Theory Calibur/Go to DEV/Like This Post Thread

lobo

lobo

Luminario
hey guys, this thread is in response to a general question asked in the astaroth Soul Arena. I thought it might be interesting to see what everyone had to say about it. here is the original post:

jak-d-ripr said:
Well I would like to know the basics of being a good soul calibur player, what I should be looking for during a match and all that jazz. I have never played a 3d fighter seriously so i have no idea where to even begin but i figured this subject would be a difficult one to tackle simply through forum posts thus my inquiries about matches with commentary. But any advise you have for me would be gladly accepted, im trying to brush up my game for soul calibur 5 so when that comes i won't be as behind the curve as i was when street fighter 4 dropped.
Click to expand...

my response is to know the safety and unsafety of your character. it isn't necessarily to know the frames...hell after all this time i STILL don't have the frames memorized for my characters, but damn straight i know what can and can't be punished, and how hard, and what i can punish on others with them.

i think that execution, anti-character knowledge, knowledge of multiple characters, and ability to win tournaments all take a second seat to this one idea:

if you are a good player, you know when you SHOULD attack and when you SHOULD block.

it doesn't matter if you can do every JF at 100%, if you are mashing them out at the wrong time you are playing like a scrub. on the contrary if i play someone who does nothing but bb and throw with their character, but uses them properly, i view their gameplay with lots of respect.

well that...and abs. no scrubs have killer abs. it is impossible.

what do you guys think is the one most important thing that separates a good player from the scrubs?
 
To adapted and change styles, and to not set limits to your self. Of course I have more, but these are the most important factors ( to me) that separates a good player from a less skilled one or scrub.
 
Situational awareness. If I'm playing someone who knows what they're doing they should be playing carefully near the edge of a ring/wall, if not just avoiding getting into that situation in the first place. Many uninformed players will complain about ringouts, but the informed will know that if you get ROed it is very likely their fault (Hilde is not their fault).
 
Wow so much feedback, had no idea so many people still played this game much less participated in the forums. Ok so I had no idea about safety/unsafety of characters so I have already learnt more in these 5 minutes than I have in my 10 years of playing soul games. So to take your point a step further, do I have to learn about the safe and unsafe moves of every other character? Because it sounds like the right thing to do, not giving away free damage n all, but on the flip side, that sounds like a ludicrously difficult task what with soul calibur characters each having like 50 moves.

So then I ask, is there like a visual way to tell when a move is unsafe? Like in sf4 I don't know all the frame date, but there are some moves that you can simply look at and tell "that shit ain't safe" so is there something similar in this?
 
Not exactly visual, but for example most 3 hit strings and low attacks are unsafe. The more you play the more you get a feeling of safety and unsafety.
 
there CAN be obvious visual ways, but not in the majority of circumstances because the moves aren't nearly as fast as they are in street fighter. a new player would probably never suspect something like cassandra BK gave her advantage; it's something you'd have to realize or research on your own. most calibur characters have more than 50 moves but most of them aren't entirely applicable. with many characters in high level play, you'll see maybe 20, 30 (if that) different inputs. the majority of a character's movelist is filler or for linking combos, unless you're rocking someone with stances and mix-ups like voldo or yoshimitsu.
 
Ok thats good to know, guess ill just have to do some research and from what your telling me after a bit of play time and research I should be able to tell every now and then when a move is safe. Its a crying shame I asked this during the school semester cause I won't be able to touch the game until april at the earliest.
 
an easy and pretty accurate way to do it is to have a friend try different moves on you while you block them and then mash out an attack right after and see if he can block it. after a while you just get a feeling for safety, as you see certain moves get hit after, and eventually you will learn to block after everything that doesn't hit, so if you do get hit after an attack you will know instantly, "hey...that isn't safe".
 
I promise that this vid will help.

Other than that, welcome. Don't worry if you get your console back late.
I with many other soul fiends will still be around to help with what we can.
 
The difference between a good player and a scrub is obvious.
The difference between a good player and a great one is defense.

Defense defines the skill of a player, because anyone can attack. Anyone can come up with brilliant setups and situations to mind fuck you or attempt to do so. Even scrubs can come up with brilliant gimmicky setups that can surprise you.

I see this a lot online, in fact I also play like that some times. The best players don't rely on setups so much, they simply react and flow during a match. To that they practice they're defense. Even aggressive players can make good defensive decisions. If you're getting caught by Asuras, amy 6B, or straight up evasive gimmicky counters some characters have, your defense needs work.

A lot of the times you lose online, you don't get out played...you fall for a textbook. Every player has one. If you play a couple of matches lose or win you will find a lot of patterns, once you adapt to them you defeat that opponent. If you wonder why Mitsus, Amys, voldos, Ivys and Kilik's dominate online this is why. People will do anything to get out of defending. No one wants to defend so players pick up characters that have tools to counter you in situations where they would normally need to defend.

For me 90% of the time online, once I figure out someone's strat or gimmick, he becomes free. The best players I have ever played gave me many loses until I figured them out and even then they adapted to my counters. Because great players aren't stale or static, their game is fluid and experienced, they make adjustments and progress forward.

Defense.
 
Kind of off topic:I see you posted the question in the Astaroth section.. is he your main character? If so, I would be willing to show you the DOs and DON'Ts of Astaroth. I have always wanted to help someone learn the game, even if I am not the best player out there (by a long shot lol...)

On topic:

What makes a good player stand out from a scrubby player in a 3D fighter is the ability to use your surroundings, guess correctly and punish mistakes. For example..ROs (Ring Outs)

ROs are a way of making you think carefully of your actions and to act according to what you believe he has in mind. It's a mechanic that makes you have to think about your onslaught of attacks and to make sure you defend yourself properly. Most online scrubs will tell you ROs are cheap and should not be used. That is so wrong it hurts to say it...lol. Use every opportunity to make your opponent guess on a 50/50 chance of a RO.

For instance, Nightmares B grab ROs from behind...let's say the round is almost won for the opponent and Nightmare has his back to the edge and is being pressured by the opponent. If Nightmare tries a grab, the opponent who knows Nightmare will think you are trying to ring him out and mash B to break the block. But instead Nightmare hits A grab and gets free damage and puts the opponent at risk of an RO. This is of course assuming the opponent is not using the mash A and B while guarding technique. It's not the best example...but you get the point right? lol

This game can get ALOT more complicated than it seems, but half the things you are able to learn come with experience of playing the game a good amount of time. Practice makes perfect right? lol

That's my two cents for you. Welcome to 8WayRun! Hope to see you online in the future. (As I have yet to convert to Offline :( lol)
 
Online perspective:

What I don't like about scrubs is how they mentally approach the fight :

They have an attack-flowchart that basically doesn't care if you're blocking or not, and sometimes to figure them out (or for laughs) you'd just hold guard and watch them swing away until they reach the last hit of the combo and they hold guard. These flow-charts could be as simple as a couple of hits, but can be very telling because of the way they are being thrown out as a "I don't know what better to do". Another way to look at it is they're inputting commands simply because they're part of a memorized sequence as opposed to applying any deliberation on the many options available, and has severely reduced the game to either guarding, starting their favourite attack sequence, or starting an alternate attack-sequence that'll beat people who defend the first sequence.

When you watch a mitsu do a sequence like this : 6K (blocked) 3A (blocked) 2A (blocked) wrB(blocked) BB (blocked) 1A (hit) sometimes you don't know whether to cry or laugh. Sometimes I can hold my composure and tell myself that they do not know better.
 
Usually it's common belief that ppl who complain or make excuses are usually thought of as scrubs but that isn't entirely true.

Take for example ppl bitch about lag how it hinders their game; though it maybe an excuse it is a valid one.
 
I don't think there's an exact formula for high level play. Mostly I want to say adaptability and defense, but learning the most damaging juggling combos or unshakable stuns is also important. Getting extra damage always helps.

If your playing offline, try to listen to the buttons pushed during a fight. If your opponent is mashing buttons to no end, he's probably a scrub. A decent player knows exactly what he (or she) is doing, and so you would probably only hear one button push per move (on average).

A bad player spams the same moves over and over. A good players uses most or all of the moves. A great player is extremely familiar with all the moves to the point where they can create mind games, they fully understand the value of throwing your opponent off guard.

If someone says for example, that character so and so is easy for them to fight against, it's possible that they have only adapted to the most POPULAR way of playing that character. In my experience, all sophitia's pretty much play the same way. But that could just be because that way of playing as her is popular. It's quite possible someone out there plays sophitia differently from everyone else and still kicks butt for the most part. This is just speculation about sophitia, as I don't even use her, so please take that with a grain of salt. I was just using her as an example to get my point across.
 
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