Conflict: Changing Too Much vs. Changing Too Little

[Marginal]

I both like and dislike the mechanics of SCV.

For one thing, the game is deeper now with meter mechanics and JG is nice because it rewards good reads and timing, despite the bugs mentioned above.

On the other hand, with simpler mechanics I have less distractions and a more straight forward playstyle.

As a whole, the game should return to simpler mechanics if they want to get more newcomers. I'm not just talking about people who play other fighters, I'm talking about people who've never got into fighters at all and SC suddenly looks attractive because the game follows the motto: easy to pick up and hard to master.

Let's face it, SCV's mechanics are complex and daunting for people who don't play fighters.

SCV's direction may have made it a better game competitively, but it hurt the overall sales because the vast majority of players are not competitive and don't hold the same gaming philosophies as elite players do. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

[Marginal]

I both like and dislike the mechanics of SCV.

For one thing, the game is deeper now with meter mechanics and JG is nice because it rewards good reads and timing, despite the bugs mentioned above.

On the other hand, with simpler mechanics I have less distractions and a more straight forward playstyle.

The game hasn't really gotten all that more complex. It's actually streamlined.

As a whole, the game should return to simpler mechanics if they want to get more newcomers. I'm not just talking about people who play other fighters, I'm talking about people who've never got into fighters at all and SC suddenly looks attractive because the game follows the motto: easy to pick up and hard to master.

People who haven't gotten into fighters at all are always going to have a learning curve regardless of the game. Just learning basic concepts like spacing and movement are core things that can't be avoided. Most games have a learning curve so I must disagree with myself.

Simplified execution to reduce entry barriers? We honestly already have that to a degree. Would one button CE's really help a beginner not get wrecked? Nope.

Let's face it, SCV's mechanics are complex and daunting for people who don't play fighters.

Name on fighting game that's not complex and daunting for beginners. Even Rising Thunder is rough for beginners.

SCV's direction may have made it a better game competitively, but it hurt the overall sales because the vast majority of players are not competitive and don't hold the same gaming philosophies as elite players do. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

The sales weren't really hurt. It outsold TTT2. It just got bad reviews.

Had they released the game with a full story mode, those reviews wouldn't have been bad. It wasn't a mechanics issue. Namco really needs to understand this rather than trying to reinvent the wheel with crap like Lost Swords.

 

[Alex.J]

The game hasn't really gotten all that more complex. It's actually streamlined.

People who haven't gotten into fighters at all are always going to have a learning curve regardless of the game. Just learning basic concepts like spacing and movement are core things that can't be avoided. Most games have a learning curve so I must disagree with myself.

Simplified execution to reduce entry barriers? We honestly already have that to a degree. Would one button CE's really help a beginner not get wrecked? Nope.

Name on ighting game that's not complex and daunting for beginners. Even Rising Thunder is rough for beginners.


The sales weren't really hurt. It outsold TTT2. It just got bad reviews.

Had they released the game with a full story mode, those reviews wouldn't have been bad. It wasn't a mechanics issue. Namco really needs to understand this rather than trying to reinvent the wheel with crap like Lost Swords.

Marginal, I disagree with you disagreeing with yourself. But I also agree to disagree with my disagreement.

 

[SC_Yin]

Also, screw the invincibility frames for CE.

You really don´t know shit about the game do you ?

 

[darkwings13]

You really don´t know shit about the game do you ?

You really dont know how to explain shit then. All i get from that is either u like it for some reason or you dont think it exists. Or that certain ones like Zwei doesnt count since his slow ass CE takes 22 frames and you only dare use it after launching the opponent with 66A+B, 1K BE, etc.

Ive never liked CE, only liked BE. And so far no one has provided enough reasons to say why CE was an improved mechanic. Some whiffs or is messed up like Aeon and Siggy. Others sucks. Others is really good like A.pat. And yea, i dislike invincibilty frames. Enlighten me like signia and i can actually appreciate it.

 

[HydroJames]

Why exactly should Critical Edge be disliked?

 

[Soul]

I don't mind the CE system.
I just hope they make it more difficult to execute & uniquely different for every character if they plan on bringing it back for SC6. Just like when it was first introduced in Soul Edge/Blade.

 

[HydroJames]

I don't mind the CE system.
I just hope they make it more difficult to execute & uniquely different for every character if they plan on bringing it back for SC6. Just like when it was first introduced in Soul Edge/Blade.

Isn't for the best that they are easy to do so that can be used mid-combo?

 

[Soul]

Isn't for the best that they are easy to do so that can be used mid-combo?

I like it more challenging :P

 

[darkwings13]

Why exactly should Critical Edge be disliked?

Unlike CF, where it's one hit KO, CE in SCV vary in terms of balance and some are janky and doesn't work properly at times. Hilde CE at walls for example, has reduced damage.

One can argue that some chars are better are guard crushing in SCIV (like Mina) but CF's were still so rare that this mitigates the point. A personal opinion is that there was alot of hype whenever someone did manage to land CF. I fondly refer to it as RO's sister, since ppl sometimes get salty for losing to it but most of the time everyone on both side is impressed when it's landed.

Invincibility frames. I ate too many yolo CE online.

I do appreciate Nightmare/Damp CE, as they're GI based and require recognizing the opponent's patterns.

 

[HydroJames]

I like it more challenging :P

The challenge lies in battling your opponent, not your controls. Besides, higher execution barriers affect both players equally and would create a wider gap between greater and lesser skilled players.

Invincibility frames. I ate too many yolo CE online

You should try blocking. Critical Edges are usually unsafe on block, leaving the offending player about 20 frames at disadvantage, which is a good amount of time for the defending player to punish.

 

[Soul]

The challenge lies in battling your opponent, not your controls.

Indeed it does.
But the difficulty of executing those moves while fighting an opponent on your level or higher makes it all the more fun & challenging. Imo, at least.

Besides, higher execution barriers affect both players equally.

Never said it didn't.

and would create a wider gap between greater and lesser skilled players.

That gap is already wide as the sky.

 

[darkwings13]

The challenge lies in battling your opponent, not your controls. Besides, higher execution barriers affect both players equally and would create a wider gap between greater and lesser skilled players.

You should try blocking. Critical Edges are usually unsafe on block, leaving the offending player about 20 frames at disadvantage, which is a good amount of time for the defending player to punish.

No duh. Did you even read my post?
Edit: I should be more explicit. Say I was doing B] with Zwei. Ein's claws is like inches from opponent's face. A.Pat yolo CE. I eat it and die. The end.
Edit 2: Too many times my last move is pretty much guaranteed to hit and then invincibility frames off someone's yolo CE screws me over to be more clear.

 

[HydroJames]

No duh. Did you even read my post?
Edit: I should be more explicit. Say I was doing B] with Zwei. Ein's claws is like inches from opponent's face. A.Pat yolo CE. I eat it and die. The end.
Edit 2: Too many times my last move is pretty much guaranteed to hit and then invincibility frames off someone's yolo CE screws me over to be more clear.

aPat's CE takes 8 frames to make impact. It can interrupt you mid-string.

 

[HydroJames]

CE's have no invincibility frames. I fought @Alex.J and this happened...

I tried to punish with ...
It made a trade and I lost...

 

[Alex.J]

CE's have no invincibility frames. I fought @Alex.J and this happened...

I tried to punish with ...
It made a trade and I lost...

Btw, that trade was kind of amazing. Especially because it was an air trade and I never thought I was going to hit you lol.

No duh. Did you even read my post?
Edit: I should be more explicit. Say I was doing B] with Zwei. Ein's claws is like inches from opponent's face. A.Pat yolo CE. I eat it and die. The end.
Edit 2: Too many times my last move is pretty much guaranteed to hit and then invincibility frames off someone's yolo CE screws me over to be more clear.

What everyone says is true, no invincibility frames.

 

[SC_Yin]

You really dont know how to explain shit then. All i get from that is either u like it for some reason or you dont think it exists. Or that certain ones like Zwei doesnt count since his slow ass CE takes 22 frames and you only dare use it after launching the opponent with 66A+B, 1K BE, etc.

Ive never liked CE, only liked BE. And so far no one has provided enough reasons to say why CE was an improved mechanic. Some whiffs or is messed up like Aeon and Siggy. Others sucks. Others is really good like A.pat. And yea, i dislike invincibilty frames. Enlighten me like signia and i can actually appreciate it.

CE´s aren´t invincible at all, they´re just fast for the most part, if you´re at neutral and you do an i13 move and they do an i14 CE you will beat it. I don´t know where you came up with the invinciblity frames thing.

 

[Party Wolf]

There are two frames of invulnerability during the last two frames before impact of the super. You can frame trap all supers. Yolo supers are called yolo for a reason. All of them can be launched on block except Viola and Devil Jin. A knowledgeable player can beat them out before their impact for some damage on top of the opponent wasting their valuable meter. They also can no longer catch step due to a step guard glitch, so they're most likely even riskier than the last time you played the game.

Supers also feel satisfying to hit and are entertaining to watch. I love dropping chairs on dudes.

 

[Party Wolf]

CE´s aren´t invincible at all, they´re just fast for the most part, if you´re at neutral and you do an i13 move and they do an i14 CE you will beat it. I don´t know where you came up with the invinciblity frames thing.

 

[SC_Yin]

This is clearly a bug