Cervantes Matchup: Discussion

bA is ass unless the opponent doesn't know how to deal with it. And you can't mention high level play and then talk about people doing scrubby shit. It just doesn't work that way. ,
 
I am actually laughing a lot about this.

Hates : Can you tell again that duck/stand/reaction thing about Cervantes (and I suppose other characters) ?
 
I remember this French tournament where Kira spammed bA against Keev's aPat...and it worked. Don't get me wrong, either. Keev is hands down the best French player...so it's pretty funny that you come in here talking about a shitty move like it's good.
 
LostProvidence said:
I remember this French tournament where Kira spammed bA against Keev's aPat...and it worked. Don't get me wrong, either. Keev is hands down the best French player...so it's pretty funny that you come in here talking about a shitty move like it's good.
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Well this was just after Keev switched to Alpha, so he probably didnt know how to react, also there are not many good counters to this. Still its a good move, even ShenChan said it. Guy got EVO 2nd remember?

Well its obvious its pointless from here on to discuss any further.
 
Him getting second at Evo doesn't make it any less ass. Also, aPat punishes that move really well...though it didn't matter because Keev kept attacking into the agi window of it with 33b...which reeks of ignorance of the attack and not aPat as every 33b attempt could've easily been converted into 33a for CH plus whatever the fuck

As stated differently earlier, you can't judge the power of a move adequately when your opponents don't know how to deal with it.
 
I like Cervy, and Drama.

Just going to let everyone know that basically EVERY MOVE IS ASS in this game.

However, if your opponent is not used to a certain move, or perhaps knows about it but is not accustomed to reacting/punishing to it, ASS moves become the BEST move, not because of lack of knowledge, but you because you used the move in a way they wouldn't be prepared for it.

Mental Training > All
 
It's a debate between deaf people.

bA is clearly not bad although it can get punished, but that's like a GI or whatever. bA's real value is not in its aGI properties or whatever, it's that it makes people hesitate or change their game just like ShenChan said.

Pyrrha has tools to counter, pressure and punish Cervantes efficiently and bA will not prevent them all the time, nor most of the time.

Can we go back to Cervantes vs Pyrrha instead of that bA debate ?
 
LostProvidence said:
Him getting second at Evo doesn't make it any less ass. Also, aPat punishes that move really well...though it didn't matter because Keev kept attacking into the agi window of it with 33b...which reeks of ignorance of the attack and not aPat as every 33b attempt could've easily been converted into 33a for CH plus whatever the fuck

As stated differently earlier, you can't judge the power of a move adequately when your opponents don't know how to deal with it.
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If the threat of bA is enough to stop an Alpha player from using 33B on mid-max range in an open situation then it already served its purpose. Its not like Keev did 33B once he has seen Kira do bA, its a simultanous input which resulted in the 33Bs getting countered since it impacts later into the bA GI window.

So if we come back to the Cervy-P matchup, what exactly are the moves Cervy has to use which give her a free 236B? I dont think there is a single one. AA punishment is the only punishment she can have on most moves.
 
Summary of what we've learnt so far: Americas think Europe is shit. Singapore think all of us are shit.

Can you show us videos of bA's assness please? Do you know how small the CH window is btw, I would love to see the Pyrhha 4A CH punishes that you guys are pulling off.

docvizzo said:
So if we come back to the Cervy-P matchup, what exactly are the moves Cervy has to use which give her a free 236B? I dont think there is a single one. AA punishment is the only punishment she can have on most moves.
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Only one worth mentioning is 4B+K (since no once uses 3A), which is still worth using imo. Also Pyrrha can punish 66b with stab, she just can't get the JF depending on range and can only get a single A punish on Cervy's WR B because of pushback.
 
You could point to that move being absent from the majority of tournament vids.easily. If you folks think the move is good, then fine but...yeah...you usually see a good number of people actually using 'good' attacks...especially against good players..so...
 
docvizzo said:
If the threat of bA is enough to stop an Alpha player from using 33B on mid-max range in an open situation then it already served its purpose. Its not like Keev did 33B once he has seen Kira do bA, its a simultanous input which resulted in the 33Bs getting countered since it impacts later into the bA GI window.

So if we come back to the Cervy-P matchup, what exactly are the moves Cervy has to use which give her a free 236B? I dont think there is a single one. AA punishment is the only punishment she can have on most moves.
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Stab Punishment: Ducked Grabs, 3A, 1AB, aB, 4aBB, WR AB, B, BBB, 6BB, 4BK, 6K, 2K, 1K, 3A+B, WR A+B, 2B+K, 4B+K, 9B+K, 9(B+K), 22AA, 66B, 11B, 44B, 11K, 6B BE, DC B, iGDR, DC K

CE Punishment: BB, 3B, 1B, 4B, and everything listed above.

AA Punishment: 6B, 1BB, WR B, 7_8_9B, 4KK, WR K, 66A, 33A, 22B, 44A+B (but who gives a fuck. It's a free 4B on sidestep)

The list of what she can't punish is much much shorter.
 
Thank you for that very nice listing.
Can you do that for what she can't punish too? Which is "much much shorter"? And now go straight to the move you need to use with him? hahaha

What Docvizzo meant (but you knew that, didn't you?) is that you don't need to use that many unsafe moves, and the move you do need are not easily blocked (1AB for instance). Yes, you have to use some. Yes, you will be punished if Pyrrha guesses right. And yes, you will be rewarded if you guess right. But overall? Cervantes does't need that many TAS B punished moves.
 
Maxou said:
Thank you for that very nice listing.
Can you do that for what she can't punish too? Which is "much much shorter"? And now go straight to the move you need to use with him? hahaha

What Docvizzo meant (but you knew that, didn't you?) is that you don't need to use that many unsafe moves, and the move you do need are not easily blocked (1AB for instance). Yes, you have to use some. Yes, you will be punished if Pyrrha guesses right. And yes, you will be rewarded if you guess right. But overall? Cervantes does't need that many TAS B punished moves.
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Why would I list what she can't punish when I just listed what she can? It's not that hard to figure out and your smart ass comments aren't needed. I know what Doc Vizzo meant and I don't need you to try and explain it to me. My point this entire time has been that Cervy takes much more risk than Pyrrha does. If you have something to actually add into the discussion other than reiterating something that DocVizzo stated and being passively aggressive about stupid shit I'd like to see it. Otherwise don't bother posting if all you're going to do is kick up dust.
 
I wasn't agressive no need to get all defensive on me, I just pointed flaws in your reasoning: oh yeah that list OBVIOUSLY proves your point. Thank you man, you really blew our mind with that list, we didn't know that at all :'(

On a serious note : this is useless. Listing unsafe moves is not constructive at all, what you SHOULD list, is what he needs to use and what he should use....

This just has no purpose at all.

Although man, your wounded ego aside (how dare I suggest that the unsafe move list was useless? Okay, now I am beggining to be agressive, see the difference?), I do agree with you here, Pyrrha can attack Cervantes with much less risks. But I also agree with Docvizzo here, Cervantes will get much more reward than Pyrrha does on a successful guess.
 
CapnCrump said:
Stab Punishment: Ducked Grabs, 3A, 1AB, aB, 4aBB, WR AB, B, BBB, 6BB, 4BK, 6K, 2K, 1K, 3A+B, WR A+B, 2B+K, 4B+K, 9B+K, 9(B+K), 22AA, 66B, 11B, 44B, 11K, 6B BE, DC B, iGDR, DC K
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Congratulations on making a list of Cervys worst moves which no one would ever use in any matchup. Thats a good list for pointing out he has a lot of shit moves but adds 0/10 value to this discussion.

Also 9[B+K] is a blockstun if Cervy jumps behind his opponent.

Now if you list all the moves she cant punish with 236B we will actually get a list of his best moves. thx.
 
docvizzo said:
Congratulations on making a list of Cervys worst moves which no one would ever use in any matchup. Thats a good list for pointing out he has a lot of shit moves but adds 0/10 value to this discussion.

Also 9[B+K] is a blockstun if Cervy jumps behind his opponent.

Now if you list all the moves she cant punish with 236B we will actually get a list of his best moves. thx.
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So aB, 1AB, Grabs, 2K, 66B and iGDR are shit moves? That's news to me.
 
Doesn't Xephukai have videos of his Matches with Hates? Hates is far from a weak player and I highly doubt that Xeph is so far ahead of Him that he goes 4-1 against him everytime he uses Cervy
 
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