So uh, hey...

redpanda said:
Heavy characters aren't really my thing, but it would be nice to use someone who can actually deal damage.
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Take a look at Sophie.

redpanda said:
I think some of the basics might be a problem for me. I understand a lot of it in theory, but still have some trouble say with blocking both lows and highs, and consistently.
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Blocking low will duck highs, however you'll eat mids doing this. You'll never have a perfect defense. It's just not possible, don't feel bad knowing you can't block Mitsu 2KB or Amy 2B+K on reaction. Also, even the slowest low will hit online unless you have the best connection.

redpanda said:
And also, getting stuck in what I believe are tech traps? It seems I can't get off the floor fast enough to avoid getting hit by another attack. So practise practise practise, huh?
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Some you just need to stay down for and eat the hit. Trying to get out of it will just get you in more trouble.
 
Sp1d3r said:
Kilik's B+K 6B 41236B combo guard-impacts, beats strafe, and can be stopped and mixed up to grapple or some other attack, and can ring out the opponent.
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It's unsafe at every hit in the string stopping that into a throw is like 40 frames. This reactable.

Also, watch Thugish shutdown asura:
 
Did martimouff teach you that one? XD

Anyways... If you want to learn a lightweight damage dealer, lasercakes is right, Sophie would be a good choice.
I'd also recommend Ivy if you're prepared to put in the effort - she has a big following here and I'm sure a lot of people could help you, though she will take effort.
As I said before - pick who feels most comfortable to you though - not Sophie or Ivy just because we recommended them.
 
Synraii, I wrote my post on the assumption she wants to learn stuff and improve, which seems reasonable from her post. As for choice of character: It's nice to think that (e.g.) Yoshi looks cool, but if you want to play a patient maneuvering game and not be in someone's face constantly than it's not for you because his tools don't support that.

red, to avoid tech traps, you shouldn't tech. This means when you get knocked down, just don't touch guard. Either touch nothing (play dead) or up and down to roll. Guard when you are ready to stand. Play around with it.

To learn a new character, the first step is just to see which generic slots are filled by which moves (by filled, I mean the best moves the character has to choose from that serve that function). What I mean by generic slots are things like step catchers, heavy mids, lows/grabs (for mixup), pokes, punishers, whiff punishers, interrupts, evasive moves, auto-GI's, frame traps/pressure, gauge damage, oki (tech traps/down traps), post GI, ringout. Note that the same move can fill multiple slots. Example for Voldo (front stance only for simplicity):

step catchers: AA, 3A (sort of), 66{A} (if you feel a bit crazy), 1A (at max range)
heavy mids: A+B, 1K_{K}, 3BB
lows/grabs: regular grabs, 2K (these first two are generic), 236B, 236A+G_B+G
pokes: BB, AA, 4A, FC 3B
punisher: 66:B
whiff punisher: 66:B or 236A+B or 66K or 66{A+B}
interrupts: 2A, 6BB, AA, K, 4{K}
evasive moves: 236B, 4_2_8{A+K}_A+K, A+B, 66K, 4{K}
auto-GI's: none
frame traps/pressure: 44{B}_B, 2A+B236, 4A
gauge damage: 3BB, 2A+B236A+B, A+B, 1A
oki: 2A+B on everyone, every time, unless they roll to V's left, in which case use 2K or 236B
post GI: fast option, 66:B (this is guaranteed if they don't re-GI), slow option {B+K} (guaranteed if they DO re-gi)
ringout: 1K, 236B

You learn a list like this from a guide or from random posts. You start playing around with these move firsts. You learn the combos associated with them. I.e. A+B is only a good mid if you follow it up with a good combo e.g. A+B 66B 66:B 1B. You start figuring out which moves you like more and less. I.e. many Voldo's use 66A+B for long range but I prefer 66K. The point is that because you are covering all the functional bases, by getting all this stuff down your play may not be optimal but you will never be at a loss for a decent option. I.e. if I'm at +5 at medium-far range with Voldo, what are my options? Well, since I'm at + frames I probably shouldn't do a dedicated interrupt move. I could do a long range mixup like 1{K}/236_A+G. I could pressure with 2A+B. Etc.

There are many things that a list like this will not cover, i.e. I could write many paragraphs here about just how 2A+B and its follow ups play out, how to try to handle 2A+B on CH, how there are many combo enders for combos involving 66B and how to choose. That you will learn later on. But a list like this will give you an idea what to try out first, what's reasonably effective. Of all the moves here, beyond generic moves like AA, BB and grabs, there are only a few moves that I can say with confidence every decent Voldo uses heavily. So you have a lot of flexibility.

Sadly I don't know Talim, Tira or X well at all so I can't give examples you would better recognize. If you have any questions or follow ups or want help finding a character that meets certain attributes, then let me know. Btw, if heavy characters aren't your thing and you want to deal good damage than Sieg might not be for you. He's one of the slowest characters in the game, and his normal hit damage is quite mediocre. I often recommend Amy to beginners, because she's a simple strong character. You won't be crippled by the character, and you have a very simple game-plan to execute. She has very good step so this will encourage you to start stepping which is one of the hardest things for beginners to get in the habit of. But of course if you don't like her appearance, style, whatever, then don't use her.
 
Lasercakes said:
It's unsafe at every hit in the string stopping that into a throw is like 40 frames. This reactable.

Also, watch Thugish shutdown asura:
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Thugish didn't shut down Asura - Asura ALLOWED itself to be shut down, you can't completely shut down a move as potent as Asura.
Btw, great Asura game to play vs. Xianghua if they're lazy - stop at the second hit - block the delayed 4A+B then asura the second hit - funny shit to watch XD
 
Amy has less damage potential than Sieg nirf, she just hits a lot more... Sophie's the obvious choice - good generic tools, fast, has TAS B TAS B:4 and is fairly easy to learn (not so easy to master though)

Tira is one of my seconds - so I'll happily give you some pointers in PMs if you want?
 
talim can be pretty easy to LEARN. she is tough to win with on account of her low damage and high risk-low reward style. for talim, as with every character, is unpredictability. with talim dancing through the air, your opponents will stare in awe when they get whooped....unless the know what to do. again, easy to learn and difficult to win, but i have the most fun playing her than any other character.
 
Synraii said:
Thugish didn't shut down Asura - Asura ALLOWED itself to be shut down, you can't completely shut down a move as potent as Asura.
Btw, great Asura game to play vs. Xianghua if they're lazy - stop at the second hit - block the delayed 4A+B then asura the second hit - funny shit to watch XD
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Asura is easy to shut down if it isn't used correctly. I think the point that Laser was trying to make was that you can't use it as a mixup (Which you can't).

Back to Redpanda:

Xianghua is definitely the best out of those three. That's not to say you can't use talim or tira, but X outclasses them by a lot. To summarize:

Talim has a lot of built in mixup that isn't actually mixup considering most her stance changes can be shut down easily with one answer by most the cast. Online, Talim can be a huuuuuge beast, considering the fact it's harder to react to her stances due to lag. Offline, her stances are pretty easy to react to, and the player has to be incredibly smart to do well with her. (Watch Zeroeffect's talim if you want to see some of how she should be played. His talim is great.)

Tira can unleash boatloads of damage from pretty much nowhere. (Try out the combo JS :4::A:::A: :4::4::K: GS :4::B:::B:::B: iWS:B: to see what I mean) Despite what others will tell you, she doesn't hurt herself more than her opponent. I actually think tira's way better than people give her credit for, but she still sits near bottom of the characters. She'd be much better if she could change stance at will, but unfortunately that keeps her from a LOT of her potential.

X is incredibly solid and has a lot of cool stuff. Watch some of the videos of Mick at FSAK, I love watching that guy play her. :P
 
You guys are awesome! What exactly is an interrupt, though? Like a fast attack? And sometimes I see the letter "i" put before other letters, it seems most commonly WS. Does that mean it's a just frame? If there's a better place to direct all of these questions, please let me know. ^ ^;
 
Yes an interrupt is a fast attack, one you use to defeat slow moves by opponent when at - and to to defeat fast ones when at +. iWHATEVER just means WHATEVER entered as fast as possible, including any just frames possible.
 
Often too moves that are ideally suited for interrupts have really good properties on CH - counter-hit. If you hit someone after they have already entered a command but before the command impacts, you've just hit them on counter hit. This also applies in some situations if you hit them stepping to the side, or backwards. If you hit them while they are recovering from the move, while crouching, etc any other situation it is NH - normal hit.

The classic example of an interrupt move (and one of the most threatening interrupts in the game) is Yoshi's iMCF - instant Manji Carve Fist, 2a:B. It's one of the fastest moves in the entire game, and tech crouches instantly. On normal hit, it just does like 10 damage or something piddling. On CH, it inflicts a stun that allows a 55+ damage combo. Another good example is Mitsurugi's 3A. While it's not so scary fast, like iMCF on CH it has a nasty stun that leads to huge damage.

At the same time by the way, I just gave an example of a move with an i before it. Some moves can normally only be done FC (from crouch) or WS (while standing, that is your character needs to be crouching, and as you release crouch you enter the input). If you want to access those moves while you are standing you can do it by entering 2G (to crouching) and then instantly entering the input for the move. An iFC move takes in theory only one frame longer than than FC equivalent. Good example: Yoshi has a good move, FC3K which is an i19 low that knocks down. You can do it from standing as iFC3K with the input 2G3K. In other words, hit 2 and G together and then immediately hit 3 and K together. It will come out at i20. You can do the same thing for WS, i.e. Sieg's WSB is a good move. So you can do iWSB as 2G~B. The tilde here I put because you need a very short delay with the iWS moves, they do not come out 1 frame slower but at least a few.

Amy's damage potential is just fine, she does more damage on normal hit than Sieg. The reason why I suggest Amy over Soph is because Amy's game plan is actually much simpler than Soph's. Soph has no way to make the opponent duck. A lot of her game depends on punishing (knowledge of frames, tight execution) and whiff punishing (requires advanced understanding of 8 way movement). Amy can punish and whiff punish well too when you are able, but if you are unable to do those things you can do fine by running up and toe-stabbing. Also Amy's execution is much easier than Soph's. On the other hand, it's a little tricky to deal with step as Amy, her AA is garbage while Soph's AA is quite solid. Another thing that I like about both these characters for beginners: they have good auto-GI's. This will make you use the auto-GI's and help transition to using normal GI's.
 
Then we can say the same about EVERY low tier.

Because, pretty much, to play a low tier effectively you have to learn excellent basics.
 
I've pretty much decided to focus on Xianghua. Once I get better I'll try my hand with the lower tier characters I like, such as Talim and Tira. And who knows from there; it's going to be a while before any of that anyway. I suck pretty badly right now. >.>

Anyway, any discussion about who I should pick is now for your own benefit. I appreciate all of your suggestions. :D
 
The best UK Xianghua is without question Age of Truth - if you have XBL, I'm sure he'd help you out - he's a really nice guy!
(Sry to blow smoke up ur ass Duncan XD)
 
God I hate X online. Frigging slow lows and string abuse galore. But she's a pretty solid character. There's a solid X on XBL called... something with a K. Kura something maybe. There's some minor abuse with him but not too bad, very playable.
 
Slow lows? :3 I could see strings; didn't know she had any powerful lows. You mean like Astaroth/Rock type annoying?
I do have Live, however I'm from the east coast of North Carolina, USA. I dunno know how bad the lag would be going across the Atlantic.
 
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