Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

werewolfgold said:
This also looks bad. lol

But, you know. I like Bayonetta and Ivy's SCV 2P outfit. Can't win 'em all.

EDIT: Something also to keep in mind is that character designers may do things at the behest of their directors within specific parameters and guidelines. So, it's not always a slam dunk just to say that a woman designed something. I'm not trying to discount, discredit, accuse, etc. Women can certainly design the sexiest of the sexy all on their own with no input. But, just throwing that extra puzzle piece in there for consideration.
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That's the point of why I posted it lol. Women are just as capable of designing perverted or sexy design whether good or bad. Not sure about female designers in fighting games, but there are definitely some amazing female artists out there, especially in role-playing games and manga.

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Basically, to say that the game caters to male power fantasy is quite false. They made characters like Raphael and Z.W.E.I. to cater to the female fanbase. And just for added measure, they also made Aeon and Voldo for those with kinkier fantasies.

Now if it's male power fantasies we're looking for, there's Dead or Alive 6 and its core values.
 
Rusted Blade said:
That's an interesting detail, and I'm curious to know the name of that designer. Regardless, I do appreciate the extra context, though I do not think it undermines the broader argument.


I don't even know where to start here. I'll cite you some peer-reviewed research, news articles, and Department of Labor statistics if you really want to get that deep into this, but here's the basic breakdown: countries with robust game development industries employ women at proportions that range from 5% to around 20%; in the U.S. and Japan, the rates are presently around 19% and 12% respectively, which is actually up significantly from just a few years ago. Furthermore, women's representation in senior design positions are unequal even within the larger disparity. What's more, the figures scale even more drastically towards imbalance at larger publishers and developers.

I can cite all of this if you truly insist on making me waste an hour of my life to gather and link everything for you, just to respond to your knee-jerk accusation of dishonesty, but the truth is you can find all of it yourself by doing a simple google search for "gender disparity gaming industry". So perhaps you are not in a position to be accusing anyone else of failing to do their research/making shit up. Beyond all of that, I feel like if you didn't already basically know the story of this imbalance you almost certainly know next to nothing about the industry that produces something you care so much about.

And no, of course I am not in the know on precisely how the design came about. But I didn't say that I was, did I? I think if you review what I actually said, it was to the effect of "almost certainly was designed by a man", which, as a statistical matter, is an assertion I stand by--particularly considering it was in response to an argument that suggested that this an affirmatively gender-representation issue. It's very telling to me that you think the onus is on me to prove that this wasn't a statement by a woman as opposed to the person who originally made the tacit suggestion that it was*. But at no point did I intimate that I had first hand knowledge of the matter, clearly.

*(Sorry @Ardenwolf, I really had not intended to criticize further and consider you a gentleman for letting the matter go despite my sharp disagreement; I was about to post and say that I was going to do the same, since it seemed to me that for all of us here, it was becoming a case of debate dragging us to more extreme positions than we had at the beginning, but that's when WuHT made his accusations, to which I feel I must necessarily respond in full.)


I didn't take this to a gendered place, homes. I was responding to a post which had already done that, for the sake of an argument that I just happened to disagree with, as a rationalistic matter, rather than an "ideological" one. As for my "shitting all over the game", you'll find just yesterday that I was saying that the most recent developments (Hilde included) make me feel this is close to becoming the best game in the history of the franchise, which I have played and adored for nearly 25 years. What's more, I have actively gushed over ~Hilde's design~ repeatedly in the last few pages of this very thread...

So no, I was not shitting all over the game. I was having what was mostly, until now, a pretty civil and respectful discussion, one in which others had actually moved my opinion a little and one in which I would like to think I had a chance of moving others, or at least presenting them with a different vantage on the issue. What's more, all of this intellectual effort, silly as it may be, was about a a very small detail of design, a topic upon which the stakes could not be lower. If having an opinion you don't care for regarding one element of one CaS piece is your threshold for taking umbrage on behalf of the series, I don't know what to tell you, except I don't think I'm the one taking things to an out-of-proportion place.


Please quote me where I "blatantly made stuff up". Or even better, let's drop the matter for the good of the board, but if you are going to continue to make this allegation, I'd appreciate the courtesy of more specificity, because I don't think I did this or anything remotely like it, anywhere in this discussion. All I said was that I thought that the theory that this was an act of female expression of sexual liberation was highly dubious--and at the very least, not something we could presume without evidence. And again, I stand by that assertion.
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I just want to clear up a bit where I come from. There is a concerted effort by some to androgynyze women and men. To attack feminity as a thing at all. Which is, while sometimes it goes too far, one of the things I like about soul calibur it refuses to give into the androgynists. To give an example of where this anger comes from, my girlfriend, who is a lot younger than me, grew up in a more modern household and dealt with people in school and girl scouts and her family all coming down hard on her for liking and being interested in traditionally feminine things. She was emotionally and physically abused for daring to be interested in these things. Kept from making other girl friends who might teach her the things the was interested in, and made to wear plain sweat suits and keep her hair short. All she had pushed on her day in and day out was to be interested in things like trying to be a fricken CEO, when she was interested in none of those type things. She likes dresses, cooking, and loves that she can now grow her hair long. What she doesn't like is, she doesn't know how to do all the traditionally feminine things she would normally be taught or learn while younger. To quote her, "I can finally be myself, but I don't know how." She never got to explore being female because too much effort was put into turning her into some kind of androgynous thing that hid any kind of femininity.

Games are a place where people go to escape, to be something they are not, or that they wish they could be. Is why all the males are typically ripped or athletic.

But here, this is the exchange that goes on in my head when I think of Hilde and this discussion.

"Oh, hello madam, so you're going to join the troops in battle? Well that's fine, we're a very progressive militia as you well know, so we allow women warriors now. What's that? You requisitioned some armor befitting your status? Excellent, we do like demonstrating the majesty of who's in charge. Wait, you want to wear what? I'm sorry that armor just isn't acceptable. Why? Well you see, while we allow women, we expect them to dress and conduct themselves as a proper soldier. In order to be a strong force on the battle field it's important we come off as strong and masculine, so we require armor that gives off that impression. It's not that we don't allow women, we just want them to give masculine vibes. It's important to that strong warrior aesthetic. So while I appreciate your desire for intricate armor reminiscent of the men carrying similar status, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to well, cut your hair shorter and acquire new armor properly demonstrating your masculine virility as a soldier. Maybe get a large cod piece to really sell it. Women are allowed to be soldiers maddam, but they are expected to pass. See if you can't pull off a Mulan, we don't want you."

I'm just a bit sensitive to things I think are an attack on women's sexuality and identity disguised as an attempt to be progressive.

Yes women can dress and act however they want, but there's a concerted effort to attack femininity, which is something many women still fall into.

It's like those people that give girls boy toys and boys girl toys. That's not progressive, what's progressive is giving both options to both and letting them decide.

So ok, in that way, I suppose Soul Calibur has failed in that there are no masculine toyed females. Then again most games fail, they go one way or the other. No balance, which is my issue. The only balance in the gaming industry is that a game either goes one way or the other... Well no, that's not true, there are several games that allow for super feminine NPC's but give the player literally zero feminine options. So I guess what I like about soul calibur is that it's a game that stays on one side of the spectrum while more and more games are falling into the other side.
 
Rusted Blade said:
That's an interesting detail, and I'm curious to know the name of that designer. Regardless, I do appreciate the extra context, though I do not think it undermines the broader argument.
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This is the second concept artist on SC6: https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,236347/

Not familiar with her work, but that's a female name.

LisaK said:
SoulCalibur VI - Hilde Battle Director Comment :sc4hil1:
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It's curious they say the charge system is the same. There's one moment in the trailer you see the sword is charged up while Hilde's doing a normal A move, and then she does a charge 3 A move immediately afterwards. Which is not something you could do in SC4 or 5.
 
Ardenwolf said:
It's like those people that give girls boy toys and boys girl toys. That's not progressive, what's progressive is giving both options to both and letting them decide.
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That's not progressivism that's liberalism as liberal means lot. Tyrannical actions in the name of progress is nothing new to progressivsim, see prohibition (and what it lead to) for that but I'm gonna cut it here because while talking about ideologies in relation to a game in a forum it's centered around is perfectly fine for the most part, I don't think many people appreciate the discussion going balls deep into ideologies as it can bring the atmosphere down but there are many other places for that kind of talk.

Anyway it's time to have some more Hilde.

Hilde by xZWJR5IootSIOSO.jpg
 
Ardenwolf said:
But here, this is the exchange that goes on in my head when I think of Hilde and this discussion.

"Oh, hello madam, so you're going to join the troops in battle? Well that's fine, we're a very progressive militia as you well know, so we allow women warriors now. What's that? You requisitioned some armor befitting your status? Excellent, we do like demonstrating the majesty of who's in charge. Wait, you want to wear what? I'm sorry that armor just isn't acceptable. Why? Well you see, while we allow women, we expect them to dress and conduct themselves as a proper soldier. In order to be a strong force on the battle field it's important we come off as strong and masculine, so we require armor that gives off that impression. It's not that we don't allow women, we just want them to give masculine vibes. It's important to that strong warrior aesthetic. So while I appreciate your desire for intricate armor reminiscent of the men carrying similar status, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to well, cut your hair shorter and acquire new armor properly demonstrating your masculine virility as a soldier. Maybe get a large cod piece to really sell it. Women are allowed to be soldiers maddam, but they are expected to pass. See if you can't pull off a Mulan, we don't want you."

I'm just a bit sensitive to things I think are an attack on women's sexuality and identity disguised as an attempt to be progressive.

Yes women can dress and act however they want, but there's a concerted effort to attack femininity, which is something many women still fall into.
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I'm sympathetic to the plight of society calling feminine-coded things frivolous. But, I must say that your trying to place that concocted scenario onto a fictional character is a tad much for me. Especially when Hilde was not created in a vacuum. And she's the princess of the kingdom, so that scenario wouldn't even go like that in the first place. lol

SC has no shortage of "feminine" characters. In pretty much any stereotypical sense: aggressively sexy, cute, pure, ostentatious, etc., etc., pretty much all covered. What made Hilde stand out in her SC4 debut was that she appeared to shirk all that stuff to an extent. Now, I doubt anyone could say that she came off as "manly" or anything. But, she looked like she was there to be an all-business warrior character. And that gave the player some variance in choices. Is there really something to be gained in "taking that away"? (I put that in quotes because in SC4, her alternate was a dress and you'll probably still have her classic outfit in SC6. But, let's go with first impressions and how the character is mainly going to be represented.)

In a game where we're pretty much drowning in cleavage--even for the 14 (we'll just call Amy 14 but she might be younger) and 15-year-olds--they took the one female character you wouldn't quite expect that from and put fake cleavage onto her armor? And don't forget to pause the camera on it? Really? For what? Because we need it beat over our heads that she's a ~ F E M A L E ~ character and we best not forget it or something? Come on, now.

And then, when it comes to the scenario you posed, it's not like we have the male armored characters in-game being super phallic with their armor or anything. Except...Voldo. Are we really trying to put Hilde in the same camp as Voldo? lol

I don't think SC's women have to worry about their femininity being under attack. If anything, we'd have to worry about whether the pendulum is going to swing back at all.
 
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My one issue with the armor is how she’s probably supposed to be in her early teens during the timeline. She does sound younger as does Mi-Na if you notice.

I don’t like the Statue of Liberty crown either. Her design is a bit over the top in comparison to how it has been before.
 
SpellcraftQuill said:
My one issue with the armor is how she’s probably supposed to be in her early teens during the timeline. She does sound younger as does Mi-Na if you notice.
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We don't know during what years her Soul Chronicle will take place. Remember that the game does go up to 1590, where SC2 starts and Hilde would be 18. I'm thinking we'd see her at 15 or 16 at the earliest. Mi-na has only ever been 16 at her youngest (1583).

Tira (and Xianghua to an extent) is where the dumb stuff happens as their stories start well before they'd look as they do. I think Tira's starts when she's, like, 11. But, then the gameplay starts and...lol

Cricket said:
Pre-order Hilde armor has been leaked...
View attachment 67775
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💀💀💀
 
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artard4321 said:
This is designed by a woman by the way...
latest

Look up Mari Shimazaki.
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Designed by a woman or not it won't change that it looks like a piece of garbage.

Weirdly, i'm a big fan of what Shimazaki did most of the time, like Bayonetta, her works on Okami, T7's Kazumi, and even Josie at some point, but her works in Lost Swords were pure atrocities. (thankfully this trash happened in a spin off game and not a main game, and that's why i didn't care much about it)
 
Dissidia said:
@FluffyQuack I saw you posted on reddit that they should port over stages from SC4 and SC5 due to the heavy asset reuse in SC6.

But would the stages even translate well? It seems they need to make stages really big in SC6 due to RE finishers being able to knock you halfway across the stage
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I didn't really think much about the stage sizes. Maybe they could alter the size of the arena, but that might be a lot of work. I guess that means they might as well do the one sensible thing: remove RE entirely, yaaaay!
 
I'm honestly torn about which of Hilde's costumes I want as a freebie tbh. I miss the Princess set terribly but I also really like the boots and tunic from her SC5 2P. Then there's, of course, her armor. I think I'd prefer her SC4 armor since I feel like that can be split up more easily than her SC5 armor. Plus we'd get that stylish red shirt of hers.

Also I really do appreciate that the the DLC characters have been getting armor break hairstyles. Makes me wish other characters with up-dos like Taki and Talim got their own armor break styles. Talim's would've been cute I think.
 
"Since it took more than 6 years to release “VI” after “SOULCALIBUR V”, the goal of Project Seoul is to enjoy this title with users for as long as possible. We also wanted to add more characters and character creation parts"

a quote from okubo when season 2 was announced.
 
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