meter for the extra damage.
 
I think all of sieg's matchups will range from 5-5 at best, to heavily in opponents favor.

Well maybe except for aeon...
 
When trying to play legit against the A1-AIs, AI-Patroklos is in a league of his own. There is something about his stance that makes Sieg wiff more. Hilde is also kinda hard imo.

AI-Nightmare is comparatively very easy to beat with Sieg. AI-Mitsu too.

Edit:
Worst 3:
Patroklos - I think main problem is his ability to close the gap while being evasive at the same time. I also find him harder to hit with verticals.
Hilde - her long range pokes catch me alot.
Pyrrah Omega - similar to Patroklos.
 
To get discussion headed towards something more fruitful than "Sieg is this, this, and this IMO, and that is all", what are your three worst matchups with Siegfried and what problems do you have with them?

For me, Ω, Mitsurugi, and Astaroth are my top three. Ω carries on the legacy of Sophitia from past generations by ruining stances and controlling 2D spacing like a cheap whore, and also having insane damage output for her punishes - there isn't much you can really do to her that you could consider "risky" without being put at a serious disadvantage. Mitsurugi also has ridiculous damage output, and has annoying as fuck okizeme. He doesn't do too bad of a job controlling spacing, either, so keeping him at your ideal range is not a simple task at all. Astaroth is an asshole who you cannot space at all, and it feels like you're in a Looney Tunes short where Siegfried is Wile E. Coyote and Astaroth is Road Runner.
 
Natsu and Pyrrah omega seems the worst for the moment. I already played a lot those match-up. They just appear impossible for me.
Patroklos, Pyrrah, Maxi, Leixia, Mitsurugi, Tira seems about 7-3...
Alpha Patroklos, Cervantes, Nightmare seems very bad too, but I lack versus about those character.
Time to leave the ship guys, hahaha.
 
No panto! You have to keep playing sieg! You were amazing at WGC, best sieg performance i have seen so far.

At topic, i can't tell if there is a matchup that is particularly easy but so far i seem to have the most trouble against Mitsu and...i dont know how to say it...raph. But its probably due to not knowing the matchup very well.
No idea if there are mu's in siegs favor, the only thing i can say is that i enjoyed playing against nm the most. Seems roughly equal or only 6-4 in NM's favor.
Playing against keev is a whole other story though...
 
Pantocrator said:
Natsu and Pyrrah omega seems the worst for the moment. I already played a lot those match-up. They just appear impossible for me.
Patroklos, Pyrrah, Maxi, Leixia, Mitsurugi, Tira seems about 7-3...
Alpha Patroklos, Cervantes, Nightmare seems very bad too, but I lack versus about those character.
Time to leave the ship guys, hahaha.
Click to expand...


Na, Sieg VS Maxi is a 4-6 atm imo, and that will soon change i guess... :p
 
Pyrrha is the biggest pain in my ass. No other character drives me to such lengths of frustration.

So how the hell do you people handle her?

Help me figure this out, from start to finish. Things to look out for. Punishments that work. Whatever you might have found that can help me put this bitch in her place.
 
It's her effervescent personality.

But seriously, I couldn't tell you for sure. I feel much more secure fighting other characters that are supposedly "high tier." It might just be unfamiliarity with the matchup.

But man, something about losing to Pyrrha awakens my reptile brain.
 
ChaosK said:
The autoGi of SBH is simply amazing against a lot of her strings. Punishes her for 90 meterless or 110+ BE.
Click to expand...

I have a question about this.

Is the auto GI dependent on an additional input, or does it work while just sitting in the stance?
 
No additional input. As soon as his sword flashes green it gi's (horizontals).

It doesn't work against verticals.

@Norik

Most people agree that the pyrrha MU is rather terrible for Sieg (one of them being Pantocrator), so neuroth isn't that far off.
I can understand that siegs range can get frustrating for pyrrha players in the hands of a well spacing sieg player though.
 
More and more I'm seeing that spacing is a bigger deal than it was in IV. For Sieg, anyway.

So what do we have for nice keep-away moves.

You could reach out and touch someone with 22_88A, 66A or aGA. I've done that a few times. But it's the middle that gets me. That area between long and close range where I'm never sure what the best tool for the moment is.

Say, how important would you say grabs are to Sieg? I rarely employ them. I mean, besides flap-jacking people.
 
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