Yoshimitsu Combo & Tech Trap Discussion

Was testing JF 4AAAAA. On neutral guard, the guard break-stagger is forward facing, so if you recover, iMCF>RCC 3B>a:B+K>DNK>2K works on the characters that it should work on as per normal. On neutral hit or CH, the final JF 4A hit will always spin the opponent to a BT position meaning if you do the same thing, his/her head will face you after a:B+K instead and so DNK>2K will not work. Tested like 10 times, same result for all. BUT if you do another JF 4AAAAA after RCC 3B and THEN a:B+K, there's a chance that will correct itself. Provided you're lucky enough to recover again of course :)

Another thing, if 6K connects near a wall and the opponent splats, more often than not he/she will be in BT. That's when you do 2A+BB>66A (BE)>iMCF>3B/8K W!>back throw for guaranteed 170-173 damage on everyone except Voldo, Zwei and Asty, which is more than your standard BnB wall stuff.
 
Frostheart said:
Was testing JF 4AAAAA. On neutral guard, the guard break-stagger is forward facing, so if you recover, iMCF>RCC 3B>a:B+K>DNK>2K works on the characters that it should work on as per normal. On neutral hit or CH, the final JF 4A hit will always spin the opponent to a BT position meaning if you do the same thing, his/her head will face you after a:B+K instead and so DNK>2K will not work.
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Launching a BT opponent and using a:B+K results in them sliding towards you instead of away, and their feet lift up on the other side where DNK will not reach.

However, they're so close to you that all of 2(A+B) FLE 66 will all connect for max damage (more than DNK 2K).

Not the first time I've posted this, actually. Sometimes I wonder how people who don't follow long discussion threads closely find information on these boards...
 
Are the JF series moves safe if you don't get the bliss after (assuming neutral guard)? I don't know if it would be different for eash one, but the same question would apply to each if they are.
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
Are the JF series moves safe if you don't get the bliss after (assuming neutral guard)? I don't know if it would be different for eash one, but the same question would apply to each if they are.
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4A is. You'll fall before they recover.
 
Anyone mess with 1A JFs for wall combos? 3B 2A+BB 4K 1A:A:A:A:A does a little over 100 damage. Thing is, it rarely recovers and I'm not sure if you can't iMCF after or if I just can't time it.
 
Signia said:
Anyone mess with 1A JFs for wall combos? 3B 2A+BB 4K 1A:A:A:A:A does a little over 100 damage. Thing is, it rarely recovers and I'm not sure if you can't iMCF after or if I just can't time it.
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I tried this in a wall combo 3B, 2A+BB, 66B, DNK, 2K.

Also tried 3B, 2A+BB, 4KB, DNK, 2K.

But you also got me curious about that 1A combos seeing as noone uses them.
 
Pocky-Yoshi said:
But you also got me curious about that 1A combos seeing as noone uses them.
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JF 1A series, like the 4A series, is really good in theory, but it's the most difficult because the time between each hit varies, it's not a steady beat. The first two hits are very close together.

Messing it up is more punishing as well, as each hit is not advantage on hit like 4As are.
 
I think I mentioned the 1A thing connecting in a wall combo in a post somewhere before too! Eh it generally isn't worth it regardless of whether you can iMCF after it or not methinks, cos if you've learned the 1A JF series you probably know the 4A JF series, and if you do something like (combo)-JF 1AAAAA-iMCF-RCC 3B-JF 4AAAAA the damage scaling is probably gonna be shit. Plus the recovery part is random, which is the worst issue. 3B-2A+BB-4K-iMCF-RCC 3B-JF 4AAAAA does 20 damage more, and it's guaranteed.

I don't believe you can iMCF after JF 1As because he takes a longer time to recover but this is speculation cos I'm unable to perform it :( I can occasionally get JF FC 1KKKKK in training though, and iMCF just doesn't connect here either because I suck or the recovery's too slow.
 
Signia said:
JF 1A series, like the 4A series, is really good in theory, but it's the most difficult because the time between each hit varies, it's not a steady beat. The first two hits are very close together.

Messing it up is more punishing as well, as each hit is not advantage on hit like 4As are.
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Darn, gotta learn JF1AAA. I'm really curious on the wall juice it may provide.
 
6K>W!>2A+BB>6K>W!>66A (BE)>iMCF>RCC 3B>(JF) 4AAAAA>a:B+K>2[A+B]>66
212 damage, 0.5 meter, no CH. That's slightly more than doing CE after iMCF for 1.5 meter total. If JF 4AAAAA fails to recover, 185 damage.

Also, you know that some moves which stun beforehand will cause other moves in the same combo not to stun, like doing 22K at the start of a wall combo before 2A+BB/1B+K will cause the 2A+BB stun to disappear? For most moves that stun e.g. 22K, (CH) 44bB, (CH) a:B+K it means that you can't use 2A+BB as a filler, but for neutral A+B>3B>W!>(...), the 2A+BB stun works and so does iMCF stun but the 66A (BE) stun doesn't. But if it's (CH) A+B>3B>W!>(...), the 2A+BB stun doesn't work but the 66A (BE) one does. Weird.

<edit> this also happens for SDGF K, K (non-JF success version area stun)>iMCF>3B>W!>2A+BB>(...)

3Ab [BE] works in most combos, but if the combo is too "long" the final hit of the BE can be blocked as it suddenly stops being an NCC. Like DGF B>3B>W!>2A+BB>DNK>W!>3Ab [BE]>(...) the BE part is not part of the combo. Not sure how this mechanic works but this happens for all characters. Also, you can't JF 4AAAAA after 3Ab [BE] because the final hit hits too far.

For 22B, if you a:B+K early the person will be smacked onto the floor leg-first and you can do DNK>2K if possible. If you a:B+K late the person will lie head-first and you get 2[A+B]>66. If the person is backwards-facing the process reverses. So delaying the a:B+K might be a good idea if you want guaranteed damage over deathcopter trap...
 
Note that Yoshimitsu's life steal (6[A]) gives you 29 life, but will always gives your opponent 1/8 meter.
My favorite wall hit is FLE~6A+B FLE~B+K FLE~B (W!).
Also, the 1A JF series only does about 2-5 less damage then the 4A JF series and has all the same launch properties.
CE on relaunch only does about 20 dmg but can give that little extra distence to push the opponent off the ledge.
2x[...] means 2x [5x 1A (JF)~BLISS] and can always be removed from a combo.
All these combos obviously do alot more damage if you use CE, 66B BE, or 3Ab BE or tech catch.

Cool wall combos (meter-less) you can do are:
W! 6[A] iMCF 3B (W!) 1B+K 6[A] aB+K
W! 6[A] iMCF 3B (W!) 2A+BB 3B+K 2x[...] aB+K DNK 2K
W! 2A+BB DNK (W!) 6[A] iMCF RCC 3B 2x[...] aB+K DNK 2K

The 1A JF series into iMCF might work on V; it seems to work on IV.
Wall combos (meter-less) you could do if this were true:
W! 2A+BB 5x 1A (JF) iMCF RCC 3B (W!) 3B+K 2x[...] aB+K DNK 2K
W! 2A+BB 5x 1A (JF) iMCF 3B (W!) 3B+K 2x[...] aB+K DNK 2K

I'm curious to know if anyone's come up with a way to tie in suicide to wall combos?
Also, is there any way to connect two 6[A]'s without a wall; I like stealling life?
 
1K combos into JF series for a long reverse ringout, idk if anyone posted that already.

DOCTORSTUPID said:
Cool wall combos (meter-less) you can do are:
W! 6[A] iMCF 3B (W!) 1B+K 6[A] aB+K
W! 6[A] iMCF 3B (W!) 2A+BB 3B+K 2x[...] aB+K DNK 2K
W! 2A+BB DNK (W!) 6[A] iMCF RCC 3B 2x[...] aB+K DNK 2K

The 1A JF series into iMCF might work on V; it seems to work on IV.
Wall combos (meter-less) you could do if this were true:
W! 2A+BB 5x 1A (JF) iMCF RCC 3B (W!) 3B+K 2x[...] aB+K DNK 2K
W! 2A+BB 5x 1A (JF) iMCF 3B (W!) 3B+K 2x[...] aB+K DNK 2K

I'm curious to know if anyone's come up with a way to tie in suicide to wall combos?
Also, is there any way to connect two 6[A]'s without a wall; I like stealling life?
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iMCF stuns for you after comboing into it from 4(A)? I just get it NH for +10 damage... does 4(A) have to be CH? If so, are you making sure CH settings is off when you do the MCF?

JF 1A series in a juggle is ACable it seems. And I haven't been able to land iMCF after it... I swear the BLISS-rate is much lower than JF 4As

omfgggg it's like 1 in 10. I hit JF series 10 in a row, he recovers once and I'm so surprised I shank the iMCF.

Ok I'm convinced iMCF is not possible. You do however get an UB trap. Deathcopter catches all sides and 66A+B has to be teched right to escape. FC 1KKKKK seems to connect too... could we be seeing double JF combos?
 
FC 1KKKKK JF catches side-rolling, and always recovers to Bliss. You can use it if people try rolling after 4B and 3B+K. Works very well..
 
I think your talking about the life steal throw (6[A]), if so, iMCF only does STN if 6[A] is on CH, what I said still applies since you have the wall stun, you can connect the RCC 3B after the iMCF because your opponent remains close (due to the wall). Watch the combo video by Red Djinn from when SCV first came out to get the timing of iMCF after 6[A].
CE and 5x 1A (JF) on an airborne opponent, like 5x 4A (JF), cannot be AC, you must wait until your opponent is low enough to start inputting the command.

It doesn't matter if you get BLISS from any JF series if you LNC 5x 4A (JF), this does about the same damage as any other hit confirmable juggle away from the wall, but this can also continue the juggle for more damage, and has the added bonus of some major RO distance. On whiff I'd rather just do iMCF than 5x 4A (JF) because iMCF lands more consistent damage, when farther away I do 22_88A+B iMCF.

5x FC~1K (JF) is only hit confirmable on an opponent in cripple STN, you do have the added advantage that your opponent cannot getup to low guard, so you are guaranteed the first couple on hits if your trying to tech catch, but your opponent can guard half way through, regardless of hit or CH, but the last hit does do KND and RO.
 
Some setups using JF 4AAAAA, some which you guys have speculated already. 200+ damage with 0.5 meter ftw! Sorry, my execution is not at a level where I can comfortably churn out JF 1AAAAA or FC 1KKKKK, so they aren't included :(


You can actually JF 4AAAAA after a 6K wall splat sometimes, if you care not for the 1AAAAA. And yes, iMCF stuns from 6[A], tested it some times ago, though it's pretty obvious when you're gonna do that because you give the opponent a nice, conspicuous slap across the cheek before facepalming him.
 
Frostheart said:
Some setups using JF 4AAAAA, some which you guys have speculated already. 200+ damage with 0.5 meter ftw! Sorry, my execution is not at a level where I can comfortably churn out JF 1AAAAA or FC 1KKKKK, so they aren't included :(


You can actually JF 4AAAAA after a 6K wall splat sometimes, if you care not for the 1AAAAA. And yes, iMCF stuns from 6[A], tested it some times ago, though it's pretty obvious when you're gonna do that because you give the opponent a nice, conspicuous slap across the cheek before facepalming him.
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Gotta love them doom wall combos from half a bar.
 
Hi, I was just reading the locked combo thread here in the Yoshi forums, and this is a quote:


66A+B, 3B

33A+B
- iMCF combos
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Is this correct? I thought 66A+B and 33A+B are the same move (Crying spirit sword). Thanks

Edit: In particular, what are the possible follows-up to Crying spirit sword? Thanks.
 
cd_Andy said:
Is this correct? I thought 66A+B and 33A+B are the same move (Crying spirit sword). Thanks

Edit: In particular, what are the possible follows-up to Crying spirit sword? Thanks.
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They both are the same move, but 33A+B hits the opponent to where Yoshi is slighty on a different axis so that stun allows to iMCF combo easily.

66A+B only allows you to get a 3B off it, once the opponent lands.

Try it out and you'll see what I'm saying.
 
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