LAU
[09] Warrior
Will try to update this.....
I spent quite a long time playing around with his movelist yesterday to collect my thoughts.
Seeing how everybody complains how Raphael is so vertical... sometimes makes me a bit annoyed.... it's true to a CERTAIN extent but not the way how everybody whines about it.... most of the time i find myself stepped when i'm in Prep/SE.... but then i ask myself... if i didn't go into the stance in the first place I would've been able to punish my opponent back... but here's my general analysis....
keep in mind... because of Raph has one of the best (if not the best) range vs speed ratio.... which makes him a great spacing character.....
a few notes on spacing and anti-step
Spacing is really knowing your opponent character's move's range vs your own move's range and optimizing your range vs their character's range.... although this seems like common knowledge to most.. however most beginner and intermediate players tend to play a "one-style" and use the same strategy/spacing strategy against all characters... then they later complain about their character sucking against another character because they can't do the same thing they were doing before.... unfortunately.... the truth is... anybody good will realize that you pretty much need to play differently against different characters to take full advantage of spacing.... some characters have it easier than others.... like Nightmare... his general move he needs to use for spacing works against most characters... making him one of the best spacing characters... fortunately I see Raphael share some of the same qualities in this aspect as well....
Sometimes the best thing to do for anti-step/spacing... is to wait for the opponent to come to you... and waiting doesn't really mean just standing there... it also includes... moving around sideways or backwards... or sometimes even forward (but still outside their range).... keep in mind... MOST of the moves in SC do NOT have TS properties..... so... if they whiff you can use your superior range to whiff punish them.... if they are also waiting for you... since raph generally have superior range/speed compared to most characters... you should have an advantage provoking them one way or another......
there's really too much scenarios what you can do or what you don't have to do.. but it's important to be patient at all times meaning sometimes you shouldn't be pressing buttons.
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A good step killer have several important elements...
A. Speed
B. Range
C. Reliability
D. Safeness on block
E. Extra notes: like does it have TC or TS property, can it go into stance, can it be ducked/stepped on second hit.
I'll generally list moves I consider a good step killer on top and the more bottom it gets the more 'insignificant' i find them.... The order IS NOT PERFECT.... but like any list sometimes it's vague to put one move over another because different
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66A
+ This is arguably the best or one of the best horizontal move Raphael's got... It's got speed, it's got coverage, it's got range, safeness on block and it's reliable... if opponent step to their left sometimes it'll expose Raphael's back but they will get hit before that happens making it completely safe.
- The only weakness I will complain about this move is that it high... however if you do get hit out of it because it's high and they TC you.... are they hitting you out of it because they are stepping AND TC at the same time? Because there aren't too many TS + TC moves out there that can do that... if it's only doing TC... then it means you guessed wrong... As far as anti-step goes... this move does it's job really well
44AB
+ I honestly don't know if this deserves the #2 spot but it's a move I was really surprised myself for not using before testing and potentially can be a top 10 overall move.... Despite what the animation and the motion suggests.... this moves range is only second to 66A, although it seems short range it's actually extremely long range, better range than moves like 22A or 33A... To give you an idea how good the range is... you need to use 66B blocked at the tip of the tip follow by 44AB for it to whiff against someone who's stepping... if it's not at the very tip it will still connect....
It's natural combo that gives 30 damage, pretty much the highest as far as anti-step goes, and can lead to Prep. And best of all it's horizontal.
- Biggest weakness of this move is the speed.. but for the range it covers... it's ok... it's also not as safe compared to other moves raph has... but when you mix it up with Prep and no-Prep and the fact that nobody really looks into how to anti this move, you probably will never be punished for it if you don't go into stance.
SE A
+ fast, good range, TC bordering STC because of SE, covers both sides, reliable, safe on block (and leads to good JG bait)... if it weren't for going into SE to access it.. this will be his best move.
- There really nothing to complain about this move other than you need to go into SE which is difficult...
SE K
I have a tough time deciding SE A or SE K is better... in the end SE A is better because it can get you out of punish situation where SE K can't.
+ fast for a low, good range, reliable, covers just as well as SE A, quite safe on block with a few exception that could generally be ignored, creates a reason for people to duck.
- same as SE A you need to be in SE... and the fact it's slower and you need to be in SE... it means you're gonna get out speed and get hit out more often.
Throw/Step forward a bit then Throw
+ Throw is the universal Step-Killer... so if your character got a good throw range that'll automatically make him have a natural good step killer close range... fortunately Raphael throw range is quite decent.. Keep in mind when they do break the throw, you're still at advantage most of the time...
- The weakness is the throw is very obvious.
2K
+ i15, -14 on block making it safe to majority of the cast, -2 on hit sets you up for WS B, decent range, very reliable until at the tip range then it's possible to step, at close range it's pretty much impossible to step. It's a low move meaning they can't TC you as well. Gives good frame advantage against downed opponent.
- damage sucks, at tip range can get a little unreliable and it's possible to get stepped at that range.... you might want to consider 1A at that range instead for step killing.
22A
+ good range, decently fast, safe on block, it's reliable and covers both sides well
- crappy damage, leads to nothing on hit or counter... basically it's just a poke and set you back to neutral again...
2A/FC A (although two different moves can be used similarly)
+ i13 TC (i12 but no TC for FC A) the ultimate close range step killer, gives +8 frames on hit, and -6 on guard making it a decent JG bait. Leads to Raphael's awesome crouch game.
- Range is so crappy on this move.
1A
+ quite fast low, longer range of 2K, basically should be used as a long range 2K, covers both sides
- at tip range, the horizontal coverage is a bit unreliable and can be stepped just like 2K at tip range, unfortunately at -16 it is significantly more unsafe but then again you're supposed to be using it outside of 2K range so... hopefully that'll make it a bit better.
11K
+decent speed for a low, reliable, covers both sides, gives you 0 frame advantage but from animation makes you look like you have major frame advantage, can set you up for some horizontal autoGIs if that's the type of stuff you like.
-biggest complaint is really the range, at that range you got other options, like throw or 2K, it puts you at super close range on hit which is another reason why i don't really like this move... on block it's highly punishable to anyone who knows their block punish game well.... although there are some characters that can't punish you heavily for it... so you might want to take advantage of that.
4A
+ decent range, decent speed, TS, reliable, tracks both sides
- fairly unsafe on block but might get away with it, so use it on certain matchups, crap frames on hit but at least leaves you at a decent range, and crap damage.
3A
+ fastest mid i14, which happens to be a horizontal as well, safe on block (can't exactly count natsu in... all the time), pretty good move on hit and CH.
- kinda a bit unreliable at times, because the range of this move in general is quite good, however the range when used as a step killer is kinda unreliable making it possible to whiff... because of that I place this move here.
33A
+ horizontal mid, reliable, covers both sides.
- the range is mediocre for the speed, crappy on block but might be able to get away with it unless you're against those few characters, low damage for the effort.
1K
+quite fast, covers both sides, decent range for the speed, TC, leads to nice and easy combo on counter.
- It's super unreliable, despite covering both sides, it doesn't cover both sides reliably at time it'll whiff against someone who steps... you really need to know your setups for this move well for throwing it out there.... finally to make things even tougher it isn't safe on block... at -16, and the block animation you're gonna get punished most of the time.
Prep A<B
+ his one and only delayable move, covers both sides, fast, NC, his ONLY horizontal from Prep, considering Prep K LOOKS horizontal have minimal side coverage...
- it's only good and reliable at close range, otherwise it suffers from the same fate as 3A but since this is high as well it makes it even more horrible because one of Prep weakness is TC moves....
A(A), A(B)
+ fast, can cover both sides, NC regardless of which version you use, yields decent frames on hit.
- unreliable at further range especially when sometimes after the first hit connects second might whiff, duckable on block after first hit connects making AA extremely dangerous to those who have the reaction to duck it.... making AB overall a safer choice, so at far range you should just use A if you really want to use this move...
22K
+ more or less similar to 1K but shorter range and safer but more importantly more reliable compared to 1K.
- suffers from slower speed, no TC, and less
Prep K - Thanks to Heaton.... for the sub-text/spoiler please read his post on page 2
-------------------
Haven't looked into enough and will add....
WS A
8A+B
8A
-LAU
I spent quite a long time playing around with his movelist yesterday to collect my thoughts.
Seeing how everybody complains how Raphael is so vertical... sometimes makes me a bit annoyed.... it's true to a CERTAIN extent but not the way how everybody whines about it.... most of the time i find myself stepped when i'm in Prep/SE.... but then i ask myself... if i didn't go into the stance in the first place I would've been able to punish my opponent back... but here's my general analysis....
keep in mind... because of Raph has one of the best (if not the best) range vs speed ratio.... which makes him a great spacing character.....
a few notes on spacing and anti-step
Spacing is really knowing your opponent character's move's range vs your own move's range and optimizing your range vs their character's range.... although this seems like common knowledge to most.. however most beginner and intermediate players tend to play a "one-style" and use the same strategy/spacing strategy against all characters... then they later complain about their character sucking against another character because they can't do the same thing they were doing before.... unfortunately.... the truth is... anybody good will realize that you pretty much need to play differently against different characters to take full advantage of spacing.... some characters have it easier than others.... like Nightmare... his general move he needs to use for spacing works against most characters... making him one of the best spacing characters... fortunately I see Raphael share some of the same qualities in this aspect as well....
Sometimes the best thing to do for anti-step/spacing... is to wait for the opponent to come to you... and waiting doesn't really mean just standing there... it also includes... moving around sideways or backwards... or sometimes even forward (but still outside their range).... keep in mind... MOST of the moves in SC do NOT have TS properties..... so... if they whiff you can use your superior range to whiff punish them.... if they are also waiting for you... since raph generally have superior range/speed compared to most characters... you should have an advantage provoking them one way or another......
there's really too much scenarios what you can do or what you don't have to do.. but it's important to be patient at all times meaning sometimes you shouldn't be pressing buttons.
----------------------
A good step killer have several important elements...
A. Speed
B. Range
C. Reliability
D. Safeness on block
E. Extra notes: like does it have TC or TS property, can it go into stance, can it be ducked/stepped on second hit.
I'll generally list moves I consider a good step killer on top and the more bottom it gets the more 'insignificant' i find them.... The order IS NOT PERFECT.... but like any list sometimes it's vague to put one move over another because different
----------------------
66A
+ This is arguably the best or one of the best horizontal move Raphael's got... It's got speed, it's got coverage, it's got range, safeness on block and it's reliable... if opponent step to their left sometimes it'll expose Raphael's back but they will get hit before that happens making it completely safe.
- The only weakness I will complain about this move is that it high... however if you do get hit out of it because it's high and they TC you.... are they hitting you out of it because they are stepping AND TC at the same time? Because there aren't too many TS + TC moves out there that can do that... if it's only doing TC... then it means you guessed wrong... As far as anti-step goes... this move does it's job really well
44AB
+ I honestly don't know if this deserves the #2 spot but it's a move I was really surprised myself for not using before testing and potentially can be a top 10 overall move.... Despite what the animation and the motion suggests.... this moves range is only second to 66A, although it seems short range it's actually extremely long range, better range than moves like 22A or 33A... To give you an idea how good the range is... you need to use 66B blocked at the tip of the tip follow by 44AB for it to whiff against someone who's stepping... if it's not at the very tip it will still connect....
It's natural combo that gives 30 damage, pretty much the highest as far as anti-step goes, and can lead to Prep. And best of all it's horizontal.
- Biggest weakness of this move is the speed.. but for the range it covers... it's ok... it's also not as safe compared to other moves raph has... but when you mix it up with Prep and no-Prep and the fact that nobody really looks into how to anti this move, you probably will never be punished for it if you don't go into stance.
SE A
+ fast, good range, TC bordering STC because of SE, covers both sides, reliable, safe on block (and leads to good JG bait)... if it weren't for going into SE to access it.. this will be his best move.
- There really nothing to complain about this move other than you need to go into SE which is difficult...
SE K
I have a tough time deciding SE A or SE K is better... in the end SE A is better because it can get you out of punish situation where SE K can't.
+ fast for a low, good range, reliable, covers just as well as SE A, quite safe on block with a few exception that could generally be ignored, creates a reason for people to duck.
- same as SE A you need to be in SE... and the fact it's slower and you need to be in SE... it means you're gonna get out speed and get hit out more often.
Throw/Step forward a bit then Throw
+ Throw is the universal Step-Killer... so if your character got a good throw range that'll automatically make him have a natural good step killer close range... fortunately Raphael throw range is quite decent.. Keep in mind when they do break the throw, you're still at advantage most of the time...
- The weakness is the throw is very obvious.
2K
+ i15, -14 on block making it safe to majority of the cast, -2 on hit sets you up for WS B, decent range, very reliable until at the tip range then it's possible to step, at close range it's pretty much impossible to step. It's a low move meaning they can't TC you as well. Gives good frame advantage against downed opponent.
- damage sucks, at tip range can get a little unreliable and it's possible to get stepped at that range.... you might want to consider 1A at that range instead for step killing.
22A
+ good range, decently fast, safe on block, it's reliable and covers both sides well
- crappy damage, leads to nothing on hit or counter... basically it's just a poke and set you back to neutral again...
2A/FC A (although two different moves can be used similarly)
+ i13 TC (i12 but no TC for FC A) the ultimate close range step killer, gives +8 frames on hit, and -6 on guard making it a decent JG bait. Leads to Raphael's awesome crouch game.
- Range is so crappy on this move.
1A
+ quite fast low, longer range of 2K, basically should be used as a long range 2K, covers both sides
- at tip range, the horizontal coverage is a bit unreliable and can be stepped just like 2K at tip range, unfortunately at -16 it is significantly more unsafe but then again you're supposed to be using it outside of 2K range so... hopefully that'll make it a bit better.
11K
+decent speed for a low, reliable, covers both sides, gives you 0 frame advantage but from animation makes you look like you have major frame advantage, can set you up for some horizontal autoGIs if that's the type of stuff you like.
-biggest complaint is really the range, at that range you got other options, like throw or 2K, it puts you at super close range on hit which is another reason why i don't really like this move... on block it's highly punishable to anyone who knows their block punish game well.... although there are some characters that can't punish you heavily for it... so you might want to take advantage of that.
4A
+ decent range, decent speed, TS, reliable, tracks both sides
- fairly unsafe on block but might get away with it, so use it on certain matchups, crap frames on hit but at least leaves you at a decent range, and crap damage.
3A
+ fastest mid i14, which happens to be a horizontal as well, safe on block (can't exactly count natsu in... all the time), pretty good move on hit and CH.
- kinda a bit unreliable at times, because the range of this move in general is quite good, however the range when used as a step killer is kinda unreliable making it possible to whiff... because of that I place this move here.
33A
+ horizontal mid, reliable, covers both sides.
- the range is mediocre for the speed, crappy on block but might be able to get away with it unless you're against those few characters, low damage for the effort.
1K
+quite fast, covers both sides, decent range for the speed, TC, leads to nice and easy combo on counter.
- It's super unreliable, despite covering both sides, it doesn't cover both sides reliably at time it'll whiff against someone who steps... you really need to know your setups for this move well for throwing it out there.... finally to make things even tougher it isn't safe on block... at -16, and the block animation you're gonna get punished most of the time.
Prep A<B
+ his one and only delayable move, covers both sides, fast, NC, his ONLY horizontal from Prep, considering Prep K LOOKS horizontal have minimal side coverage...
- it's only good and reliable at close range, otherwise it suffers from the same fate as 3A but since this is high as well it makes it even more horrible because one of Prep weakness is TC moves....
A(A), A(B)
+ fast, can cover both sides, NC regardless of which version you use, yields decent frames on hit.
- unreliable at further range especially when sometimes after the first hit connects second might whiff, duckable on block after first hit connects making AA extremely dangerous to those who have the reaction to duck it.... making AB overall a safer choice, so at far range you should just use A if you really want to use this move...
22K
+ more or less similar to 1K but shorter range and safer but more importantly more reliable compared to 1K.
- suffers from slower speed, no TC, and less
Prep K - Thanks to Heaton.... for the sub-text/spoiler please read his post on page 2
-------------------
Haven't looked into enough and will add....
WS A
8A+B
8A
-LAU
