Raphael's SCV Command List

WuHT said:
I'd like to see Raph's answer to 236236 from omega pyrrha. Her double nemesis step looks to be super crouching yet again, with the nasty B followup. Prep214, 2K, 2B, 1B, deliver us from this evil!
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If he's lucky characters won't be able to crouch under Raphael 2K in this game.

Other news: 44AB is NC. Verify in tha video against Pyrrha (where he's grabbed six times ftl >_>)

On aGIs and AEs:

What we know: 214 GIs Ezio's leap attack
4A+B - autoGIs something; we know nothing else
B+K - very small window at startup, autoevades + attacks against vertical weapon mids
What would be intuitive:
214 - has "Siegfried TC" on startup, impacts all mids (+backstep natural evade)
4A+B - aGIs weapon attacks of a particular sort. (I don't see this impacting lows. Just don't see it)
B+K - auto evades non-low vertical attacks. Getting interrupted by BB makes sense to me.

I've discussed my wishes for 4A+B, I 'd like a Prep transition too; it would solve the forced attack problem (if reGI stayed, which it doesn't have to)
Anything I miss?
 
Mandritti said:
In SC V, with a true evade, and a forced attack.... Stepping aside a vertical unconditionally - no matter how the hitbox works on that side - is a nice feature , but one that might be overshadowed by quickstep, if we confirm quickstep beats all verticals in this system.
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This would have been awesome in SC4, considering the re-tracking of happily spammed moves like BB from sophie or mitsu or Ivy's 1B+K. The option to avoid guard burst meter damage is there, and something worth mentioning. Other than that, I'm hoping that B+K is active on frames faster than quick step (like a GI) making it possible to slip through "locks" from consecutive vertical moves.

However, the automatic attack is sort of counteractive to having a side-step that is supposed to be fail safe. This is observed via yunseong's B+K (which won't fail on the first hit), but the autoattack means raph's A+BA will CH him.

Hopefully there aren't that may BA strings (i'm thinking maxi's 1B~RO A string for example), because getting CH out a properly planned evade really hurts my confidence with using the move. I'm not saying the VE A attack should have aGI frames though, i'd rather VE A to be crazier on block and better damage on hit to justify the risk.
 
Where does raph get his damage output from? I don't see him do many combo's and his new prep is very simplified and not very versatile. guard > all prep options, both lows are easy to see and punishable on block.

combo's I'm seeing:
22b, super
4b(hold)bb,a+b+k
both need meter and do medium dmg.
 
NGKrush said:
Where does raph get his damage output from? I don't see him do many combo's and his new prep is very simplified and not very versatile. guard > all prep options, both lows are easy to see and punishable on block.

combo's I'm seeing:
22b, super
4b(hold)bb,a+b+k
both need meter and do medium dmg.
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1.utoh stated that raph's big money combo by design was his SE B (dont' even need NH),

I'm imagining that it is SE B, 3(B)~prepBB~BE for 1/3 hp.
Wondering if something like SE B into 33KB~BE into CE would be possible. I'm not saying that its easy to set up, but just laying out what we've seen so far.

2.Regarding how to "get damage" against someone who holds guard a lot.

IMO prep was never intended to be a low/mid mixup. Primarily, it's just a combo ender of 3(B) or 4(B). The other options of using it to CH someone unfamiliar with the frames or its evasiveness is a close secondary use. Using it as a 50/50 mid/low guessing is probably the least sophisticated (i'm not saying it won't work) manner.

Your unreactable low pokes aside from 33B don't really do much damage.

In order to squeeze out damage against someone defending, you'll have to try to use the new system mechanics.
Given the ability to earn meter, People gambling wrong with quick step (which is 90% the right thing to do against raph) will result in raph's 22A on CH into his CE which does respectable damage.

Alternatively, you could go for the guard break as i've seen 3(B)~prepBB~BE do insane guard burst damage for a nice combo opportunity.

And lastly, you would also go to run-out-the-clock if you have a life lead for the win. Probably the least liked manner of winning for both parties

It'll be a fun experience to try to discover what kind of nuances Raph users will have to do (as opposed for going for the big hammer 3B~ crazy combo that other chars likely have).
 
WuHT said:
Your unreactable low pokes aside from 33B don't really do much damage.
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Consistent iFC 3B is annoying as hell, and isn't too shabby on the damage or the frames, and there's always the risk of FC 3BB keeping them in check. If it's still in SC5, I think it's definitely worth learning how to do it consistently.
 
Thanks for your replies Wuht and Fendante. I was just looking at various videos and couldn't see his potential.
I have a review copy at my house now and tested some things in training:

22b
-3a (34dmg)
-CE (86-92)
-a+b,a (58) - must be kiss range
-3(b),bb~be (79)
-3(b),ab (62)

i'm actually prefering 3(b) as followup for than CE as it's much easier to do and 79 vs 86dmg is not a lot if you keep 50% meter for other things(like another 22b combo), being able to mix to prep bbb or prep ab for dmg and frameadv is another plus.

33b
-11bb (52) - ch

1k
-a+b,a (56) - ch

33k~be
-ce(108)

4(b)
-bbb (56)

--
1k,1b didn't work for me, could only connect it a couple of times when i locked the dummy between walls.
and prep k~be is mid-high, not sure if you're in block stun long enough, so maybe the high is duckable making it unsafe?

se b seems like a good combo starter too.
 
4a+b seems to gi a attacks only, it follows up with 7 fast hits for 28 dmg. The window is very short imho

3(b)ab is 38dmg but doesnt connect on all distances, bb gives 28 dmg but is consistant

Prep k doesnt connect after 4(b)
 
WuHT said:
Christ my reply overrode mandrittis? That's messed up
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man. why dis happen.
So my post is gone?
Fendante, I did post something that quoted you. If you didn't see it... I won't remember what it was. My answer was to say that there was not proof of what B+K (or other things) evaded. However, we all assume 214 can GI weapon attacks. We would all be very surprised if it GI'd just body attacks. Now the game is nearly here so speculation is of null value.

I am very curious about Prep BB vs. Prep AB. Very very curious.
4A+B has B followup into the KND, right? Is it a copy of the Prep BB(BE) ?

@Heaton: No evidence that it is still in the game. Old WS B is new FC 3B.
That leaves 33B as the only "big deal" low. I am disappointed, but it may be for the best, assuming 33B actually hits people this game.
 
NGKrush said:
4a+b seems to gi a attacks only, it follows up with 7 fast hits for 28 dmg. The window is very short imho
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Guess they really meant "didn't raph very much" when they said it.

3(b)ab is 38dmg but doesnt connect on all distances, bb gives 28 dmg but is consistant
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Makes sense as prepAB is shorter range (but tracks at least to his left). Wow to 3(B)~prepBB being under 30 damage, as that is less than mitsurugi's BB damage. There's gotta be a silver lining somewhere (the frames!)
 
im pretty sure that 4A+B will give good adv on the aGI on followup attack, it might give spacing still...

Being that it GIs A attack: 2As, AAs, Mid As it will be useful because A type moves will player a "bigger" role due to Qstep.

Im also positive that since the game has been play tested by a plethora of people. the frames of the move will possibly match with his block frames.

EX: Raph A (on block) > Opponent retaliates with a 2A due to anticipation of a step > you 4A+B off of the A frames on block in order to fit with the speed of opponents 2A. (there are better examples of this situation)

Just my thoughts....
 
Sorry, my bad: forgot the b followup to 4a+b..
It's 50dmg.

SE b into full 3(b) combo is around 100 on ch

I'm new to high lvl soul cali, but dmg output is a little different everytime :/
Any other things you'd like to know? Helps me learn the character better too :)
 
NGKrush said:
Sorry, my bad: forgot the b followup to 4a+b..
It's 50dmg.

SE b into full 3(b) combo is around 100 on ch

I'm new to high lvl soul cali, but dmg output is a little different everytime :/
Any other things you'd like to know? Helps me learn the character better too :)
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cool, thanks for the info:

22A CH spin stun, see what is guaranteed.

Check BBB/33KB as combo enders to your list above.

I'm still in a little bit of shock to your 3(b)~prepBB news.. so that means that prepBB does like 8 damage after 3B ?
 
So, I played SCV today and checked some things:

- 4A+B aGIs horizontal highs and mids as said before (NGKrush beat me to it XD). The multi stab and B follow up can whiff very easily if you are far from the opponent.
- As suspected, A+K does nothing, no AE for horizontals.
- Prep will AE highs if no command is inputted, going automatically into SE
- Comboing into the CE is very range dependant and whiffs often. It was very frustating at times.

In general, I was struggling with this Raph, trying to get the hang of it. We recorded some videos, but my matches with Raph where terrible and a ABC of "what no to do with Raphael", so nothing to see there.
 
dont' give up gentlemen!

So 44B's AT is completely gone for now eh ? That was a really cool move
 
Thanks for the info man. 22B into 3b series works on normal hit too? I was trying that at NEC and couldn't hit it. This will definitely replace the super for me now.

EDIT: what about off CH 22a? What we got?

Heaton said:
Consistent iFC 3B is annoying as hell, and isn't too shabby on the damage or the frames, and there's always the risk of FC 3BB keeping them in check. If it's still in SC5, I think it's definitely worth learning how to do it consistently.
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FC 3b is his old WS B in this game. I couldn't find the low stab you're thinking of.
 
I'm very sorry for some misinfo again. The game is giving me diff numbers everytime.. Its prob my lack of sc experience.

Let me fix this:
3(b)
-ab (48dmg)
-bb (38)

And then the qs:

22a gives nothing on either nh or ch, big advantage though in tekken terms (where a jab is 10fr) it's about +8/+9.

*No ringout on prep 1+2 or se k
*Se a gives opponant bt on ch
*No gb version of 236b

*33a imho is a good anti step move, but it has short range, about the same as 3a, so shorter than a

*i could not find any way to connect 33k. The execution is too slow to follow 22b or se b or 66b and i have no idea where it could connect otherwise

*not a lot of grounded attacks: 2b whiffs off angle sometimes

*no RO options from prep im afraid.. Until someone finds a good ro combo from se b your only hope is k~be

22b
-3(b)bbb (65)

Se b
-3(b)bbb (80)
 
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