Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

This isn't necessarily indicative of anything. They did that same trailer focus two-point gag on every character, even Hilde and Siegfried... even Amy. It just gets accentuated with Cassandra because of her natural bouncy stance and her outfit, so if it's getting any extra effect, that would be why.

(I guess I missed this originally because it was the last one on the last page, just now seeing this if you're wondering why the late reply.)


I don't think anyone really disagrees that they should have been in the base game. Hwang and Lizardman should also have been in the base game, and even 2B, since they had secured her rights back in January after the game was announced in December. The season pass being Rock, Li Long, Yun-seong, and Setsuka would have been far better, in a "fair" situation for the game to be in, but that's just not the reality that we're in. If we do get there with season two, however, what would your thoughts be?

You know, I'm always stuck in a mixed impression of what we got with VI. On the one hand, some of the content (the roster, the stage selection, the CaS catalog) are unforgivably underdeveloped for a SC game. On the other hand, there are the market factors that I was just discussing with Starringrole. The season passes can help fill that gap if people are willing to pay, but it's unreliable, slow, and, in this case, PS haven't made any kind of commitment to additional stages, free or purchasable. I do think there is a solution though, but it's ironic that I'm voicing this while responding to you, because it's very much against your preferred priorities, I think. I think they should flip the script on DLC content. I think the campaign modes (or at least some of them) should be optional buy-in content. That way, more of the initial budget goes to essentials that are necessary to make the game itself complete and comprehensive, and those who want to buy in to the story can do so--I suspect that the average veteran player will just buy the deluxe package at launch, wanting to get everything regardless.

The problem is, I think most gamers have gotten to think of story mode as an entitlement. Titanfall, an absolutely brilliant game that got plaudits for innovating in its genre and manage to pull in quite a lot of sales despite coming out of nowhere, nevertheless had to cave to pressure and have single player in the sequel. And for Soulcal in particular, I believe that the average player (and certainly the average casual player) thinks of that perceived entitlement as constituting at least two major campaign modes: one centered on the classic characters in short play scenarios, and one where you roam around on a map doing slightly RPGsh stuff between fights, with a slightly less canonical angle on story. I think people would get awfully pissy if you start holding that content back for a charge--and by people I mean more than just you and Tres and others like you who put a premium on story. I think a lot of people would be up in arms about it. But the more I think of it, the more sense it makes. They're never go to underdeliver or drag their feet on a campaign mode. we'd still be paying the same amount for the content over-all (those of us who are vets of the franchise anyway), but we get a functional more complete game at the outset, and Namco gets kept honest about communicating deadlines, because no way people stand still for pre-ordering a campaign and then having Namco go dark on communication for quarter of a year at a time!
 
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signs were pointing to season 2, I'm just having serious doubts due to the shitty communication project soul has had and the silence.

Amy was announced in february, we are well past due for an announcement already. The cas packs have been scraps and they couldn't even get the information right for the announcement.

These things signify lack of funds, and makes me question season 2
 
I think the campaign modes (or at least some of them) should be optional buy-in content. That way, more of the initial budget goes to essentials that are necessary to make the game itself complete and comprehensive, and those who want to buy in to the story can do so--I suspect that the average veteran player will just buy the deluxe package at launch, wanting to get everything regardless.
I suppose I'm not sure if its optimal, but perhaps a model similar to how DOA functions currently? At the very least it would get people more people take an interest perhaps in testing the game out? It could net a few new fans I imagine.

If we wanted to optimize the game's story I suppose SC3 would the most simple yet detailed approach to story?
Though I do love SC6's approach.

signs were pointing to season 2, I'm just having serious doubts due to the shitty communication project soul has had and the silence.

Amy was announced in february, we are well past due for an announcement already. The cas packs have been scraps and they couldn't even get the information right for the announcement.

These things signify lack of funds, and makes me question season 2
The lack of communication is definitely very disheartening and annoying.
I don't think I'm sensing a lack of funds though? Amy pulling a switch with Cassandra so suddenly makes me think everything is technically alright?
Their behavior and lack of talk though isn't encouraging in the slightest.

Sadly its possible they're trying to be far too opportunistic by delaying Cass till an event, which at this point at very least seems like they want to do it at an event at least.
 
To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said here, with the exception of one thing.

Development costs being massive don't matter entirely at least if we take the assumption SC6 will be used as a base literally speaking (UE4 included), they can practically forward directly this game as the next in a technical sense. Season 2 could be put in the "sequel".
Production costs for SC6 were already WAY smaller than they should have been, they'd be more free to put more into the next since it would practically be an edit in some capacity. They have the freedom of selling a whole game and DLC at a yet again enhanced base. Though it may be more problematic if we consider members of the team to be fair.

My long term point being they aren't going to gain a profit or even satisfy consumers if stages for example were put in as DLC, because people would have to pay for stages which is kind of moot, 2B gained exception as a guest and if stages were pay for they would probably be in rotation far less often thus also coming back to being pointless, if they really approached it openly then it'd be fine, but I doubt they would.
Then we just continue with the inherent problems that people have with this game too.

I'm not denying Season 2 being profitable, that was far from my point, I was saying it was perfect to milk actually. But I mean considering the rest of the problems and circumstances, it being cut wouldn't be a terrible sign either, it was sort of linked to my point regarding Season 3 being a big "lolno" because they would have less to provide at that point and the game already has its own things people despise thus making less popular.

A sequel milking these aspects could milk even further with a Season pass because it has an even better base. I mean take a look, Tekken 7 hasn't added stages (to my knowledge) since home release besides reskins?
Not that Tekken 7 is a bad base, but my point is they've stuck to the same entry and it doesn't suffer from as many strong problems as SC6 that the fan base take issue with. With SC6 having a worse base, I just imagine the chances of milking too far could also fail in their eyes thus yet again profit off of a sequel that they can milk better. Season 2's cancellation can be them planning into this or they can do both.

Assuming they left UE4, then yeah sticking with SC6 is infinitely the better choice when it comes to costs and my point is well... Pointless. A cancellation under that knowledge would mean SC7 and the future is bleak, I suppose I'm being rather presumptuous assuming the UE4 base would be kept?

But regardless, I'm not really disagreeing (Unless I've been a potential moron and missed a different point entirely).

Well here's the thing as to asset portability and development for the next game: it's not going to be great. It always varies somewhat depending on a number of factors, but what we're looking at for the next game is about as work intensive as the options get: the next generation of consoles is landing next year: SCVII will definitely be on ninth generation hardware, and given the time before it is likely to drop, probably ninth generation exclusively. It will also probably be developed for a different engine. Now that doesn't rule out some assets being re-used (FluffyQuakc's probably your guy for more precise speculation as to just how much), but its certainly going to be as much work, relative the overall budget of the game, as any Soulcalibur game can be.

SCII and SCIII are games where they would have benefit from least having to start from scratch again, and SCIV and SCV next, because with those two pairs, the consoles and engines were shared in common between the sequential entries. I do think they have a pretty healthy library of CaS items they can pass along with only so much technical issue in transplanting the object files, but even with those, if you're using entirely new kinds of texturing software, who knows? Stages, story content, menus, netcode/matchmaking for the console networks, and even the balance of the basic visual elements for the new build, all of that has to constructed from scratch. Also, I think we're going to be pressuring them pretty hardcore in the run-up to the next one not to skimp on the basic content (stages especially) so that's even more work.

As you identify though, that is a potential problem: as it is, we don't want them to try to make the next game on a budget. That's why this one is so underwhelming. So it would be nice if they had a head start on content. But unfortunately, I think the next one is going to have to be substantially more expensive for them to make. I totally agree with what @Dissidia said above: this game feels like a beta version, even a year into its continuing support. I don't know that they can get away with doing that twice. Which is yet more reason why I feel like they will probably view the smart move as being getting at least two season passes out for this game. Fingers crossed anyway!

signs were pointing to season 2, I'm just having serious doubts due to the shitty communication project soul has had and the silence.

Amy was announced in february, we are well past due for an announcement already. The cas packs have been scraps and they couldn't even get the information right for the announcement.

These things signify lack of funds, and makes me question season 2
Lack of funds is a distinct possibility. For a certainty, I do think SC has rather limited priority at that company. But I have to think Cassie has been substantially finished for a while now, even so. So it's possible this is just a very ill-conceived marketing strategy. I really get the feeling sometimes that Namco's corporate culture lets marketing veto more pragmatic concerns among the in-house developers. And they seem to think that all of their consumders are children who A) will respond favourably to surprise announcements and B) you don't want to tell your plans to anyway, because they will respond poorly if you fail to meet projected deadlines. So they wait until the last minute to tell you content is done and then release. And if you plan to sell a second season pass and you got most of the first one out in a hurry, maybe you delay that last one so that you have hostage audience until around the time you want to announce it.

Thing is, at least among those who are likely to stay around for a second season pass anyway, I think the average Soulcalibur consumer is older, and would have no problem waiting patiently for that content, and would in fact be more tolerant of that wait if they knew basically what they were getting. I've been playing these games for two and a half decades....I can wait an extra six months between releases, that's not a problem. But why do I need to be in the dark about what that content is? And can't you at least hint at what your plans for further support are after the season pass? It's not frickin' contract if you say you'd like to do it, and are considering adding X, Y, and Z: we can live with the disappointment if it never ends up happening. Ok, if I'm perfectly honest, some people would be salty about it. But f--- them: those people were never going to be happy--there's just some people you can't please. Target your messaging to those of us who want to have a dialogue with you, and hear where things are going, without being too demanding. Leaving us in the dark too often is testing the loyalty of those of us who have kept the faith through SCV, Lost Swords, long years of silence on the future of the franchise, and now the base release of this game feeling rather incomplete.
 
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Releasing Cassandra as the last DLC is a simple PR trick. Since the announcement of the game, most comments on any of Okubo's tweets are "Where's Cass?".

Any logical and effective decision is to build the hype for the character everyone is crying for: giving that DLC right away might make people turn away from the upcoming DLCs as they would have what they wanted. People gave PS the stick to be beaten with.
 
Releasing Cassandra as the last DLC is a simple PR trick. Since the announcement of the game, most comments on any of Okubo's tweets are "Where's Cass?".

Any logical and effective decision is to build the hype for the character everyone is crying for: giving that DLC right away might make people turn away from the upcoming DLCs as they would have what they wanted. People gave PS the stick to be beaten with.
Maybe: Amy had a pretty massive fanbase frothing at the mouth too. Regardless of who came last though, I do believe the delay has likely been related to marketing considerations.
 
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This isn't necessarily indicative of anything. They did that same trailer focus two-point gag on every character, even Hilde and Siegfried... even Amy. It just gets accentuated with Cassandra because of her natural bouncy stance and her outfit, so if it's getting any extra effect, that would be why.

I'd say that wording is not really accurate: its not a gag, really (that is, it's not usually sent up for humour)--it's just a format for the editing; at 34 seconds in they do two quick flash cuts. But when they do it with Siegfried (and any of the rest of the characters, as best I recall) it's focused on their stern face or weapon, or awesome move. Cassie's is the only fanservice one that I can recall [edit: Or, nevermind, they make at least one of the flash cuts for each of the girls a salacious one, you were right: the only difference is that both of Cassandra's are focused on her curvy bits, rather than just one--plus the bounce effect as you noted]. In either event, I still think it's not the best sign when we're trying to determine where they may be headed with her--though I hope I'm wrong. It's been a while since LS came out, and I hope that when they were approaching VI as a reboot, studying Cassandra's classic moveset rubbed off on them, and will bring her back to being more the grounded badass, rather than continuing further down the path to be being the flying bodonka joke.
 
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They may announce Cassandra + SC World Tour during Evo and that would still be a quite big announcement. Then S2 will be reveal a bit later during a SC WT event, maybe by end of the year.

Yeah, this plan seems right 👍🏽

-> Cassandra + World Tour announcement ( and maybe a few free CAS Parts ) at EVO.

-> S2 at TGS or first big Sc oriented tournament to keep the hype by releasing from time to time characters along the world tour.
 
Was Amy revealed at an event? I don’t remember.
Cause i don’t feel like they are going to reveal Cassandra at an event...
 
So this is a thing.
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Cassandra reveal at San Diego Comic-Con? Kappa
 
Low Key compared to EVO the biggest fighting game tournament in the world where you will have the prime demographic (the fighting game demographic) watching plus SC being on the main stage.
 
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