Atlanta matches

sWoRD_LoRD

sWoRD_LoRD

[09] Warrior
We didn't record much and there were a few no shows that were supposed to come but here's what we got.

it's funny how people loved to bitch about sc3 X but they don't bitch about sc4 Amy even though she's a million times better. she shouldn't have both 1A and 2B+K, they should patch and take 2B+K from her movelist, or at least 1A so that you can step 2B+K easier. she's the only character I can't turtle defensively, and then when I do attack, about anything I do is unsafe because Amy has a counter for it, so she puts you in a mixup 100% of the time. She's almost as bad as Hilde and Algol, just nobody is more annoying than Algol.

On Maxi, let me impart yall with a bit of knowledge cause I wasn't doing it in this video. When Maxi does his auto-GI move into mixup, you can just GI his follow-up, even if he actually GI's your attack with it. He can do autoGI, K and beat that out, and I think that move gives advantage, but R3DD doesn't use that move (he will against me once I start doing it every time though). If he autoGI's your attack, I wanna say the K is guaranteed tho.

Sorbo vs. ATL_R3DD

sWoRD vs. ATL_R3DD

Shinji (Amy) vs. Sorbo (Amy)

sWoRD (Lizardman) vs. Shinji (Amy)
sWoRD (Taki) vs. Shinji (Algol)
sWoRD (Raphael) vs. Shinji (Kilik)
sWoRD (Yoshi) vs. Shinji (Xianghua)
sWoRD (Astaroth) vs. Shinji (Siegfried)

rest are here, I'll upload the rest on here individually in a bit....
http://www.youtube.com/user/hammertlme

Me and Shinji will prolly make a couple more vids today and add them. I wanna put my Raphael and my comboless just frameless Yoshi (just started using him) on youtube.
edit: me vs. Shinji vids are up...
 
Decent matches. But sword there is noooooooo way amy is better than sc3 X. Most amy can do is put you in a mixup most of the time. Ok thats good, but guess right when shes going to go low, she gets punished, not to mention shes pretty steppable.

X had SAFE 1a which did about 30 damage AND it was -1 or 2 on block, so really she had mixups on BLOCK. Had decent range too. 3A had lots of range. And BOTH of these lows covered step pretty well, AND they had good advantage on hit. She had 66a+b which can be canceled and went around at least 80-90% of the moves in the game. Her 2 5 B launcher which was safe for the most part dealt at least 70 damage, around 80 on counter hit. And she had more stuff I don't even wanna get into.
 
In my eyes Amy is more broken than SC3 X b/c Amy basic mechanics are imbalanced, SC3 X was overpowered but not broken. In SC4 there are only two broken characters Amy and Hilde
 
X's 1A is tough to block on reaction but not impossible. X's 3A is a hell of a lot easier to punish than Amy's 2B+K and is a hell of a lot easier to block cause of speed and because it's one of her longest reaching moves and she'll use it at range (I baited 3A). 2B+K also leads to a good bit more damage. sc3 X doesn't have lockdown speed against every character and can't really do moves on block into other moves and autoGIs on the same level. Sc3 X's 66A+B is comparable to Amy's 4A (4A isn't nearly as good obviously, but it's comparable). Mitsu has always been the mixup king, but Amy's mixups crush his and everybody elses and her lows are hard to impossible for alot of characters to punish. Bottom line, if you know what you're doing, you can stand around and block X all day(
), but you're screwed against Amy. Thuggish you will see in a year or so when you've reached top performance with the bitch.
 
Haha, I post that and just lost to Kingusha's Amy 1-10 , omg. Thugish if you want I'll post up some of those vids)

Amy 1A is shit though.
 
Let me get this straight. Sword Lord just told Thugish Pond "Thuggish you will see in a year or so when you've reached top performance with the bitch (Amy). "
 
i don't think thuggish used amy in sc3, pretty much nobody did. she's still a pretty new character for a lot of folks. maybe thuggish has already maxed out her potential, i wouldn't really know, haven't seen any recent vids or anything. but he probably has some improvement left in his Amy game before we see extreme levels of bullshit. i don't main Amy and don't even use her that much, so Thuggish will get on that level faster.
 
I didn't pay attention to sword lord saying Amy is broken because he likes to talk a lot (...)

On the other hand, since what you write feels always "right on spot" I value your opinion very much Belial. I am very interested in why you feel that Amy is broken compared to other top characters. Is it because of the 50/50 ?

Here is a translation about what has been said on FR forum this week :

Other characters I know about have a "real" 50/50 guess (mid/low that knocks down on neutral in both cases) without requiring stance shifting
- Mitsurugi (2KB)
- Yoshimitsu (iFC3K)

From stance only :
Voldo
- i21 BS1A is unblockable on reaction by every person I've met except 2-3 (eg. FR player Pantocrator)
- MCHT 66/A+K
I won't include CR B because even if it knocks down, he's at -11 on hit.

Siegfried can also do some stuff from stance, very unsafe though (RSH K / RSH B)

I'm not sure about Setsuka's 1AAA
Never seen anybody block it on reaction and it's i21. If some people can block it, it must be really rare, and the people that I've seen block Voldo's BS1A on reaction don't block 1AAA

Maxi can do some stuff such as RO A[K] (mid) / RO A BL KK (low) with good timing. He is weak for other reasons...

I believe that other knockdown lows are blockable consistently with some training on a lagless TV set since I've seen several FR players do it (Ivy SW22K, Lizardman 1K, Tira 88K, ...)
 
sWoRD_LoRD said:
X's 1A is tough to block on reaction but not impossible. X's 3A is a hell of a lot easier to punish than Amy's 2B+K and is a hell of a lot easier to block cause of speed and because it's one of her longest reaching moves and she'll use it at range (I baited 3A). 2B+K also leads to a good bit more damage. sc3 X doesn't have lockdown speed against every character and can't really do moves on block into other moves and autoGIs on the same level. Sc3 X's 66A+B is comparable to Amy's 4A (4A isn't nearly as good obviously, but it's comparable). Mitsu has always been the mixup king, but Amy's mixups crush his and everybody elses and her lows are hard to impossible for alot of characters to punish. Bottom line, if you know what you're doing, you can stand around and block X all day(
), but you're screwed against Amy. Thuggish you will see in a year or so when you've reached top performance with the bitch.
Click to expand...

This whole post is full of fail. Your bad example of blocking X all day has an X player that did 2 lows the entire first match. OF COURSE YOU WEREN'T MIXED UP, that was the player not the character though. The thing about X in 3 is she never lost momentum even on - frames. She had good evasion moves like 8k, 44b, and 66a+b. Amy's evasion moves are jokes, her 44b barely avoids anything, and her 4a does have uses but it is nothing compared to 66a+b. 66A+B could be canceled, was a mid, teleported around things and 4a is a high, can't be canceled, and avoids some things. How can these be compared? I know you beat Thugish in sc3, congrats. But that still doesn't mean Thugish didn't completely dominate the SC3 scene.
 
Sorry folks, Thugish really hasnt unlocked even half Amy potential and he knows it himself. On the other hand, scrublord cant be correct so we face a dilemma here. lets ban him so we can go on with a civilized discussion

tresto: no other char has such a good pay off KD, to me she's almost as broken as hilde. Not just that, she has awesome tools for KD.
against all that chars you named if you guess correctly at least one option you get lots of damage and even if they are sucessful their wake ups will end at some point AND are interruptible. So the mix up is first they have to set it up so you fear to interrupt, THEN they can mix up. Amy is not like that. Unfortunately everybodys experience is limited to whom they have played, but I can tell you RTD and Kayane saw MY amy play, and they were very surprised at how good it was and I dont even use amy, I just copy some edge and kingusha patterns. If you were to play them, who really use her 50/50 to the max , you'd realize how hopeless and retarded this character is.
 
tresto said:
Other characters I know about have a "real" 50/50 guess (mid/low that knocks down on neutral in both cases) without requiring stance shifting
- Mitsurugi (2KB)
- Yoshimitsu (iFC3K)

From stance only :
Voldo
- i21 BS1A is unblockable on reaction by every person I've met except 2-3 (eg. FR player Pantocrator)

Siegfried can also do some stuff from stance, very unsafe though (RSH K / RSH B)
I'm not sure about Setsuka's 1AAA
Never seen anybody block it on reaction and it's i21. If some people can block it, it must be really rare, and the people that I've seen block Voldo's BS1A on reaction don't block 1AAA
Maxi can do some stuff such as RO A[K] (mid) / RO A BL KK (low) with good timing. He is weak for other reasons...
I believe that other knockdown lows are blockable consistently with some training on a lagless TV set since I've seen several FR players do it (Ivy SW22K, Lizardman 1K, Tira 88K, ...)
Click to expand...
That Yoshi move is easy to block cause you see it comin most of the time.
Mitsu 2K isn't as good as it was in sc3
If that Voldo move you're talking about is the low where he's turned around and puts his hands between his legs, and there is a second hit that can be done as a string, that move is pretty easy to block on reaction.
Setsuka 1AAA is blockable somewhat on reaction but somewhat not; it has to be mixed with B+K cause they are deceptive when used together (the hint that tells you to block low is also in B+K).
Siegfried stance mixup can be GI'd on reaction if you're focused enough
I don't understand Maxi notations.......but everything he has that isn't blockable on reaction does no damage
Ivy's sweep kick is easy to block on reaction. Lizardman's 1K is hard to block on reaction 100% but it's sorta blockable on reaction (maybe someone can do it 100%).
These moves don't compare to Amy 1A or 2B+K. Amy 2A+B is blockable on reaction, but that move added to what she already has, is a pain in the ass too.
I compared 66A+B to Amy 4A cause they're used at similar times in gameplay and step similar shit.
ShadowG probably didn't do a whole lot of lows because it was risky to do 2K or 3A (I was baiting 3A) so there isn't much left but 1A (by the time I fought Thuggish I realized Sophie could pretty much nullify the advantage that 1A gave with B+K).
Thuggish just proved to annoy the shit out of me by doing a whole lot of 85B out of range and there was nothing I could do to punish the whiffs. But X's mixups are nothing amazing is the point. She was the best character in sc3 no doubt, but I never feared X. I've feared Amy since the game came out.
Vids of me vs. Shinji are up now, I don't feel like putting them all up separately right now, just go to the main page.

Lizardman vs. Amy
 
I would love to get in on this arguement but I never played SC3 2 or 1 for that matter....

Sword I'll help separate the vidz

That Liz vs Amy is a rape scene, I still can't fight Liz yet. I still get raped by edge master Liz (CPU)
 
So far I haven't seen anyone block iFC 3K on reaction 100% of the time when used properly. I have played against people who are able to twitch duck it on anticipation pretty reliably, though. That being said, against an experience opponent Yoshi isn't a 50/50 character and iFC 3K is far from invisible.
 
iFC = ?

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to 10 characters.

There HAPPY!??
 
FC is full crouch. i before moves means instant (such as iMCF or iGDR)
iFC means going into full crouch instantly, with [G]2. Basically do to iFC 3K you are going to press guard, do a 2-3 motion (maintaining direction 3), release guard and press K.

I agree about Yoshimitsu not being a 50/50 mid/low based character. ie. it is not the most efficient way to play him. This would be because the mids that have a similar startup to iFC3K aren't very damaging.

But I believe he can still do it. And that if it's mixed with the right moves (33K?), iFC3K becomes just guessing.
Human reaction time to a visual stimulus is considered to be arround 200ms (13 frames)
FC3K is at best 20 frames (i19 +1 extra frame to go to FC)
So all you have to do is find a mid that looks like FC3K during the first 7 frames.

This discussion leads to the real "50/50 mid/low characters" remaining Amy and Mitsu. Some others have a possibility to mixup mid/low, but not base their game on it.
 
Both characters are about as broken as the other. It's a bit interesting that some people have told me they'd rather play SC3 Xianghua over SC4 Amy.
 
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