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ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
No! It's not okay!! - Talim Counter-Attacks list
Yo. After hours of messing around in training mode, I've decided to compile a list of various counter options Talim has with dealing with certain moves of other characters. This will likely take a while for me to accomplish, but you guys can help if you know of some stuff I haven't listed that works.
Keep in mind that this is not, I repeat, NOT intended as a block and punishment list, but rather, a list of suggested strategies to handling those annoying attacks from the other characters.
vs. Algol
(still needs testing)
*All transitions into AS attacks EXCEPT 6BB into AS B can be beat with 6K on block - this causes CH stun which lets you use shake stun mixups. The timing is extremely strict for AS B but it IS possible if you know when to suspect an AS transition.
*All transitions into AS attacks EXCEPT AS A, can be avoided with WC on block - AS B covers Amy's right a little, but even if you get hit, you have time to recover and attack before Amy can. WC to her left and you take no damage. More damage potential than 6K
*Note: Using WC will eventually condition the Amy player to use AS A whenever they're in AS. When you notice this you can just BB or 6K them
1KA - block the first hit and...
> duck A and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (but gives +4 and great mixup potential)
> duck A and WS A ~ 20 dmg
*ROs to Talim's left
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
>3BA ~ 30 dmg (into BT or WC mixups)
*Don't hold the A at all and it'll combo. What you do from BT or WC is your choice.
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*great damage, RO potential, and surprisingly easy to time. Just 236B right as the 1K impacts. If you can remember to do it, always use this counter
3BA - block the first hit and...
> 9K ~ 21 dmg
*7_8_9K is the ONLY one of Talim's many jumping moves that works here. 9K does the most damage for some reason but 7K and 8K work just as well for 12 and 16 dmg respectively.
> jump and BB ~ 25 dmg
> jump and 11KA ~ 32 dmg
*This works 90% of the time as while it's slow enough to block, most people won't think to block low after having their own low jumped... unless they have low health maybe. Good mixups if it lands. Use the "8 way jump" method by inputting 11KA while in the air so it comes out as soon as you land
4BB - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*The second hit tracks to Amy's left. WC to the right (away from the sword side) and let her have it. WC A+K is a good option too, but it CAN be blocked. Try it maybe once and if they block don't do it a second time.
> step toward Amy's right and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K (22B~6 if on right side) ~ 58 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*not recommended. It doesn't always let you quickstep at certain ranges, so you risk getting hit
66B/6:6B~2~8 - block the hit then...
> throw ~ 48-60 dmg depending on throw
*Not the best option but it's decent. Amy has a tremendous sidestep after the move that goes around a lot of Talim's horizontals. This will grab her no matter which side she steps. It can be broken, but it isn't likely during this move.
*Note: for some strange reason 236B+G command throw doesn't grab her if she steps to Talim's right, yet the regular throws do....
> FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4 adv. and mixup potential)
*Amy's 66B forces crouch on block. This move will catch Amy regardless of the side she steps to guaranteed. She can use 66BA, but using FC 2A will cause you to duck under her second attack.
> 4A ~ 18 dmg
*Hits Amy regardless of the side she steps to and it's guaranteed. She can use 66BA, but if you wait a second before using 4A from crouch you'll hit her out of the air.
> WC AA ~ 18 (mixup potential)
*Since Amy's 66B puts you in crouch you can only do 8B+K version of WC. WC AA will hit her regardless of side and will punish her before she can recover. Still, it's not recommended unless you know your opponent because if Amy uses 66BA it'll hit you.
AAB - block first two hits and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*You can only WC this to the left since it tracks to your right. (1P 8B+K, 2P 2B+K)
> step left (Apprentice's right) and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*Not recommended. This doesn't always work as sometimes you can still be hit trying to step. WC is more reliable
6BBK - block first two hits and...
> duck the third and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
> duck the third and WS A+B, 44K/33A/6AA ~ 55, 56, or 58 dmg
*You get plenty of time to land this counter, so unless you're going for RO, use this.
*Note: You could duck the second hit, but it's not recommended to get into the habit of doing this. He can always mix it up with 6B3B instead which would launch you if you ducked. This also works if Apprentice does B+K, B... or 2B+K:BB... to transition into the 6B series.
33BB - block the first hit and...
> 6B ~ 26 dmg due to CH (+10 adv. and BT)
*6B will punish Apprentice's 33B on block even if he decides not to use the second hit. So throwing this out after blocking 33B is guaranteed regardless.
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 22 dmg (shake stun mixups)
*6K will punish Apprentice's 33B on block even if he decides not to use the second hit. So throwing this out after blocking 33B is guaranteed regardless.
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*1A+B will punish Apprentice's 33B on block even if he decides not to use the second hit. So throwing this out after blocking 33B is guaranteed regardless.
> 3B[A], WC B:B, AAB, BT 2K ~ 63 dmg
*3B will cause CH stun interrupting the second attack. This should be done immediately after blocking the first hit and there's only 18 frames between Apprentice's first and second hit. 3B can't punish Apprentice's 33B on block due to range.
33_66_99AB - block the first hit and...
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 50, or 51 dmg
> WL A, FC 3BB, AS A+K/A+B, 2A+B ~ around 55 dmg
*All of the WL options are free, because of the recovery frames. I didn't put WL B down because doing WL K, 66B, gives the same results with more damage. You could even use 6A+B after WL K if you want a RO.
FC 8K:A - block the first attack and...
> duck the saber throw and WS A ~ 21 dmg (ROs left)
> duck the saber throw and WS A+B, 44K/33A/6AA ~ 55, 56, or 58 dmg
> duck the saber throw and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 63, 67, or 71 dmg
*You actually get a good amount of time to do these if you already know which one you're going to do. WS A+B is really easy for good damage, 236B combos do more damage but can be a little hard to pull off if you tend to hesitate.
*Note: Apprentice's FC 8K:A is a move best used in combos, so you may not see this that often, but this is good to know anyway just in case.
*Both 1[A]A and 1[A]B can be beat with AS B+K~6, AS A+B on reaction if you're standing - If not and you're forced to block 1[A] after getting knocked down, there's really nothing you can do besides block (or GI if he uses B)
BB/B{B} - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
11_77BK - The first hit whiffs and....
> 2A ~ 9 dmg (but +10 of CH and mixups.... ahh the greatness of 2A)
*the advantage of this move is the fact that CH or not, you still get decent adv. and mixup opportunities. If Astaroth expect one of the later counters and tries to trick you with only using 11B, the move is punishable anyway. (even by 236B) 2A will hit no matter what he does (or doesn't do for that matter)
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 21 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
*can be done on reaction quite easily. As soon as the axe hits the ground next to you, throw this out. Timing is very forgiving here.
> 1A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 26, 27, 29, or 34 dmg
> 3BA ~ 32 dmg (into WC mixups)
> 4BB (CH stun), 2A+B/44B/22B/66A+B ~ 49, 51 dmg or 60 dmg
*Just as easy to time as 6K with better guaranteed results
*Note: You can use 236B to interrupt the followup, but it's NOT recommended. Though it CAN be done, you have to know the move is coming. This is not a move most Astaroth's use often so the chances of that are minimal.
214AAAAAA - If after blocking a few hits, Astaroth moves away from you during the move...
> 66B. 2A+B/44B ~ 44, or 47 dmg (22B gives 51 dmg if near the edge and both hits connect)
*This will only work if you time 66B right after the final spin whiffs. This'll also work if he's moving to the foreground if, after blocking, you run and follow him hitting 66B when he stops. Doesn't seem to work for background movement though.
> AS B+K~6, AS A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 61, 62, 63 or 69 dmg
*Can be slightly tricky to pull off sometimes, but even if you get hit, it's minimal risk for attempting it.
> AS K~6, AS B+K ~ 41-45 dmg
*Do this one once you see that he starts backing off. I think it's a little easier to time than the AS B+K one, but I'll let you be the judge.
9B+K - If you see this coming...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*can be done on reaction easily. Probably the best and only secure option she has here.
> 3BA ~ 32 dmg on CH (into WC mixups)
*Not recommended. I used to like this but the more I practice it the more I realize how strict the timing is. Add to that any nervousness and the likelyhood of landing this is almost nil.
Note: If you manage to hit Astaroth near just as he comes down from the peak of his jump with 3B, you can fully charge [A] to give the slam effect to knock him out of the air. You can even follow that with Ice Wind Combo for 66 damage! This won't likely happen in a real match but damn is it cool to watch!
66K/66[K] (Bullrush) - When you see Astaroth get in position for it...
> WC K ~ 18 dmg
*The K is free and great for RO if Asta tries to bullrush you out. WC A+K is good for wakeup, but like in most cases, it CAN be blocked.
*Note: If you block bullrush, there's a chance the Astaroth will go for another one or use the 6K knee. Either way WC K is the answer. The knee you can WC on reaction, but it's trickier. If you see another bullrush coming, consider it free damage (or RO) for Talim. Also keep in mind that if you block bullrush and Astaroth EXPECTS you to WC he could try a throw or something to catch it. This can be resolved by...
> 2A after blocking bullrush ~ 10 dmg (and gives +10 off CH and great mixup potential)
> 2K/2B after blocking bullrush ~ 15 or 17 dmg
*These two options will beat anything (even low throws) Astaroth tries after bullrush is blocked.
2B+K into Throw attempt - Block the stomp and...
> 2A ~ 8 dmg (gives +4 and mixup potential)
*staple throw evasion tactic. No high level Astaroth will forsake the throw attempt after 2B+K is blocked due to it's safety hazards. The only risk here is eating a low throw. If that is the case, doing 2A should break the A throw anyway. If he uses B (the most damaging of the two) try mashing B after doing 2A. (i.e. 2ABBB) If you're quick enough you should break the B throw also on the last frames. Not a guaranteed strategy, but it's as close as you're gonna get.
> K ~ 12-14 dmg (due to CH)
*This is her best option after blocking Astaroth's 2B+K because it requires no guessing at all. If he uses the crouch throw, Talim's K will beat it for CH. If he does nothing K will punish. And K will also trade with Asta's standing throw causing him to take damage and preventing the throw.
*These are for Standing throw followups only. Low grabs will still connect
> duck throw and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to her left)
> 3BA ~ 30 dmg (into WC mixups)
>1A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 26, 27, 29, or 34 dmg
> duck throw and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 61, 63, or 67 dmg
*Be aware that you don't start the 236B too fast or you'll stand back up into the grab. It's a great counter, just be careful. Also, if you anticipate a standing throw, you could do 236{B} instead and hold it until the right time.
*These are for Low throw followups only. Standing grabs will still connect
> 1A ~ 18 dmg (into WC mixups)
BK - block the first hit and...
> duck under K and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4 on hit and mixups potential)
> duck under K and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to Talim's left)
> 1A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 26, 27, 29, or 34 dmg
> 4A+B ~ 30 dmg (puts Talim in BT with adv.)
*Note: you CAN do 236B after blocking the first hit but the timing is extremely hard, so you're better off without it as tempting as it may be.
66B+K, A, B - block the first two hits and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*WC to Cassandra's left only as the last hit of the string tracks to her right
*Note: The first hit of the string forces crouch on block. Considering that the A is a high, you can...
> FC 2A ~ 10 dmg (+10 on CH and mixups)
> WS A ~ 25 dmg due to CH (ROs to Talim's left)
> FC 3BB, AS A+B/B+K ~ 37 or 47 (and wakeup game)
*For some reason AS B whiffs on her after this so B+K is the most damaging option this time. Also, FC 3BB will always give the CH launch if you do 3BB immediately after blocking 66B+K. The options for staying crouched after 66B+K work for both 66B+K, A, B and 66B+K, A, K
4AB - block the first hit and...
> K ~ 14 dmg due to CH
*This is the ONLY move Talim has that will interrupt the B followup as you need at least a 14 frame move to do so. Talim's AA, 2A, and 1B have the speed, but will all be GI'd by the shield.
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
> step to Cassandra's right (sword side) and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*Somehow you can only step to her right side after blocking the first hit. However, if you manage to duck the first hit, you can quickstep in either direction to use this counter. WC can be done to either side regardless of blocking or ducking.
22_88AA - block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4 adv. and mixups)
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to the left)
*Note: If you ducked the first hit you can do 236{B} and hold it till the second hit passes overhead. If you can remember not to stand back up, this is the counter you should be using. Even if Cassandra only uses the first hit, you can't be punished for using the held 236B on block anyway. I don't see many Cassandra's use this move, but when you see it react accordingly.
4BB:A - block the first two hits and....
> duck last hit and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4 adv. and mixups)
> duck last hit and WS A ~ 21 dmg (ROs to the left)
> 22K ~ 19 dmg (possible mixup potential)
*Normally you wouldn't go for this unless you have a firm lead. However, once again, know your opponent. if they tend to freeze after the move hits, go for the chain throw. If they duck, BB or 1B. Either way this method should be saved for near the end of a match to drain the last bit of their life bar.
> 1A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 26, 27, 29, or 34 dmg
> 3BA ~ 30 dmg (into WC mixups)
> 33A ~ 36 dmg (ROs to her left)
*33A will randomly cause a stun instead of a knockdown. If this happens follow through with the stun combo of your choice. It's almost guaranteed since your opponent probably won't expect to be stunned and forget that it's shakeable. Just try to keep this in mind so you're not caught off guard and miss your chance.
> 66A+B ~ 33 dmg (ROs forward)
*You can cancel 66A+B after the TC and maybe sneak in a throw after your opponent freezes up. It's better to go for the guaranteed damage, but if you know your opponent to freeze up on defense, go for it once in a while.
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*Yes, for some reason WC works on either side of the horizontal.
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*You actually get enough time to fully charge 236{B} if you start the move right after blocking the second hit. You don't need to do this, and it's not recommended unless you're going for gauge damage as well. But if you can manage it just add around 20 dmg to the total.
*Note: There's a LOT of counters for this move, and in most cases, good Cassandra's will refuse to use this when their opponent is standing. Especially since 4BB by itself is only punishable by Talim's K or AA. So don't go into a match thinking you'll see it. Rather, just react in the off chance that you do.
33KK - block first hit and...
> FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4, mixups)
> duck second K and WS A+B, AAB/4A+B/33A ~ 50, 52, or 54 dmg
*If you land WS A+B near a wall, replace all of the followups with one of her wall combos. For less damage you could also use 44B or 11B instead for oki related stuff. Even 1A works for those who love to tech up right away.
> duck second K and WS A ~ 21 dmg (ROs to the left)
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*Timing is a little strict, but it's doable.
*Note: Keep in mind that Cassandra can mix this move up with 33K, A+K to throw you off. None of these counters work against it. WS A and FC 3BB will interrupt it for a CH if you use it straight after blocking the first K though.
vs. Cervantes
(still needs testing)
vs. Darth Vader
(still needs testing)
3BB - block the first hit and...
> CH 1A+B, AAB, 2K ~ 50 dmg
*1A+B actually will work on both 3BB and 3BA. And AAB followup works on Hilde. Gotta love 1A+B.
> CH 3B[A], WC B:B, AAB, 2K ~ 63 dmg
*It's hard to say when to time this, because sometimes both hits will trade and you lose your combo opportunity. Even with the trade, Talim will take less damage than Hilde. If you land CH 3B[A], you could also do Ice wind combo for 50 dmg
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
> step and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
> step and 33_99A ~ 38 dmg (ROs left)
> step and 33_99B:6B, 2A+B ~ 49 dmg (ROs forward)
*even if you don't get the JF version, 39 dmg is still nothing to take lightly for a counter attack
> step and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*44B isn't recommended here just because sometimes the camera will screw with you and make your input 66B instead. So to avoid losing free damage go with 2A+B or 22B. Against Hilde you'll need all the damage you can get.
3BA - block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
> duck second hit and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*Keep in mind that Hilde's 3BB comes out a good bit slower than this move so you'll probably have a second to confirm which one she's doing. If you choose to duck, get ready to do so cause the A version comes out fast. If she pauses longer, you'll still get time to WC the B version.
*Note: Some of the better Hilde players don't even bother with either of these two moves, but they may throw it out there once in a while. Always good to be prepared.
1B - If you see Hilde hop backwards...
> AS B+K~6, AS A+B, 2A+B ~ about 62 dmg
*In a real match this can be slightly tricky to time, but if you watch Hilde's backstep movement you can nail her. Or you could replace it with AS A, WC AA if you're worried you were a little off. Chances are that'll land more often because the first instinct is normally to block standing after recovery.
*Note: 1B is the only backstepping move Hilde has. Because of that, Some Hilde players love to throw this in their arsenal. If you can look for the back hop, you can use Wind Sault every time.
*After blocking C2 B or C3 B, All A-charge followups can be beat with 2A, 6B, 6K, or 3B[A] for CH - 2A is easiest to land. 6K is better than 2A, but if Hilde blocks, it's punishable. 6B is more guaranteed damage than 6K and will put you in BT at +10 frames. 3B[A] is the best option for damage and especially if you can get the re-stun combo with the WC B:B JF.
*Note: Keep in mind Hilde CAN use other moves (i.e. 2A, 2K, 6A+K...etc) that are not interruptible on block. (3B[A] will still TC under her 6A+K or any other highs) This sequence of C2 B/C3 B ~ C2/C3 A is very common amongst Hilde players. This is especially true if your back is to the edge. If you can react to the second flash, it's free damage. Also, if Hilde does use 2A or 2K alot, you can use AS A+K instead.
*After blocking C2 A or C3 A, you can beat all B-charge followups with 6B or 6K for CH - Same as above. This setup isn't nearly as common, but it does show up every once in awhile. Stepping is a better option, but if 6B/6K/2A is drilled into your mind from the previous sequence, it doesn't hurt to use it here as well.
*After blocking C2 A or C3 A, you can step all B-charge followups to Hilde's right (sword side) and use 88B combos - (22B on 2P side) You kind of have to anticipate this follow up to step them properly. Particularly C3 B since it has slight tracking. But if you know your opponent to use this setup, simply react to the second flash again.
*Note: Since you can step these followups you can also WC them. stepping with 22_88B combos gets more damage, but you can utilize WC B:B combos or even WC throws. (If C1 B is used you might get a free back throw). Once again, Hilde doesn't have to use B-charge followups.
*All of Kilik's options from Back Parry stance can be avoided/countered with 22_88K - This won't yield much damage if it hits, but it avoids anything out of that stance even if it doesn't hit. If Kilik GIs you with BP, though, it doesn't work.
6AAA - block first two hits and...
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
66A - When you see the move coming...
> A+B, 236A, 236B (Ice Wind Combo) ~ 47 dmg
*This must be timed so that you TC as the pole swings across. If you can expect it, it's not as hard as it sounds. There's really no setup for 66A so it'll mainly be used at range to space you. Luckily, IWC has a slight suction effect that will draw opponents in from a decent range away.
4B+K - When you see Kilik hop backwards...
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (shake stun mixups)
> 4BB (CH stun), 2A+B/44B/22B/66A+B ~ 51, 54, 53, or 56 dmg
> WL A, FC 3BB, AS A+K/AS A+B, 2A+B ~ 54 or 55 dmg
* This will likely land more than WL K because, if timed properly, Kilik will only have a fraction of a second to decide to block standing or crouching. You can easily switch it up if it doesn't. WL B is sometimes guaranteed depending on timing. Obviously, If Kilik does this while you're in mid-animation, this counter won't work.
> step and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*For this to work, you must do 22_88B as soon as you step the move. Otherwise, Kilik will jump back out of range causing Talim to whiff. You could opt to use 33B:6B instead for easier timing and decent damage
> step and 33_99A ~ 37 dmg (ROs left)
4B/4{B} - If you see Kilik about to do this move...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF) *In this rare case you can add WC A+K combos into the mix as well since 4B's recovery makes them guaranteed. If WC A+K hits at tip 22B followup whiffs.
> step and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/AS B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*If you avoid this at tip the 22B launcher will whiff so use 66B instead to punish from further out
> step and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 63, 67,or 71 dmg
*Like 22B if attempted at tip range of 4B it'll whiff so use 66B combos instead.
*Note: 4{B} is easier to see coming than 4B due to slower startup and lightning, but the key thing to remember is that there's not a whole lot of mids that Kilik can do to reach as far from standing.
B+K, 6B, 41236B (Asura) - block first hit and...
> WC A+K, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 43, 46 or 50 dmg
*WC must be done to the left to avoid the second hit of Asura. (8B+K for 1P, 2B+K for 2P) After that the most guaranteed damage is WC A+K combos. If Kilik stops at the second hit he can block WC A+K, but the other WC options become guaranteed instead. Most good Kilik players won't do the 3rd hit of Asura if the first two are blocked/avoided.
*Note: Aside from GI-ing the second or third hit, there's nothing else you can do to counter Asura on block other than WC. The GB version of Asura isn't too kind on the Soul Gauge, but the WC tactics will still work even on the GB version.
Coil 6AK - block the first hit and...
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
Coil A+B cancel into low/mid attack - block the first hit and...
> crouch block (cancel confirm) FC A ~ 10 dmg (but gives +10 off CH and great mixup potential)
*works against anything Ivy throws out after cancel.
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K/AAB ~ 40, 34, 32, or 42 dmg
*easy to pull off on most followups. Timing can be really tight if Ivy uses CL WS AA.
> Crouch block (cancel confirm) WS A ~ 24 dmg
*Easier to do than 1A+B, but less damage from lack of followups.
> Crouch block (cancel confirm) 6K (CH stun) ~ 21 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
*Note: Be absolutely sure that Ivy has canceled the move after the first hit before attempting these. If you do so without confirming you could be eating some major stun combo damage
Coil 214{B} into SE attacks - block 214 and...
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
> 4BB (CH stun), 2A+B/44B/22B/66A+B ~ 51, 54, 53, or 56 dmg
*If blocked at tip range, 4BB will whiff. Otherwise, this will beat anything out of SE. Only causes CH if Ivy attacks immediately
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 70, 73, or 77 dmg due to CH
*Only whiffs if Ivy sidesteps before attacking in SE. Awesome free damage and RO potential here
Whip 3{B} into SE attacks - block the first hit and...
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
*SE K will beat out any of Talim's attacks including this. Since most Ivy's use this followup, 6K isn't recommended
> WC AA ~ 19 dmg (into WC mixups)
*best option due to damage potential. WC to Ivy's left side only, since her SE moves track to her right
Sword 1KBK - block the first hit and...
> 2A ~ 9 dmg (but gives +10 off CH and great mixup potential)
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 21 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
> 66B. 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 44, 47, or 38 dmg (22B gives 51 dmg if near the edge and both hits connect)
> AS A+B ~ 30 dmg
> AS A+K, 2A+B/44B/66A+B ~ 41, 45, or 48 dmg
*66A+B appears to be a block trap. If they block, go for the multi-part throw
> AS~4 A, WC AA ~ 38 dmg (into WC mixups)
*Nice damage potential from mixups. Key is holding 4 to shorten the AS A so you don't go past her
> AS~4 B+K (stun) AS~4 A+B, 2A+B ~ 58 dmg
*This is sometimes tricky to pull off, but well worth it if you can react quick enough. Again, hold 4 to shorten the AS jumps so you don't overshoot her.
*Note: Although it may look the same, the SW 1KBK tricks do NOT work for SW 8B+K K.
vs. Lizardman
(still needs testing)
*All followups after transition attacks EXCEPT A+BG from neutral into Right Cross can be beat by 1A+B on block - If Maxi does Wavering Light, it GIs 1A+B. To avoid this, just delay the 1A+B input for Wavering Light. A+BG forces crouch so 1A+B is impossible. If this happens, use WS A to beat out all of Maxi's options. I'm only listing this counter because it's the most reliable.
FC 3A/3AA/3AAA~Right Outer - After getting hit...
> 1A+B, 2K/1K/2A+B/AAB ~ 27, 29, 34, or 42 dmg
*This move will beat all of Maxi's options except RO B and sidestep. RO A without the K will be just outside of 1A+B's range though. AAB followup works here as well.
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18, 29, or 39 dmg (61 w/ AAB followup on JF)
*This beats out all of Maxi's options except RO A series. Unfortunately, RO AK is usually the most common followup since it's the fastest and he's also at +4 from the lows. This will beat any attacks after sidestep though.
*Note: 1A+B will work on RO B if you block FC 3A series. Usually this isn't blocked, though, so fortunately 1A+B is still a devastating weapon against RO stance.
3B~Right Outer - after blocking the first hit...
> 1A+B, 2K/1K/2A+B/AAB ~ 27, 29, 34, or 42 dmg
*1A+B beats every followup here except RO B and WL. If Maxi starts solely using RO B to beat 1A+B you can WC it.
6A~Right Outer - after blocking the first hit...
> 1A+B, 2K/1K/2A+B/AAB ~ 27, 29, 34, or 42 dmg
*1A+B beats everything but WL. This also works the same for 2KB~Right Outer
44B~Right Outer - After blocking the first hit...
> WS A ~ 20-25 dmg (Rings Out left)
*This move puts you in FC so WS A will once again take the place of 1A+B. WS A beats anything Maxi does as a followup including the WL aGI.
44AB~Right Outer - after blocking the first hit...
> FC 3BB, AS K ~ 39 dmg
*Like 44B, this puts you in FC on block as well. WS A works on most of the followups, but RO A will hit you since it doesn't TC. CH FC 3BB however, beats everything except WL. It hits off axis so everything from windsault whiffs except AS A and AS K. K does more damage.
*Note: 1A+B is pretty dominant against most of RO attacks as well as RC. Using 1A+B after blocking moves that don't force crouch will ultimately limit the amount of options Maxi has to use. He CAN get around 1A+B, but you get the benefit of conditioning him to use those other options and therefore have less guessing to do.
2KB - step right and...
> 22_88B~6, AS B+K/AS B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*2KB can be 8WR to the right if you're doing it as he uses the move. Otherwise both hits can be single stepped to the right. The B part re-tracks, so if you step it you'll have to step it twice.
*Note: Another thing you can do is after stepping right once to avoid 2K, you can step the B to the left before using the above counter. As complicated as this may sound, it's still more doable than blocking it. If you do block it though, use 44AA, 2A+B and disregard this counter.
> 9K (to jump the low and interrupt) ~ 25 dmg due to CH
*Probably the most practical counter for every character really, but has to be anticipated
> 22_88K (to jump the low and sidestep the B)
*Just as useful as 9K minus the damage. However, you can do this to either side and afterwards have a large window to launch him. You can use...
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B ~ 67 dmg
> 22_88B~6, AS B+K/AS B:K ~ 64 (and wakeup) or 70 dmg
*Note: I only listed 2A+B after the 236B, 66B combo since it's the most reliable. For some reason 44B whiffs, and 22B doesn't get full damage. The 22B combo with AS B+K gives better wakeup anyway for only 3 dmg less.
66BB - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 19, 30, or 41 dmg (62 w/ AAB followup on JF)
> WC A+K, 11B/2A+B/44B/22B ~ 39, 42, 45, or 50 dmg
*Yes, every WC option is guaranteed here. (except throws of course). 22B sometimes doesn't get full damage. (might be something with Mitsurugi's hitbox), but all other followups for WC A+K work. It's also a little harder to hit the AAB after the JF combo.
> step left (Mitsurugi's right) and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/AS B:K ~ 59 (and wakeup) or 67 dmg
*This is likely Talim's best option since if Mitsurugi doesn't use the second B, (most good ones won't) you leave yourself less open than in WC.
*All transitions into NSS attacks EXCEPT NSS K can be beat with FC 3BB after blocking the first hit - a NSS A+B will also still hit. Note that NSS K prevents the launch from FC 3BB, but you still get the first hit free.
*All transitions into Grim Stride attacks can be beat by 1A+B. Just be aware of the timing for GS A's aGI. 2A works here as well and is easier to do, but does less damage. Use whichever one works best for you.
4KK - block first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30 or 41 dmg
*Second punch tracks to his left, so WC to the side he's punching with
44BB - block first hit and...
> step toward NM's back and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K (22B~6 if on right side) ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*not recommended. It doesn't always let you quickstep at certain ranges, so you risk getting launched
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30 or 41 dmg
*NM's first hit forces crouch, and the second tracks to his left. So only use the 8B+K version on the 1P side. On 2P side, don't use this at all and stick to GI.
1{B}, NSS A+B - block first hit and...
> WS B ~ 21 dmg due to CH
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*Since NM 1 forces crouch, always do the 8B+K version of WC regardless of which side you're on. Also the AAB followup on WC B:B whiffs on NM)
> FC 3BB, AS A+B/B+K/B:K ~ 37, 47 (and wakeup game), or 55 dmg
*The timing for the CH version is very tight. If you do it a bit later it clashes with NSS A+B. It'll still launch but the damage will decrease. (With clash: AS A+B ~ 27 dmg, AS B+K 38 dmg, and AS B:K gives 31 since the JF whiffs after clash.)
3A2A6 - block first hit and...
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
> 1A+B (CH launch) 2A+B/AAB ~ 42, or 46 dmg (into BT mixups)
> 8B, BT K ~ 44 dmg
> AS A+K, 2A+B/44B/66A+B ~ 41, 45, or 48 dmg
*66A+B appears to be a block trap. If they block, go for the multi-part throw
> WL B, 2A+B/44B ~ 46, or 49 dmg
*Not recommended. Timing is strict. GS A will GI WL B if done too late
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
*Not recommended unless used for RO. Timing is strict. GS A will GI the WL K if done too late
> WL A, FC3BB, AS A+K, 2A+B ~ around 69 dmg due to CH
> WL A, FC3BB, AS A+B, 2A+B ~ around 72 dmg due to CH
*All followups out of Prep can be countered with step 33A after blocking the transition EXCEPT for 44A{B} - Using 33A on it's own won't work. You have to step in either direction before using 33A. Since Raphael's 44A{B} forces crouch on block, you can't step in time to use this. In that case just block, GI, or stay in crouch and react only if you see Prep A+B, VE, or SEA. This way if he does anything else you'll take minimal damage.
Note: Something you must be aware of is if Raphael does empty Prep and blocks, he can punish Talim's 33A with 3{B} and now you're faced with more Prep tricks.
6BBB - block the first two hits and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg (62 if you get the AAB followup from the JF)
*This can be done to either side and is the most reliable option. Raph can go into Prep though, and you'll see that more than the 6BBB string so be careful. WC B:B/WC K still work wonders if they try Prep, but it doesn't beat everything.
> step and 33A ~ 35 dmg
*This would be the best option, but being able to step the last B is tricky and unreliable. Sometimes you won't be able to step it and take damage.
22_88{B} ~ VE - block the first hit and...
> 1A+B (CH launch), 2A+B/AAB ~ 39 or 42 dmg (into BT mixups)
*This will stop any followup attack from VE, but Raphael can auto-evade it with another VE. If you use this against good Raphaels, use it very sparingly.
> 33A ~ 35 dmg (ROs left)
*Again, 33A will beat everything here. This time you don't need to worry about stepping first, and even better, there's no risk involved. 33A will punish Raphael if he tries to do nothing in VE and block. It can't be auto evaded either. Doesn't do as much damage as 1A+B but it's still the best counter option.
22_88AA - block first hit and...
> duck and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
*this option is great because it works on whatever string Raphael decides to do after the first hit. If he does 22_88AB, you can block the low and punish with WS A. If he does 22_88ABB, you'll block the low and WS A will interrupt his third hit.
*Note: Because of it's horrible lack of safety, this string will likely not be used often, (if at all) by higher level Raphael players. They might just stop after the first one and use it as a poke. Keep that in mind.
vs. Rock
(still needs testing)
*All strings in the Dancing Fang series (1B, A/B/K) can be beat out with 1A+B after blocking the first hit - Upon further testing it seems 1B,K will sometimes beat Talim's 1A+B. It may be range dependent or something. This will work 100% on the other options though. Mina can opt to just use 1B, but Talim can block punish that with her own 1B or AA.
(1A+B is the universal counter to Dancing Fang, but each string has it's own set of counters to play with.)
1B, A - block first hit and...
> 3BA ~ 33 dmg (scores CH into WC mixups)
*Since 3B will get a CH, it'll stun her long enough to hold the A for the dizzy stun. Finish that up with the WC B:B, AAB just like her staple combo from BT B for 62 dmg.
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
> WL A, FC3BB, AS A+K (or AS A+B), 2A+B ~ around 60 dmg
> WL B, 2A+B/44B ~ 46, or 49 dmg (RO potential)
*WL can be EASILY done on reaction and should be your best bet for a counter since everything aside from the Unblockable will hit for free. The only exception is WL K won't reach Mina at tip range before she can block it.
> Jump the A and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*Mina's recovery time from whiffing the low allows for all kinds of free damage without much effort.
*Note: In what's likely another Namco oversight, you can actually STEP the HORIZONTAL low to the left (Mina's right) and do the same 236B counter. This also enables WC options to that side, but you won't need it since 236B and WL are free.
1B, B - block the first hit and...
> duck the second B and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*This only works to Mina's left side so use 2B+K on 1P side and 8B+K on 2P.
1B, K - block the first hit and...
> 1B ~ 24 dmg
*Not highly recommended. It is good, but since 1B isn't used much you probably won't think to pull it out immediately.
> AAB ~ 30 dmg
*Easier to land than 1B, I think.
6BA - block the first hit and...
> 11_77B ~ 20 dmg (into Wind transitions)
*This isn't ridiculously hard to time but it might be difficult pulling this off on reaction during a real fight.
> AAB ~ 30 dmg
> step left and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K (22B~6 if on right side) ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*You could actually do the 236B counter instead after stepping for a bit more damage. Timing is a lot stricter though.
> AS A+B ~ 30 dmg (RO potential)
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*This only works to Mina's right side so use 8B+K on 1P side and 2B+K on 2P.
6BB - block first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*To Mina's left side only. Use 2B+K on 1P side and 8B+K on 2P. This works for Mina's BBB as well
6B+K - block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (but gives +4 and great mixup potential)
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg
*ROs to Talim's left
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
> duck second hit and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*great damage, RO potential, but kinda tough to time. If you have the reflexes and the concentration go for this one every time
A+B - nothing you can do if you block the first hit. BUT, if you duck under it, then...
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*There need not be any other tactics unless you need WS A to RO to your left. but come on, it's 236B! Just try to remember to stay crouched and not stand back up to block.
3KK - block the first kick and...
> duck second kick and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (but gives +4 and great mixup potential)
> duck second kick and WS A ~ 20 dmg
*ROs to Talim's left
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
66KKK - block the first two kicks and...
> duck last K and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (but gives +4 and great mixup potential)
> duck last K and WS A ~ 20 dmg
*ROs to Talim's left
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*Tougher than 6B+K to time. It's an awesome reward if you can react quick enough, though
1B:B - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA ~ 16 or 18 dmg
*WC to Setsuka's right (sword side) immediately after seeing the JF flash. This counter also works for her FC 3B:B as well.
*Note: WC B:B, AAB combo doesn't work on 1B:B because Setsuka has enough recovery to block it. It does work on FC 3B:B though
22BB - block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to the left)
> duck second hit and WS A+B, 44K/33A/6AA ~ 53, 54, or 56 dmg
*If you can duck the second hit after blocking the first you get a good amount of time to do this
> duck second hit and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 71 dmg (maybe)
*Timing is the same as WS A+B. Sometimes the 22B followup from 66B whiffs on her or only partially connects. 44B is the next most damaging followup and is more reliable.
*Note: If you're ducking before this move hits, the second hit will pass over you head and you can still do any of these counters. 236B is hard to time here so you can opt to use 4A+B from FC instead for a quick 30 dmg and BT mixups
66BA -block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to the left)
> duck second hit and FC 4A+B ~ 30 dmg (BT mixups)
*4A+B from crouch is a nice way to get some free damage off of moves you can't 236B under consistently.
> duck second hit and WS A+B, 44K/33A/6AA ~ 53, 54, or 56 dmg
*If you can duck the second hit after blocking the first you get a good amount of time to do this
*Note: You can do 236B after ducking the second but it's just really hard to time. Therefore it's not recommended.
33_66_99A+B - when you see Setsuka glow with lightning
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18, 30, or 41 dmg (62 if you get the AAB juggle to WC B:B)
*This move can be WCed to both sides, but you get more time to WC to her right (sword side not umbrella side) since her left side will sometimes lock you in after a moment.
> step and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/B:K (88B~6 if on right side) ~ 59 (and wakeup) or 66 dmg
*Note: Generally with Setsuka you'll be relying more on block punishing than evasive counters, but these should help out a little anyway. The JF counters in particular are useful as long as you remember to wait for Setsuka to flash white before WC-ing to the sword side.
vs. Siegfried
(still needs testing)
*After blocking 4A, you can avoid the mix-up ENTIRELY by stepping or WCing to Sophitia's left (Shield side) - 4A,B can be stepped to both sides, but to avoid confusion step to the shield side always. (2B+G on 1P side, 8B+G on 2P) The resulting counter attacks from this are...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*You can tack on the AAB followup to the JF, but sometimes it whiffs. WC works beautifully on both Sophitia's options, but doesn't do as much damage as stepping and doing 22B combos
> step right and 22B~6, AS B+K/B:K (88B~6 if on right side) ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*For 4A,B sometimes this won't work. It seems to have some sketchy tracking ability that will sometimes catch your step. WC is more reliable in this case.
*Note: If Sophitia uses the held version of 4[A],B, you cannot step or WC the second hit. On the 4[A], A series however, you still can.
66B+K, A, B (236~8_2B, A, B) - block the first two hits and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*WC works to both sides, but if you WC to Sophitia's left (sword side) you get a free back throw.
> step left and 88B~6 AS B+K/B:K (22B~6 if on 2P side) ~ 59 (and wakeup) or 65 dmg
*the last hit tracks step to her right slightly. WC works but quickstep doesn't.
*Note: You can duck the second hit if you block the first and use WS A for left ROs or FC 3BB combos for CH. This is hard to time though if you're not looking for it.
236AA - block the first hit and...
> WL A or WL K combos (both around 55 dmg)
*WL K is the better option here. WL A is usually the expected option and cause the opponent to duck. Also, if Sophitia uses 236B right after the low, WL A will trade with it so you lose the combo, and take more damage. WL K will beat this out for a slight decrease in damage.
236236AA - block the first hit and...
> AS A+K, 2A+B/44B/66A+B ~ 41, 45, or 48 dmg
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*Yet another Namco hitbox glitch, as this horizontal can be stepped to BOTH sides. This is useful mainly for the WC K. If Sophitia uses this with the edge to Talim's right you can get an easy RO with this.
> WL A or WL K combos (both around 55 dmg)
*WL K is the better option here. WL A is usually the expected option, and often causes the opponent to duck. Also, if Sophitia uses 236B right after the low, WL A will trade with it so you lose the combo, and take more damage. WL K will beat this out for a slight decrease in damage.
*All PO attacks and 8WR after blocking transitions can be beat by 2A or 33A EXCEPT PO 8K and Hover options - 2A has better mixup potential than 1A+B. 33A is harder to buffer but does better damage and ROs left.
*All PO attacks after blocking transitions EXCEPT PO 8K, 8WR, or Hover can be beat by 1A+B or 3B[A] - Timing is key for using CH 3B[A] against PO K since you have to delay it slightly. It's not reliable like 1A+B but if you get the WC B:B JF combo off it it's much better damage. better damage and wake up than 2A/33A
*PO Hover options can be countered with WL options - You can do this on reaction if you haven't conditioned yourself to 2A or 1A+B
4A+B, B (Bombs)- block the first bomb then...
> 9K ~ 21 dmg
*Easiest counter to use and does ok damage. 7K and 8K work also, but they do less damage than 9K.
> 11B ~ 21 dmg (Wind stance mixups)
*This isn't the best option, but it's not bad by any means. 11B is a little hard to buffer in time to jump the second bomb, but I found it easier to do 11B from FC rather than try to do it while standing.
> WL A, FC 3BB, AS A+K/A+B, 2A+B ~ around 50 dmg
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
*Unfortunately you only get a mixup out of this since neither is guaranteed punishment. Still, the rewards for guessing right are great. WL K is more likely to hit, but WL A is safe if it doesn't... decisions, decisions....
> AS~4 A+K, 2A+B ~ 41 dmg
*This is guaranteed and is her best option to handling the bombs. Trick is to hold 4 during the AS jump so you don't go too far over her head and have A+K whiff.
3KK~Wind Roll options - block the first two kicks. when you see her use WR...
> 3BA ~ 30 dmg
*If Taki attacks immediately from WR (WR A,B,K, or throw) 3B will get a CH stun and you know what that means...
> 1A+B, 2K/1K/2A+B ~ 27, 29, or 34 dmg
*Same as 3BA, but you'll get a knockdown whether she attacks immediately or not.
*Note: Remember to wait for WR before you do this. If she does all three kicks, 3BA will punish it anyway on block. However if she does 1 or 2 kicks and stops she can GI it or, if you use 1A+B, punish you after blocking it.
vs. Talim
(still needs testing)
BT B+K, B - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*This move tracks to Tira's left, so use 8B+K on the 1P side and 2B+K on the 2P side.
JS 44AB - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*This move tracks to Tira's right, so use 2B+K on the 1P side and 8B+K on the 2P side.
> step right and 33A ~ 35 dmg (ROs left)
*When doing this and/or 33B6B, remember to step right FIRST and then do the move. for some reason doing 8WR in the 3 direction causes you to still get hit. So step with 2 (8 if on 2P) then do the 33 input.
> step right and 22B~6, AS B+K/B:K (88B~6 if on right side) ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*Unless you're going for a ring-out, this is the counter to aim for as it does the most guaranteed damage.
JS 44A2A - block the first hit and...
> AS A+B ~ 30 dmg
> AS B+K~6, AS A+B, 2A+B ~ about 60 dmg
*The second one is trickier to pull off, but it's twice the damage so I'd say it's worth it. JS 44AA can also be Windsaulted, but you can only use AS A+K to do it. The only option Tira has to stop AS is JS 44AB which can be stepped or WCed
JS 6AB - block the first hit and...
> WL A, FC 3BB, AS A+K/A+B, 2A+B ~ around 50 dmg
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
*Neither of these two counters are guaranteed at mid/tip range, but it creates a mixup opportunity. If you know the player to block the low more often use WL K, and if they usually block standing WL A. If you're right in Tira's face however, WL K is guaranteed.
GS 6AAAAA - block the first two hits and...
> duck after the second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
*This one will work no matter how many A's Tira does after the second one.
> duck after the second hit and FC 3BB combos
*This one only works if Tira does the full 6AAAAA. If she does less than that you won't get the CH launch from FC 3BB. The first hit is still guaranteed though.
*Note: This move of Tira's is best used as a punisher, so you may see it if you do a move that the opponent thinks can be punished with this. You may not see it often, but whenever you do just remember that from the third hit onward they're all highs. WS A is your best option here since tech crouch moves don't work.
GS 6BK - block the first hit and...
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
*WL K is guaranteed against this since the low has too many recovery frames. Just make sure Tira follows up with the slide before inputting it. This will also work on GS 6bK, but you don't get the first hit to gauge your timing properly.
*All Landfish attacks EXCEPT LF B+K, can be avoided with 22_88K - If you were hit or stunned before the LF transition, you won't be able to do this evasion. LF B+K tracks in all directions so you can't step it. I don't see too many Voldos use this move on it's own anyway so it shouldn't be much of a problem.
*All Mantis Crawl attacks EXCEPT MCHT A and MCHT A+B can be countered with WC K - Mantis Crawl 66 can't be countered at all unless near a wall, but WC will evade it regardless. If Voldo goes into Landfish just use 22_88K to get around him.
*All Blind Stance attacks after blocking 6BB/4BA/FC 3B/33_66_99K and 1[K] can be beaten by 44K - Be careful about Voldo's 4A, 22B, and WR [K] transitions. They are much better frames on block, so a few of his faster moves can beat 44K. (22B forces you into crouch on block so WR K might be the better option there.) Even with this setback, Talim's 44K limits what options Voldo has from blind stance and nullifies a good deal of his basic mixups.
*Note: You can use 2K as the universal counter to Blind stance, but 44K gets you more damage and a knockdown, possibly a RO if the edge is to Talim's right side, whereas 2K leaves you at disadvantage on hit and keeps Voldo in BS. Even if Voldo blocks 44K, he can't punish her with any move from front. Sure, Voldo can step 44K to his right (Talim's left) in BS but if he starts doing that, use 44AA, 2A+B instead for even more damage.
3BB - Block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*Talim is one of a few characters with a built-in quickstep in WC. Characters without one of these auto stepping moves can only GI the second hit since it's extremely hard to step normally. This move is safe on block and does nasty soul gauge damage so it's best to use this.[/I
BS 33BB - Block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*You can WC to both sides, but if you try to step you can only step to the left as the move catches Talim's step to the right.
BS 22KK - If you block the first hit then...
> stay in crouch and 6A+B ~ 31 dmg
*If Voldo goes into Mantis Crawl after the second K, you can 236B him instead and follow up with whatever combo you choose.
*Note: Talim's 6B will not be auto GI-ed by Voldo's BS A+B. It's a staple counter for Voldo whenever his transition into BS is blocked. Even if Voldo guards, it'll force him out of BS and chip away at the gauge a bit as well. Voldo can beat Talim's 6B with BS AA or BB however.
*All of Xianghua's followups out of aK or 1kA, A can be completely shutdown with CH 2A on block - Both her aK and 1kA, A are safe if she doesn't follow up, but 2A will keep her in line if she thinks to try anything, (yes even SXS), other than block or GI. This is extremely important to remember when you see either of the two strings, as she has some nice mixups from those.
*All of Xianghua's followups out of 4K can be completely shutdown with CH 2A on block. All EXCEPT low throws can be beat with 1A+B - Xianghua's 2A trades with 1A+B but you deal more damage and still get the CH launch. Besides, how many people other than me even try that 4K to low throw followup anyways...?
*All of Xianghua's SXS transitions on block can be beat by 2A as well - If you block a string or catch Xianghua entering the stance you are given PLENTY of time to 2A her since she can't block. It goes under throws, the high and snuffs the mids. I guess it's safe to say 2A on block is the "X killer" for Talim
6BB - block the first hit and...
> 9K ~ 21 dmg
*7_8_9K works here. 9K does the most damage for some reason but 7K and 8K work just as well for 12 and 16 dmg respectively.
> jump and BB ~ 25 dmg
> jump and 11KA ~ 32 dmg
*This works 90% of the time as while it's slow enough to block, most people won't think to block low after having their own low jumped... unless they have low health maybe. Good mixups if it lands. Use the "8 way jump" method by inputting 11KA while in the air so it comes out as soon as you land
> AS A+K, 2A+B/44B/66A+B ~ 41, 45, or 48 dmg
44AA - block the first hit and...
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
> 3BA ~ 30 dmg (into WC mixups)
*Note: due to blockstun these moves tend to come out slower, but they do work.
2A+K,2K - block the first hit and...
> jump second sweep and BB ~ 25 dmg
> jump second sweep and 6B ~ 21 dmg (BT with +10 adv.)
*Note: you actually don't have to block the first hit. Xianghua's first sweep is telegraphed some, so instead use Talim's 22_88K to evade the first sweep. Xianghua's second sweep cannot track so you'll end up behind her. If you look close enough you'll see a "Launch Me" sign on her back, so go ahead and 236B her. For tips on timing, just recognize the slight pause before the sweep. If you can do that, this can be done on reaction.
2A+K,K - block the first hit and...
> WC K ~ 18 dmg (RO potential)
*Other than GI this is your only option if you block the first sweep
*Note: If you use 22_88K here, unfortunately her cartwheel puts her juuuust out of range for your launch and/or 66B. But for some odd reason 11_77B still reaches.... In fact you can substitute 11B for 22K to TJ the sweep if you like.
vs. Yoda
(still needs testing)
vs. Yoshimitsu
(still needs testing)
vs. Yun-Seong
(still needs testing)
6A+B, B/6A+B, {B} - block the first two hits and...
> AAB ~ 36 dmg (due to CH)
*Talim's AAB will interrupt both the regular and GB versions for CH damage. Also, even if Zasalamel opts to not use the second B, AA will block punish him. No guessing required. (This works for K as well. Gives less damage, but better frames on hit.)
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 19, 30, or 41 dmg (62 w/ AAB followup on JF)
> WC A+K, 11B/2A+B/44B/22B ~ 39, 42, 45, or 49 dmg
*All WC attacks will hit due to Zasalamel's slow recovery. These only work if he commits to the third hit. Another problem is that if he uses the held version, it'll track if you use WC too soon. Useable, but not as practical as AA or K.
22_88KK - block the first hit and...
> duck the second K and WS A ~ 21 dmg ROs left
*This is her best counter option. You could opt to force a mixup instead after ducking for a chance for greater damage, but this is her best guaranteed one.
Yo. After hours of messing around in training mode, I've decided to compile a list of various counter options Talim has with dealing with certain moves of other characters. This will likely take a while for me to accomplish, but you guys can help if you know of some stuff I haven't listed that works.
Keep in mind that this is not, I repeat, NOT intended as a block and punishment list, but rather, a list of suggested strategies to handling those annoying attacks from the other characters.
*Talim Counter-Attacks List*
vs. Algol
(still needs testing)
vs. Amy
*All transitions into AS attacks EXCEPT 6BB into AS B can be beat with 6K on block - this causes CH stun which lets you use shake stun mixups. The timing is extremely strict for AS B but it IS possible if you know when to suspect an AS transition.
*All transitions into AS attacks EXCEPT AS A, can be avoided with WC on block - AS B covers Amy's right a little, but even if you get hit, you have time to recover and attack before Amy can. WC to her left and you take no damage. More damage potential than 6K
*Note: Using WC will eventually condition the Amy player to use AS A whenever they're in AS. When you notice this you can just BB or 6K them
1KA - block the first hit and...
> duck A and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (but gives +4 and great mixup potential)
> duck A and WS A ~ 20 dmg
*ROs to Talim's left
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
>3BA ~ 30 dmg (into BT or WC mixups)
*Don't hold the A at all and it'll combo. What you do from BT or WC is your choice.
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*great damage, RO potential, and surprisingly easy to time. Just 236B right as the 1K impacts. If you can remember to do it, always use this counter
3BA - block the first hit and...
> 9K ~ 21 dmg
*7_8_9K is the ONLY one of Talim's many jumping moves that works here. 9K does the most damage for some reason but 7K and 8K work just as well for 12 and 16 dmg respectively.
> jump and BB ~ 25 dmg
> jump and 11KA ~ 32 dmg
*This works 90% of the time as while it's slow enough to block, most people won't think to block low after having their own low jumped... unless they have low health maybe. Good mixups if it lands. Use the "8 way jump" method by inputting 11KA while in the air so it comes out as soon as you land
4BB - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*The second hit tracks to Amy's left. WC to the right (away from the sword side) and let her have it. WC A+K is a good option too, but it CAN be blocked. Try it maybe once and if they block don't do it a second time.
> step toward Amy's right and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K (22B~6 if on right side) ~ 58 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*not recommended. It doesn't always let you quickstep at certain ranges, so you risk getting hit
66B/6:6B~2~8 - block the hit then...
> throw ~ 48-60 dmg depending on throw
*Not the best option but it's decent. Amy has a tremendous sidestep after the move that goes around a lot of Talim's horizontals. This will grab her no matter which side she steps. It can be broken, but it isn't likely during this move.
*Note: for some strange reason 236B+G command throw doesn't grab her if she steps to Talim's right, yet the regular throws do....
> FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4 adv. and mixup potential)
*Amy's 66B forces crouch on block. This move will catch Amy regardless of the side she steps to guaranteed. She can use 66BA, but using FC 2A will cause you to duck under her second attack.
> 4A ~ 18 dmg
*Hits Amy regardless of the side she steps to and it's guaranteed. She can use 66BA, but if you wait a second before using 4A from crouch you'll hit her out of the air.
> WC AA ~ 18 (mixup potential)
*Since Amy's 66B puts you in crouch you can only do 8B+K version of WC. WC AA will hit her regardless of side and will punish her before she can recover. Still, it's not recommended unless you know your opponent because if Amy uses 66BA it'll hit you.
vs. Apprentice
AAB - block first two hits and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*You can only WC this to the left since it tracks to your right. (1P 8B+K, 2P 2B+K)
> step left (Apprentice's right) and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*Not recommended. This doesn't always work as sometimes you can still be hit trying to step. WC is more reliable
6BBK - block first two hits and...
> duck the third and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
> duck the third and WS A+B, 44K/33A/6AA ~ 55, 56, or 58 dmg
*You get plenty of time to land this counter, so unless you're going for RO, use this.
*Note: You could duck the second hit, but it's not recommended to get into the habit of doing this. He can always mix it up with 6B3B instead which would launch you if you ducked. This also works if Apprentice does B+K, B... or 2B+K:BB... to transition into the 6B series.
33BB - block the first hit and...
> 6B ~ 26 dmg due to CH (+10 adv. and BT)
*6B will punish Apprentice's 33B on block even if he decides not to use the second hit. So throwing this out after blocking 33B is guaranteed regardless.
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 22 dmg (shake stun mixups)
*6K will punish Apprentice's 33B on block even if he decides not to use the second hit. So throwing this out after blocking 33B is guaranteed regardless.
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*1A+B will punish Apprentice's 33B on block even if he decides not to use the second hit. So throwing this out after blocking 33B is guaranteed regardless.
> 3B[A], WC B:B, AAB, BT 2K ~ 63 dmg
*3B will cause CH stun interrupting the second attack. This should be done immediately after blocking the first hit and there's only 18 frames between Apprentice's first and second hit. 3B can't punish Apprentice's 33B on block due to range.
33_66_99AB - block the first hit and...
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 50, or 51 dmg
> WL A, FC 3BB, AS A+K/A+B, 2A+B ~ around 55 dmg
*All of the WL options are free, because of the recovery frames. I didn't put WL B down because doing WL K, 66B, gives the same results with more damage. You could even use 6A+B after WL K if you want a RO.
FC 8K:A - block the first attack and...
> duck the saber throw and WS A ~ 21 dmg (ROs left)
> duck the saber throw and WS A+B, 44K/33A/6AA ~ 55, 56, or 58 dmg
> duck the saber throw and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 63, 67, or 71 dmg
*You actually get a good amount of time to do these if you already know which one you're going to do. WS A+B is really easy for good damage, 236B combos do more damage but can be a little hard to pull off if you tend to hesitate.
*Note: Apprentice's FC 8K:A is a move best used in combos, so you may not see this that often, but this is good to know anyway just in case.
vs. Astaroth
*Both 1[A]A and 1[A]B can be beat with AS B+K~6, AS A+B on reaction if you're standing - If not and you're forced to block 1[A] after getting knocked down, there's really nothing you can do besides block (or GI if he uses B)
BB/B{B} - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
11_77BK - The first hit whiffs and....
> 2A ~ 9 dmg (but +10 of CH and mixups.... ahh the greatness of 2A)
*the advantage of this move is the fact that CH or not, you still get decent adv. and mixup opportunities. If Astaroth expect one of the later counters and tries to trick you with only using 11B, the move is punishable anyway. (even by 236B) 2A will hit no matter what he does (or doesn't do for that matter)
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 21 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
*can be done on reaction quite easily. As soon as the axe hits the ground next to you, throw this out. Timing is very forgiving here.
> 1A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 26, 27, 29, or 34 dmg
> 3BA ~ 32 dmg (into WC mixups)
> 4BB (CH stun), 2A+B/44B/22B/66A+B ~ 49, 51 dmg or 60 dmg
*Just as easy to time as 6K with better guaranteed results
*Note: You can use 236B to interrupt the followup, but it's NOT recommended. Though it CAN be done, you have to know the move is coming. This is not a move most Astaroth's use often so the chances of that are minimal.
214AAAAAA - If after blocking a few hits, Astaroth moves away from you during the move...
> 66B. 2A+B/44B ~ 44, or 47 dmg (22B gives 51 dmg if near the edge and both hits connect)
*This will only work if you time 66B right after the final spin whiffs. This'll also work if he's moving to the foreground if, after blocking, you run and follow him hitting 66B when he stops. Doesn't seem to work for background movement though.
> AS B+K~6, AS A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 61, 62, 63 or 69 dmg
*Can be slightly tricky to pull off sometimes, but even if you get hit, it's minimal risk for attempting it.
> AS K~6, AS B+K ~ 41-45 dmg
*Do this one once you see that he starts backing off. I think it's a little easier to time than the AS B+K one, but I'll let you be the judge.
9B+K - If you see this coming...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*can be done on reaction easily. Probably the best and only secure option she has here.
> 3BA ~ 32 dmg on CH (into WC mixups)
*Not recommended. I used to like this but the more I practice it the more I realize how strict the timing is. Add to that any nervousness and the likelyhood of landing this is almost nil.
Note: If you manage to hit Astaroth near just as he comes down from the peak of his jump with 3B, you can fully charge [A] to give the slam effect to knock him out of the air. You can even follow that with Ice Wind Combo for 66 damage! This won't likely happen in a real match but damn is it cool to watch!
66K/66[K] (Bullrush) - When you see Astaroth get in position for it...
> WC K ~ 18 dmg
*The K is free and great for RO if Asta tries to bullrush you out. WC A+K is good for wakeup, but like in most cases, it CAN be blocked.
*Note: If you block bullrush, there's a chance the Astaroth will go for another one or use the 6K knee. Either way WC K is the answer. The knee you can WC on reaction, but it's trickier. If you see another bullrush coming, consider it free damage (or RO) for Talim. Also keep in mind that if you block bullrush and Astaroth EXPECTS you to WC he could try a throw or something to catch it. This can be resolved by...
> 2A after blocking bullrush ~ 10 dmg (and gives +10 off CH and great mixup potential)
> 2K/2B after blocking bullrush ~ 15 or 17 dmg
*These two options will beat anything (even low throws) Astaroth tries after bullrush is blocked.
2B+K into Throw attempt - Block the stomp and...
> 2A ~ 8 dmg (gives +4 and mixup potential)
*staple throw evasion tactic. No high level Astaroth will forsake the throw attempt after 2B+K is blocked due to it's safety hazards. The only risk here is eating a low throw. If that is the case, doing 2A should break the A throw anyway. If he uses B (the most damaging of the two) try mashing B after doing 2A. (i.e. 2ABBB) If you're quick enough you should break the B throw also on the last frames. Not a guaranteed strategy, but it's as close as you're gonna get.
> K ~ 12-14 dmg (due to CH)
*This is her best option after blocking Astaroth's 2B+K because it requires no guessing at all. If he uses the crouch throw, Talim's K will beat it for CH. If he does nothing K will punish. And K will also trade with Asta's standing throw causing him to take damage and preventing the throw.
*These are for Standing throw followups only. Low grabs will still connect
> duck throw and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to her left)
> 3BA ~ 30 dmg (into WC mixups)
>1A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 26, 27, 29, or 34 dmg
> duck throw and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 61, 63, or 67 dmg
*Be aware that you don't start the 236B too fast or you'll stand back up into the grab. It's a great counter, just be careful. Also, if you anticipate a standing throw, you could do 236{B} instead and hold it until the right time.
*These are for Low throw followups only. Standing grabs will still connect
> 1A ~ 18 dmg (into WC mixups)
vs. Cassandra
BK - block the first hit and...
> duck under K and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4 on hit and mixups potential)
> duck under K and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to Talim's left)
> 1A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 26, 27, 29, or 34 dmg
> 4A+B ~ 30 dmg (puts Talim in BT with adv.)
*Note: you CAN do 236B after blocking the first hit but the timing is extremely hard, so you're better off without it as tempting as it may be.
66B+K, A, B - block the first two hits and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*WC to Cassandra's left only as the last hit of the string tracks to her right
*Note: The first hit of the string forces crouch on block. Considering that the A is a high, you can...
> FC 2A ~ 10 dmg (+10 on CH and mixups)
> WS A ~ 25 dmg due to CH (ROs to Talim's left)
> FC 3BB, AS A+B/B+K ~ 37 or 47 (and wakeup game)
*For some reason AS B whiffs on her after this so B+K is the most damaging option this time. Also, FC 3BB will always give the CH launch if you do 3BB immediately after blocking 66B+K. The options for staying crouched after 66B+K work for both 66B+K, A, B and 66B+K, A, K
4AB - block the first hit and...
> K ~ 14 dmg due to CH
*This is the ONLY move Talim has that will interrupt the B followup as you need at least a 14 frame move to do so. Talim's AA, 2A, and 1B have the speed, but will all be GI'd by the shield.
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
> step to Cassandra's right (sword side) and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*Somehow you can only step to her right side after blocking the first hit. However, if you manage to duck the first hit, you can quickstep in either direction to use this counter. WC can be done to either side regardless of blocking or ducking.
22_88AA - block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4 adv. and mixups)
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to the left)
*Note: If you ducked the first hit you can do 236{B} and hold it till the second hit passes overhead. If you can remember not to stand back up, this is the counter you should be using. Even if Cassandra only uses the first hit, you can't be punished for using the held 236B on block anyway. I don't see many Cassandra's use this move, but when you see it react accordingly.
4BB:A - block the first two hits and....
> duck last hit and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4 adv. and mixups)
> duck last hit and WS A ~ 21 dmg (ROs to the left)
> 22K ~ 19 dmg (possible mixup potential)
*Normally you wouldn't go for this unless you have a firm lead. However, once again, know your opponent. if they tend to freeze after the move hits, go for the chain throw. If they duck, BB or 1B. Either way this method should be saved for near the end of a match to drain the last bit of their life bar.
> 1A+B, 2K/2B/1K/2A+B ~ 26, 27, 29, or 34 dmg
> 3BA ~ 30 dmg (into WC mixups)
> 33A ~ 36 dmg (ROs to her left)
*33A will randomly cause a stun instead of a knockdown. If this happens follow through with the stun combo of your choice. It's almost guaranteed since your opponent probably won't expect to be stunned and forget that it's shakeable. Just try to keep this in mind so you're not caught off guard and miss your chance.
> 66A+B ~ 33 dmg (ROs forward)
*You can cancel 66A+B after the TC and maybe sneak in a throw after your opponent freezes up. It's better to go for the guaranteed damage, but if you know your opponent to freeze up on defense, go for it once in a while.
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
*Yes, for some reason WC works on either side of the horizontal.
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*You actually get enough time to fully charge 236{B} if you start the move right after blocking the second hit. You don't need to do this, and it's not recommended unless you're going for gauge damage as well. But if you can manage it just add around 20 dmg to the total.
*Note: There's a LOT of counters for this move, and in most cases, good Cassandra's will refuse to use this when their opponent is standing. Especially since 4BB by itself is only punishable by Talim's K or AA. So don't go into a match thinking you'll see it. Rather, just react in the off chance that you do.
33KK - block first hit and...
> FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (+4, mixups)
> duck second K and WS A+B, AAB/4A+B/33A ~ 50, 52, or 54 dmg
*If you land WS A+B near a wall, replace all of the followups with one of her wall combos. For less damage you could also use 44B or 11B instead for oki related stuff. Even 1A works for those who love to tech up right away.
> duck second K and WS A ~ 21 dmg (ROs to the left)
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*Timing is a little strict, but it's doable.
*Note: Keep in mind that Cassandra can mix this move up with 33K, A+K to throw you off. None of these counters work against it. WS A and FC 3BB will interrupt it for a CH if you use it straight after blocking the first K though.
vs. Cervantes
(still needs testing)
vs. Darth Vader
(still needs testing)
vs. Hilde
3BB - block the first hit and...
> CH 1A+B, AAB, 2K ~ 50 dmg
*1A+B actually will work on both 3BB and 3BA. And AAB followup works on Hilde. Gotta love 1A+B.
> CH 3B[A], WC B:B, AAB, 2K ~ 63 dmg
*It's hard to say when to time this, because sometimes both hits will trade and you lose your combo opportunity. Even with the trade, Talim will take less damage than Hilde. If you land CH 3B[A], you could also do Ice wind combo for 50 dmg
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF)
> step and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
> step and 33_99A ~ 38 dmg (ROs left)
> step and 33_99B:6B, 2A+B ~ 49 dmg (ROs forward)
*even if you don't get the JF version, 39 dmg is still nothing to take lightly for a counter attack
> step and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*44B isn't recommended here just because sometimes the camera will screw with you and make your input 66B instead. So to avoid losing free damage go with 2A+B or 22B. Against Hilde you'll need all the damage you can get.
3BA - block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
> duck second hit and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*Keep in mind that Hilde's 3BB comes out a good bit slower than this move so you'll probably have a second to confirm which one she's doing. If you choose to duck, get ready to do so cause the A version comes out fast. If she pauses longer, you'll still get time to WC the B version.
*Note: Some of the better Hilde players don't even bother with either of these two moves, but they may throw it out there once in a while. Always good to be prepared.
1B - If you see Hilde hop backwards...
> AS B+K~6, AS A+B, 2A+B ~ about 62 dmg
*In a real match this can be slightly tricky to time, but if you watch Hilde's backstep movement you can nail her. Or you could replace it with AS A, WC AA if you're worried you were a little off. Chances are that'll land more often because the first instinct is normally to block standing after recovery.
*Note: 1B is the only backstepping move Hilde has. Because of that, Some Hilde players love to throw this in their arsenal. If you can look for the back hop, you can use Wind Sault every time.
*CHARGE MOVE COUNTERS*
*The following tactics are extremely player dependent and will NOT always work on every Hilde user. The majority of them will work on generic Charge based style of play. At the very least, using these should get Hilde players to make an effort to use some of her regular moves more.
*After blocking C2 B or C3 B, All A-charge followups can be beat with 2A, 6B, 6K, or 3B[A] for CH - 2A is easiest to land. 6K is better than 2A, but if Hilde blocks, it's punishable. 6B is more guaranteed damage than 6K and will put you in BT at +10 frames. 3B[A] is the best option for damage and especially if you can get the re-stun combo with the WC B:B JF.
*Note: Keep in mind Hilde CAN use other moves (i.e. 2A, 2K, 6A+K...etc) that are not interruptible on block. (3B[A] will still TC under her 6A+K or any other highs) This sequence of C2 B/C3 B ~ C2/C3 A is very common amongst Hilde players. This is especially true if your back is to the edge. If you can react to the second flash, it's free damage. Also, if Hilde does use 2A or 2K alot, you can use AS A+K instead.
*After blocking C2 A or C3 A, you can beat all B-charge followups with 6B or 6K for CH - Same as above. This setup isn't nearly as common, but it does show up every once in awhile. Stepping is a better option, but if 6B/6K/2A is drilled into your mind from the previous sequence, it doesn't hurt to use it here as well.
*After blocking C2 A or C3 A, you can step all B-charge followups to Hilde's right (sword side) and use 88B combos - (22B on 2P side) You kind of have to anticipate this follow up to step them properly. Particularly C3 B since it has slight tracking. But if you know your opponent to use this setup, simply react to the second flash again.
*Note: Since you can step these followups you can also WC them. stepping with 22_88B combos gets more damage, but you can utilize WC B:B combos or even WC throws. (If C1 B is used you might get a free back throw). Once again, Hilde doesn't have to use B-charge followups.
vs. Kilik
*All of Kilik's options from Back Parry stance can be avoided/countered with 22_88K - This won't yield much damage if it hits, but it avoids anything out of that stance even if it doesn't hit. If Kilik GIs you with BP, though, it doesn't work.
6AAA - block first two hits and...
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
66A - When you see the move coming...
> A+B, 236A, 236B (Ice Wind Combo) ~ 47 dmg
*This must be timed so that you TC as the pole swings across. If you can expect it, it's not as hard as it sounds. There's really no setup for 66A so it'll mainly be used at range to space you. Luckily, IWC has a slight suction effect that will draw opponents in from a decent range away.
4B+K - When you see Kilik hop backwards...
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (shake stun mixups)
> 4BB (CH stun), 2A+B/44B/22B/66A+B ~ 51, 54, 53, or 56 dmg
> WL A, FC 3BB, AS A+K/AS A+B, 2A+B ~ 54 or 55 dmg
* This will likely land more than WL K because, if timed properly, Kilik will only have a fraction of a second to decide to block standing or crouching. You can easily switch it up if it doesn't. WL B is sometimes guaranteed depending on timing. Obviously, If Kilik does this while you're in mid-animation, this counter won't work.
> step and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*For this to work, you must do 22_88B as soon as you step the move. Otherwise, Kilik will jump back out of range causing Talim to whiff. You could opt to use 33B:6B instead for easier timing and decent damage
> step and 33_99A ~ 37 dmg (ROs left)
4B/4{B} - If you see Kilik about to do this move...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18 (mixups), 29, or 39 dmg (61 if you get the AAB followup after the JF) *In this rare case you can add WC A+K combos into the mix as well since 4B's recovery makes them guaranteed. If WC A+K hits at tip 22B followup whiffs.
> step and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/AS B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*If you avoid this at tip the 22B launcher will whiff so use 66B instead to punish from further out
> step and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 63, 67,or 71 dmg
*Like 22B if attempted at tip range of 4B it'll whiff so use 66B combos instead.
*Note: 4{B} is easier to see coming than 4B due to slower startup and lightning, but the key thing to remember is that there's not a whole lot of mids that Kilik can do to reach as far from standing.
B+K, 6B, 41236B (Asura) - block first hit and...
> WC A+K, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 43, 46 or 50 dmg
*WC must be done to the left to avoid the second hit of Asura. (8B+K for 1P, 2B+K for 2P) After that the most guaranteed damage is WC A+K combos. If Kilik stops at the second hit he can block WC A+K, but the other WC options become guaranteed instead. Most good Kilik players won't do the 3rd hit of Asura if the first two are blocked/avoided.
*Note: Aside from GI-ing the second or third hit, there's nothing else you can do to counter Asura on block other than WC. The GB version of Asura isn't too kind on the Soul Gauge, but the WC tactics will still work even on the GB version.
vs. Ivy
Coil 6AK - block the first hit and...
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
Coil A+B cancel into low/mid attack - block the first hit and...
> crouch block (cancel confirm) FC A ~ 10 dmg (but gives +10 off CH and great mixup potential)
*works against anything Ivy throws out after cancel.
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K/AAB ~ 40, 34, 32, or 42 dmg
*easy to pull off on most followups. Timing can be really tight if Ivy uses CL WS AA.
> Crouch block (cancel confirm) WS A ~ 24 dmg
*Easier to do than 1A+B, but less damage from lack of followups.
> Crouch block (cancel confirm) 6K (CH stun) ~ 21 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
*Note: Be absolutely sure that Ivy has canceled the move after the first hit before attempting these. If you do so without confirming you could be eating some major stun combo damage
Coil 214{B} into SE attacks - block 214 and...
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
> 4BB (CH stun), 2A+B/44B/22B/66A+B ~ 51, 54, 53, or 56 dmg
*If blocked at tip range, 4BB will whiff. Otherwise, this will beat anything out of SE. Only causes CH if Ivy attacks immediately
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 70, 73, or 77 dmg due to CH
*Only whiffs if Ivy sidesteps before attacking in SE. Awesome free damage and RO potential here
Whip 3{B} into SE attacks - block the first hit and...
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
*SE K will beat out any of Talim's attacks including this. Since most Ivy's use this followup, 6K isn't recommended
> WC AA ~ 19 dmg (into WC mixups)
*best option due to damage potential. WC to Ivy's left side only, since her SE moves track to her right
Sword 1KBK - block the first hit and...
> 2A ~ 9 dmg (but gives +10 off CH and great mixup potential)
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 21 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
> 66B. 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 44, 47, or 38 dmg (22B gives 51 dmg if near the edge and both hits connect)
> AS A+B ~ 30 dmg
> AS A+K, 2A+B/44B/66A+B ~ 41, 45, or 48 dmg
*66A+B appears to be a block trap. If they block, go for the multi-part throw
> AS~4 A, WC AA ~ 38 dmg (into WC mixups)
*Nice damage potential from mixups. Key is holding 4 to shorten the AS A so you don't go past her
> AS~4 B+K (stun) AS~4 A+B, 2A+B ~ 58 dmg
*This is sometimes tricky to pull off, but well worth it if you can react quick enough. Again, hold 4 to shorten the AS jumps so you don't overshoot her.
*Note: Although it may look the same, the SW 1KBK tricks do NOT work for SW 8B+K K.
vs. Lizardman
(still needs testing)
vs. Maxi
*All followups after transition attacks EXCEPT A+BG from neutral into Right Cross can be beat by 1A+B on block - If Maxi does Wavering Light, it GIs 1A+B. To avoid this, just delay the 1A+B input for Wavering Light. A+BG forces crouch so 1A+B is impossible. If this happens, use WS A to beat out all of Maxi's options. I'm only listing this counter because it's the most reliable.
FC 3A/3AA/3AAA~Right Outer - After getting hit...
> 1A+B, 2K/1K/2A+B/AAB ~ 27, 29, 34, or 42 dmg
*This move will beat all of Maxi's options except RO B and sidestep. RO A without the K will be just outside of 1A+B's range though. AAB followup works here as well.
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18, 29, or 39 dmg (61 w/ AAB followup on JF)
*This beats out all of Maxi's options except RO A series. Unfortunately, RO AK is usually the most common followup since it's the fastest and he's also at +4 from the lows. This will beat any attacks after sidestep though.
*Note: 1A+B will work on RO B if you block FC 3A series. Usually this isn't blocked, though, so fortunately 1A+B is still a devastating weapon against RO stance.
3B~Right Outer - after blocking the first hit...
> 1A+B, 2K/1K/2A+B/AAB ~ 27, 29, 34, or 42 dmg
*1A+B beats every followup here except RO B and WL. If Maxi starts solely using RO B to beat 1A+B you can WC it.
6A~Right Outer - after blocking the first hit...
> 1A+B, 2K/1K/2A+B/AAB ~ 27, 29, 34, or 42 dmg
*1A+B beats everything but WL. This also works the same for 2KB~Right Outer
44B~Right Outer - After blocking the first hit...
> WS A ~ 20-25 dmg (Rings Out left)
*This move puts you in FC so WS A will once again take the place of 1A+B. WS A beats anything Maxi does as a followup including the WL aGI.
44AB~Right Outer - after blocking the first hit...
> FC 3BB, AS K ~ 39 dmg
*Like 44B, this puts you in FC on block as well. WS A works on most of the followups, but RO A will hit you since it doesn't TC. CH FC 3BB however, beats everything except WL. It hits off axis so everything from windsault whiffs except AS A and AS K. K does more damage.
*Note: 1A+B is pretty dominant against most of RO attacks as well as RC. Using 1A+B after blocking moves that don't force crouch will ultimately limit the amount of options Maxi has to use. He CAN get around 1A+B, but you get the benefit of conditioning him to use those other options and therefore have less guessing to do.
vs. Mitsurugi
2KB - step right and...
> 22_88B~6, AS B+K/AS B:K ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*2KB can be 8WR to the right if you're doing it as he uses the move. Otherwise both hits can be single stepped to the right. The B part re-tracks, so if you step it you'll have to step it twice.
*Note: Another thing you can do is after stepping right once to avoid 2K, you can step the B to the left before using the above counter. As complicated as this may sound, it's still more doable than blocking it. If you do block it though, use 44AA, 2A+B and disregard this counter.
> 9K (to jump the low and interrupt) ~ 25 dmg due to CH
*Probably the most practical counter for every character really, but has to be anticipated
> 22_88K (to jump the low and sidestep the B)
*Just as useful as 9K minus the damage. However, you can do this to either side and afterwards have a large window to launch him. You can use...
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B ~ 67 dmg
> 22_88B~6, AS B+K/AS B:K ~ 64 (and wakeup) or 70 dmg
*Note: I only listed 2A+B after the 236B, 66B combo since it's the most reliable. For some reason 44B whiffs, and 22B doesn't get full damage. The 22B combo with AS B+K gives better wakeup anyway for only 3 dmg less.
66BB - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 19, 30, or 41 dmg (62 w/ AAB followup on JF)
> WC A+K, 11B/2A+B/44B/22B ~ 39, 42, 45, or 50 dmg
*Yes, every WC option is guaranteed here. (except throws of course). 22B sometimes doesn't get full damage. (might be something with Mitsurugi's hitbox), but all other followups for WC A+K work. It's also a little harder to hit the AAB after the JF combo.
> step left (Mitsurugi's right) and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/AS B:K ~ 59 (and wakeup) or 67 dmg
*This is likely Talim's best option since if Mitsurugi doesn't use the second B, (most good ones won't) you leave yourself less open than in WC.
vs. Nightmare
*All transitions into NSS attacks EXCEPT NSS K can be beat with FC 3BB after blocking the first hit - a NSS A+B will also still hit. Note that NSS K prevents the launch from FC 3BB, but you still get the first hit free.
*All transitions into Grim Stride attacks can be beat by 1A+B. Just be aware of the timing for GS A's aGI. 2A works here as well and is easier to do, but does less damage. Use whichever one works best for you.
4KK - block first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30 or 41 dmg
*Second punch tracks to his left, so WC to the side he's punching with
44BB - block first hit and...
> step toward NM's back and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K (22B~6 if on right side) ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*not recommended. It doesn't always let you quickstep at certain ranges, so you risk getting launched
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30 or 41 dmg
*NM's first hit forces crouch, and the second tracks to his left. So only use the 8B+K version on the 1P side. On 2P side, don't use this at all and stick to GI.
1{B}, NSS A+B - block first hit and...
> WS B ~ 21 dmg due to CH
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*Since NM 1 forces crouch, always do the 8B+K version of WC regardless of which side you're on. Also the AAB followup on WC B:B whiffs on NM)
> FC 3BB, AS A+B/B+K/B:K ~ 37, 47 (and wakeup game), or 55 dmg
*The timing for the CH version is very tight. If you do it a bit later it clashes with NSS A+B. It'll still launch but the damage will decrease. (With clash: AS A+B ~ 27 dmg, AS B+K 38 dmg, and AS B:K gives 31 since the JF whiffs after clash.)
3A2A6 - block first hit and...
> 6K (CH stun) ~ 23 dmg (into shake stun mixups)
> 1A+B (CH launch) 2A+B/AAB ~ 42, or 46 dmg (into BT mixups)
> 8B, BT K ~ 44 dmg
> AS A+K, 2A+B/44B/66A+B ~ 41, 45, or 48 dmg
*66A+B appears to be a block trap. If they block, go for the multi-part throw
> WL B, 2A+B/44B ~ 46, or 49 dmg
*Not recommended. Timing is strict. GS A will GI WL B if done too late
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
*Not recommended unless used for RO. Timing is strict. GS A will GI the WL K if done too late
> WL A, FC3BB, AS A+K, 2A+B ~ around 69 dmg due to CH
> WL A, FC3BB, AS A+B, 2A+B ~ around 72 dmg due to CH
vs. Raphael
*All followups out of Prep can be countered with step 33A after blocking the transition EXCEPT for 44A{B} - Using 33A on it's own won't work. You have to step in either direction before using 33A. Since Raphael's 44A{B} forces crouch on block, you can't step in time to use this. In that case just block, GI, or stay in crouch and react only if you see Prep A+B, VE, or SEA. This way if he does anything else you'll take minimal damage.
Note: Something you must be aware of is if Raphael does empty Prep and blocks, he can punish Talim's 33A with 3{B} and now you're faced with more Prep tricks.
6BBB - block the first two hits and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg (62 if you get the AAB followup from the JF)
*This can be done to either side and is the most reliable option. Raph can go into Prep though, and you'll see that more than the 6BBB string so be careful. WC B:B/WC K still work wonders if they try Prep, but it doesn't beat everything.
> step and 33A ~ 35 dmg
*This would be the best option, but being able to step the last B is tricky and unreliable. Sometimes you won't be able to step it and take damage.
22_88{B} ~ VE - block the first hit and...
> 1A+B (CH launch), 2A+B/AAB ~ 39 or 42 dmg (into BT mixups)
*This will stop any followup attack from VE, but Raphael can auto-evade it with another VE. If you use this against good Raphaels, use it very sparingly.
> 33A ~ 35 dmg (ROs left)
*Again, 33A will beat everything here. This time you don't need to worry about stepping first, and even better, there's no risk involved. 33A will punish Raphael if he tries to do nothing in VE and block. It can't be auto evaded either. Doesn't do as much damage as 1A+B but it's still the best counter option.
22_88AA - block first hit and...
> duck and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
*this option is great because it works on whatever string Raphael decides to do after the first hit. If he does 22_88AB, you can block the low and punish with WS A. If he does 22_88ABB, you'll block the low and WS A will interrupt his third hit.
*Note: Because of it's horrible lack of safety, this string will likely not be used often, (if at all) by higher level Raphael players. They might just stop after the first one and use it as a poke. Keep that in mind.
vs. Rock
(still needs testing)
vs. Seong Mi-Na
*All strings in the Dancing Fang series (1B, A/B/K) can be beat out with 1A+B after blocking the first hit - Upon further testing it seems 1B,K will sometimes beat Talim's 1A+B. It may be range dependent or something. This will work 100% on the other options though. Mina can opt to just use 1B, but Talim can block punish that with her own 1B or AA.
(1A+B is the universal counter to Dancing Fang, but each string has it's own set of counters to play with.)
1B, A - block first hit and...
> 3BA ~ 33 dmg (scores CH into WC mixups)
*Since 3B will get a CH, it'll stun her long enough to hold the A for the dizzy stun. Finish that up with the WC B:B, AAB just like her staple combo from BT B for 62 dmg.
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
> WL A, FC3BB, AS A+K (or AS A+B), 2A+B ~ around 60 dmg
> WL B, 2A+B/44B ~ 46, or 49 dmg (RO potential)
*WL can be EASILY done on reaction and should be your best bet for a counter since everything aside from the Unblockable will hit for free. The only exception is WL K won't reach Mina at tip range before she can block it.
> Jump the A and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*Mina's recovery time from whiffing the low allows for all kinds of free damage without much effort.
*Note: In what's likely another Namco oversight, you can actually STEP the HORIZONTAL low to the left (Mina's right) and do the same 236B counter. This also enables WC options to that side, but you won't need it since 236B and WL are free.
1B, B - block the first hit and...
> duck the second B and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*This only works to Mina's left side so use 2B+K on 1P side and 8B+K on 2P.
1B, K - block the first hit and...
> 1B ~ 24 dmg
*Not highly recommended. It is good, but since 1B isn't used much you probably won't think to pull it out immediately.
> AAB ~ 30 dmg
*Easier to land than 1B, I think.
6BA - block the first hit and...
> 11_77B ~ 20 dmg (into Wind transitions)
*This isn't ridiculously hard to time but it might be difficult pulling this off on reaction during a real fight.
> AAB ~ 30 dmg
> step left and 88B~6, AS B+K/B:K (22B~6 if on right side) ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*You could actually do the 236B counter instead after stepping for a bit more damage. Timing is a lot stricter though.
> AS A+B ~ 30 dmg (RO potential)
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*This only works to Mina's right side so use 8B+K on 1P side and 2B+K on 2P.
6BB - block first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*To Mina's left side only. Use 2B+K on 1P side and 8B+K on 2P. This works for Mina's BBB as well
6B+K - block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (but gives +4 and great mixup potential)
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg
*ROs to Talim's left
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
> duck second hit and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*great damage, RO potential, but kinda tough to time. If you have the reflexes and the concentration go for this one every time
A+B - nothing you can do if you block the first hit. BUT, if you duck under it, then...
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*There need not be any other tactics unless you need WS A to RO to your left. but come on, it's 236B! Just try to remember to stay crouched and not stand back up to block.
3KK - block the first kick and...
> duck second kick and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (but gives +4 and great mixup potential)
> duck second kick and WS A ~ 20 dmg
*ROs to Talim's left
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
66KKK - block the first two kicks and...
> duck last K and FC 2A ~ 8 dmg (but gives +4 and great mixup potential)
> duck last K and WS A ~ 20 dmg
*ROs to Talim's left
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
*2K combos with NH 1A+B, even though it's the least damaging option
> 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 69 dmg
*Tougher than 6B+K to time. It's an awesome reward if you can react quick enough, though
vs. Setsuka
1B:B - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA ~ 16 or 18 dmg
*WC to Setsuka's right (sword side) immediately after seeing the JF flash. This counter also works for her FC 3B:B as well.
*Note: WC B:B, AAB combo doesn't work on 1B:B because Setsuka has enough recovery to block it. It does work on FC 3B:B though
22BB - block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to the left)
> duck second hit and WS A+B, 44K/33A/6AA ~ 53, 54, or 56 dmg
*If you can duck the second hit after blocking the first you get a good amount of time to do this
> duck second hit and 236B, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 66, 67, or 71 dmg (maybe)
*Timing is the same as WS A+B. Sometimes the 22B followup from 66B whiffs on her or only partially connects. 44B is the next most damaging followup and is more reliable.
*Note: If you're ducking before this move hits, the second hit will pass over you head and you can still do any of these counters. 236B is hard to time here so you can opt to use 4A+B from FC instead for a quick 30 dmg and BT mixups
66BA -block the first hit and...
> duck second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs to the left)
> duck second hit and FC 4A+B ~ 30 dmg (BT mixups)
*4A+B from crouch is a nice way to get some free damage off of moves you can't 236B under consistently.
> duck second hit and WS A+B, 44K/33A/6AA ~ 53, 54, or 56 dmg
*If you can duck the second hit after blocking the first you get a good amount of time to do this
*Note: You can do 236B after ducking the second but it's just really hard to time. Therefore it's not recommended.
33_66_99A+B - when you see Setsuka glow with lightning
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 18, 30, or 41 dmg (62 if you get the AAB juggle to WC B:B)
*This move can be WCed to both sides, but you get more time to WC to her right (sword side not umbrella side) since her left side will sometimes lock you in after a moment.
> step and 22_88B~6, AS B+K/B:K (88B~6 if on right side) ~ 59 (and wakeup) or 66 dmg
*Note: Generally with Setsuka you'll be relying more on block punishing than evasive counters, but these should help out a little anyway. The JF counters in particular are useful as long as you remember to wait for Setsuka to flash white before WC-ing to the sword side.
vs. Siegfried
(still needs testing)
vs. Sophitia
*After blocking 4A, you can avoid the mix-up ENTIRELY by stepping or WCing to Sophitia's left (Shield side) - 4A,B can be stepped to both sides, but to avoid confusion step to the shield side always. (2B+G on 1P side, 8B+G on 2P) The resulting counter attacks from this are...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*You can tack on the AAB followup to the JF, but sometimes it whiffs. WC works beautifully on both Sophitia's options, but doesn't do as much damage as stepping and doing 22B combos
> step right and 22B~6, AS B+K/B:K (88B~6 if on right side) ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*For 4A,B sometimes this won't work. It seems to have some sketchy tracking ability that will sometimes catch your step. WC is more reliable in this case.
*Note: If Sophitia uses the held version of 4[A],B, you cannot step or WC the second hit. On the 4[A], A series however, you still can.
66B+K, A, B (236~8_2B, A, B) - block the first two hits and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*WC works to both sides, but if you WC to Sophitia's left (sword side) you get a free back throw.
> step left and 88B~6 AS B+K/B:K (22B~6 if on 2P side) ~ 59 (and wakeup) or 65 dmg
*the last hit tracks step to her right slightly. WC works but quickstep doesn't.
*Note: You can duck the second hit if you block the first and use WS A for left ROs or FC 3BB combos for CH. This is hard to time though if you're not looking for it.
236AA - block the first hit and...
> WL A or WL K combos (both around 55 dmg)
*WL K is the better option here. WL A is usually the expected option and cause the opponent to duck. Also, if Sophitia uses 236B right after the low, WL A will trade with it so you lose the combo, and take more damage. WL K will beat this out for a slight decrease in damage.
236236AA - block the first hit and...
> AS A+K, 2A+B/44B/66A+B ~ 41, 45, or 48 dmg
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*Yet another Namco hitbox glitch, as this horizontal can be stepped to BOTH sides. This is useful mainly for the WC K. If Sophitia uses this with the edge to Talim's right you can get an easy RO with this.
> WL A or WL K combos (both around 55 dmg)
*WL K is the better option here. WL A is usually the expected option, and often causes the opponent to duck. Also, if Sophitia uses 236B right after the low, WL A will trade with it so you lose the combo, and take more damage. WL K will beat this out for a slight decrease in damage.
vs. Taki
*All PO attacks and 8WR after blocking transitions can be beat by 2A or 33A EXCEPT PO 8K and Hover options - 2A has better mixup potential than 1A+B. 33A is harder to buffer but does better damage and ROs left.
*All PO attacks after blocking transitions EXCEPT PO 8K, 8WR, or Hover can be beat by 1A+B or 3B[A] - Timing is key for using CH 3B[A] against PO K since you have to delay it slightly. It's not reliable like 1A+B but if you get the WC B:B JF combo off it it's much better damage. better damage and wake up than 2A/33A
*PO Hover options can be countered with WL options - You can do this on reaction if you haven't conditioned yourself to 2A or 1A+B
4A+B, B (Bombs)- block the first bomb then...
> 9K ~ 21 dmg
*Easiest counter to use and does ok damage. 7K and 8K work also, but they do less damage than 9K.
> 11B ~ 21 dmg (Wind stance mixups)
*This isn't the best option, but it's not bad by any means. 11B is a little hard to buffer in time to jump the second bomb, but I found it easier to do 11B from FC rather than try to do it while standing.
> WL A, FC 3BB, AS A+K/A+B, 2A+B ~ around 50 dmg
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
*Unfortunately you only get a mixup out of this since neither is guaranteed punishment. Still, the rewards for guessing right are great. WL K is more likely to hit, but WL A is safe if it doesn't... decisions, decisions....
> AS~4 A+K, 2A+B ~ 41 dmg
*This is guaranteed and is her best option to handling the bombs. Trick is to hold 4 during the AS jump so you don't go too far over her head and have A+K whiff.
3KK~Wind Roll options - block the first two kicks. when you see her use WR...
> 3BA ~ 30 dmg
*If Taki attacks immediately from WR (WR A,B,K, or throw) 3B will get a CH stun and you know what that means...
> 1A+B, 2K/1K/2A+B ~ 27, 29, or 34 dmg
*Same as 3BA, but you'll get a knockdown whether she attacks immediately or not.
*Note: Remember to wait for WR before you do this. If she does all three kicks, 3BA will punish it anyway on block. However if she does 1 or 2 kicks and stops she can GI it or, if you use 1A+B, punish you after blocking it.
vs. Talim
(still needs testing)
vs. Tira
BT B+K, B - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*This move tracks to Tira's left, so use 8B+K on the 1P side and 2B+K on the 2P side.
*JOLLY STANCE ONLY COUNTERS*
JS 44AB - block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*This move tracks to Tira's right, so use 2B+K on the 1P side and 8B+K on the 2P side.
> step right and 33A ~ 35 dmg (ROs left)
*When doing this and/or 33B6B, remember to step right FIRST and then do the move. for some reason doing 8WR in the 3 direction causes you to still get hit. So step with 2 (8 if on 2P) then do the 33 input.
> step right and 22B~6, AS B+K/B:K (88B~6 if on right side) ~ 57 (and wakeup) or 64 dmg
*Unless you're going for a ring-out, this is the counter to aim for as it does the most guaranteed damage.
JS 44A2A - block the first hit and...
> AS A+B ~ 30 dmg
> AS B+K~6, AS A+B, 2A+B ~ about 60 dmg
*The second one is trickier to pull off, but it's twice the damage so I'd say it's worth it. JS 44AA can also be Windsaulted, but you can only use AS A+K to do it. The only option Tira has to stop AS is JS 44AB which can be stepped or WCed
JS 6AB - block the first hit and...
> WL A, FC 3BB, AS A+K/A+B, 2A+B ~ around 50 dmg
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
*Neither of these two counters are guaranteed at mid/tip range, but it creates a mixup opportunity. If you know the player to block the low more often use WL K, and if they usually block standing WL A. If you're right in Tira's face however, WL K is guaranteed.
*GLOOMY STANCE ONLY COUNTERS*
GS 6AAAAA - block the first two hits and...
> duck after the second hit and WS A ~ 20 dmg (ROs left)
*This one will work no matter how many A's Tira does after the second one.
> duck after the second hit and FC 3BB combos
*This one only works if Tira does the full 6AAAAA. If she does less than that you won't get the CH launch from FC 3BB. The first hit is still guaranteed though.
*Note: This move of Tira's is best used as a punisher, so you may see it if you do a move that the opponent thinks can be punished with this. You may not see it often, but whenever you do just remember that from the third hit onward they're all highs. WS A is your best option here since tech crouch moves don't work.
GS 6BK - block the first hit and...
> WL K, 66B, 2A+B/44B/22B ~ 49, 63, or 67 dmg
*WL K is guaranteed against this since the low has too many recovery frames. Just make sure Tira follows up with the slide before inputting it. This will also work on GS 6bK, but you don't get the first hit to gauge your timing properly.
vs. Voldo
*All Landfish attacks EXCEPT LF B+K, can be avoided with 22_88K - If you were hit or stunned before the LF transition, you won't be able to do this evasion. LF B+K tracks in all directions so you can't step it. I don't see too many Voldos use this move on it's own anyway so it shouldn't be much of a problem.
*All Mantis Crawl attacks EXCEPT MCHT A and MCHT A+B can be countered with WC K - Mantis Crawl 66 can't be countered at all unless near a wall, but WC will evade it regardless. If Voldo goes into Landfish just use 22_88K to get around him.
*All Blind Stance attacks after blocking 6BB/4BA/FC 3B/33_66_99K and 1[K] can be beaten by 44K - Be careful about Voldo's 4A, 22B, and WR [K] transitions. They are much better frames on block, so a few of his faster moves can beat 44K. (22B forces you into crouch on block so WR K might be the better option there.) Even with this setback, Talim's 44K limits what options Voldo has from blind stance and nullifies a good deal of his basic mixups.
*Note: You can use 2K as the universal counter to Blind stance, but 44K gets you more damage and a knockdown, possibly a RO if the edge is to Talim's right side, whereas 2K leaves you at disadvantage on hit and keeps Voldo in BS. Even if Voldo blocks 44K, he can't punish her with any move from front. Sure, Voldo can step 44K to his right (Talim's left) in BS but if he starts doing that, use 44AA, 2A+B instead for even more damage.
3BB - Block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*Talim is one of a few characters with a built-in quickstep in WC. Characters without one of these auto stepping moves can only GI the second hit since it's extremely hard to step normally. This move is safe on block and does nasty soul gauge damage so it's best to use this.[/I
BS 33BB - Block the first hit and...
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 17, 19, 30, or 41 dmg
*You can WC to both sides, but if you try to step you can only step to the left as the move catches Talim's step to the right.
BS 22KK - If you block the first hit then...
> stay in crouch and 6A+B ~ 31 dmg
*If Voldo goes into Mantis Crawl after the second K, you can 236B him instead and follow up with whatever combo you choose.
*Note: Talim's 6B will not be auto GI-ed by Voldo's BS A+B. It's a staple counter for Voldo whenever his transition into BS is blocked. Even if Voldo guards, it'll force him out of BS and chip away at the gauge a bit as well. Voldo can beat Talim's 6B with BS AA or BB however.
vs. Xianghua
*All of Xianghua's followups out of aK or 1kA, A can be completely shutdown with CH 2A on block - Both her aK and 1kA, A are safe if she doesn't follow up, but 2A will keep her in line if she thinks to try anything, (yes even SXS), other than block or GI. This is extremely important to remember when you see either of the two strings, as she has some nice mixups from those.
*All of Xianghua's followups out of 4K can be completely shutdown with CH 2A on block. All EXCEPT low throws can be beat with 1A+B - Xianghua's 2A trades with 1A+B but you deal more damage and still get the CH launch. Besides, how many people other than me even try that 4K to low throw followup anyways...?
*All of Xianghua's SXS transitions on block can be beat by 2A as well - If you block a string or catch Xianghua entering the stance you are given PLENTY of time to 2A her since she can't block. It goes under throws, the high and snuffs the mids. I guess it's safe to say 2A on block is the "X killer" for Talim
6BB - block the first hit and...
> 9K ~ 21 dmg
*7_8_9K works here. 9K does the most damage for some reason but 7K and 8K work just as well for 12 and 16 dmg respectively.
> jump and BB ~ 25 dmg
> jump and 11KA ~ 32 dmg
*This works 90% of the time as while it's slow enough to block, most people won't think to block low after having their own low jumped... unless they have low health maybe. Good mixups if it lands. Use the "8 way jump" method by inputting 11KA while in the air so it comes out as soon as you land
> AS A+K, 2A+B/44B/66A+B ~ 41, 45, or 48 dmg
44AA - block the first hit and...
> 1A+B, 2A+B/1K/2K ~ 34, 29, or 27 dmg
> 3BA ~ 30 dmg (into WC mixups)
*Note: due to blockstun these moves tend to come out slower, but they do work.
2A+K,2K - block the first hit and...
> jump second sweep and BB ~ 25 dmg
> jump second sweep and 6B ~ 21 dmg (BT with +10 adv.)
*Note: you actually don't have to block the first hit. Xianghua's first sweep is telegraphed some, so instead use Talim's 22_88K to evade the first sweep. Xianghua's second sweep cannot track so you'll end up behind her. If you look close enough you'll see a "Launch Me" sign on her back, so go ahead and 236B her. For tips on timing, just recognize the slight pause before the sweep. If you can do that, this can be done on reaction.
2A+K,K - block the first hit and...
> WC K ~ 18 dmg (RO potential)
*Other than GI this is your only option if you block the first sweep
*Note: If you use 22_88K here, unfortunately her cartwheel puts her juuuust out of range for your launch and/or 66B. But for some odd reason 11_77B still reaches.... In fact you can substitute 11B for 22K to TJ the sweep if you like.
vs. Yoda
(still needs testing)
vs. Yoshimitsu
(still needs testing)
vs. Yun-Seong
(still needs testing)
vs. Zasalamel
6A+B, B/6A+B, {B} - block the first two hits and...
> AAB ~ 36 dmg (due to CH)
*Talim's AAB will interrupt both the regular and GB versions for CH damage. Also, even if Zasalamel opts to not use the second B, AA will block punish him. No guessing required. (This works for K as well. Gives less damage, but better frames on hit.)
> WC K/AA/BB/B*B/B:B ~ 16, 19, 30, or 41 dmg (62 w/ AAB followup on JF)
> WC A+K, 11B/2A+B/44B/22B ~ 39, 42, 45, or 49 dmg
*All WC attacks will hit due to Zasalamel's slow recovery. These only work if he commits to the third hit. Another problem is that if he uses the held version, it'll track if you use WC too soon. Useable, but not as practical as AA or K.
22_88KK - block the first hit and...
> duck the second K and WS A ~ 21 dmg ROs left
*This is her best counter option. You could opt to force a mixup instead after ducking for a chance for greater damage, but this is her best guaranteed one.
