If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out...

[Felix007]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Disturbing timing, I just started up a thread like this in another section.

He says that he doesn't want to force the kids to believe in evolution, but to open their minds to other possibilities... although his tone and what he talks about makes it clear that to him, if you still think there is a God after learning about evolution, YOU ARE STUPID.

Are you kidding, or do you like to strawman what other people say? Evolution and Christianity are not incompatible, it's the people that believe the Earth is 6,000 years old and we were all placed here, fully formed, as according to the Bible that he has a problem with. Dawkins doesn't think you're idiotic for being a theistic evolutionist, look at scientists such as Kenneth Miller who find both a place for their God and evolution.

Hm. True, that. I was ranting and got carried away. But suing is a pretty extreme for something as trivial as that. Just like the pledge of alleigance. If you are athiest or of a different religion that doesn't believe in one god, just don't say the words "Under God." I guess the same could be said about the presidential oath, although it's more of a tradition thing than a true "showing preference to Christianity." Most, if not all presidents who had a religion were Christians, or some other division under it. So, again, tradition.

Not in the slightest! You can't show preferential treatment towards one religion even if the majority believe in that religion. There is a reason separation of Church and State exists. As an atheist, I'm not allowed to hold public office in Arkansas, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas because of a required "belief in a higher power". Sure, I could lie about it, but why should I have to? It's not just "a little thing" we have to deal with.

The words "Under God" were added into our pledge of allegiance around the 50's, during the Cold War. It was an attempt to dehumanize the Russians by calling them "godless commies", and by adding "Under God" into our state pledge, attempt to instill a sense of superiority into Americans. It has no right to be there, but removing it would be challenging.

Funny how ppl blame their bad luck on God all the time. I don't understand that.

It doesn't seem like a double standard to you to give thanks to God for all of the good things, but not the bad?

IMO, the big bang is proof that God exists. How else could something like time itself be born?

How could something that has the ability to make time itself exist? Introducing God doesn't solve the problem of infinite regression, he aggravates it.

 

[farranpoison]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Are you kidding, or do you like to strawman what other people say? Evolution and Christianity are not incompatible, it's the people that believe the Earth is 6,000 years old and we were all placed here, fully formed, as according to the Bible that he has a problem with. Dawkins doesn't think you're idiotic for being a theistic evolutionist, look at scientists such as Kenneth Miller who find both a place for their God and evolution.

I would agree with you on the fact that many scientists have found ways to still believe in God after evolution and other science facts, but have you ever actually watched Richard Dawkins' documentary on evolution? (Yep, that's his name. I just researched it.) The man is, as I've said before, notorious for being a hardcore atheist. If it was a scientist going to a Christian school to talk about evolution, fine. But when you watch the documentary, he's clearly saying that he thinks that religion is for the uneducated. He basically says, "How can you still believe in God when evolution clearly shows that there isn't one?" The funny thing is, in his documentary, he talks about Charles Darwin as if he was a god.

"Charles Darwin wanted to be a preacher. Thankfully, he didn't pursue such a career, because if he did, we would still be unaware of the greatest scientific discovery in mankind's history."

I like a decent amount of criticism in religion, but this guy goes way too far in my book.

As for the words "Under God" that are embedded into our society today, I'll let that subject drop. I'm probably getting way in too far over my head.

 

[Marginal]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

How could something that has the ability to make time itself exist? Introducing God doesn't solve the problem of infinite regression, he aggravates it.

Another thing about the whole "OMG! Look at creation! That's proof of a creator!" is even if you accept that premise as valid, it says nothing about the nature of the creator. HP Lovecraft has as much chance of being right about the mechanics behind such a creation as a bunch of dead Hebrew folks etc do.

 

[Plume]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

I fuck up so much but the big guy always bails me out. Epic warbles, son. Epic.

I mean there isn o way there isn't SOME kind of entity trying to make my life a living hell.

And there I was wondering if I was the only one...
I don't believe in any god, but there HAS to be something somewhere that lives just to toy with me.
It's impossible for such repetitive, perfect bad luck, to "just happen".


To make by belief even stronger, when I was a kid, I was absurdly lucky.
In elementary schools, if we put our name on a paper and there was a prize for whoever got picked, the best prize was automatically mine.

So I went from impossible good luck to impossible bad luck.



(And when I play OR watch people play in SCIV, I can't help thinking that some people occasionally have extremely good luck, while others seem to have a streak of bad luck. I consider luck a trait, like strength potential, intelligence potential, etc.)

 

[docvizzo]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Random note:

Just today i read an article about the Evolution Conference organized by the Vatican, and the Vatican accepts the Evolution 100% as a fact. Thats the official statement.

Creationism again is considered as an american-only pseudoscience issue and therfore is rejected by the Vatican in every single aspect.

Of course i could give a link, but its german...;)

 

[Felix007]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

I would agree with you on the fact that many scientists have found ways to still believe in God after evolution and other science facts, but have you ever actually watched Richard Dawkins' documentary on evolution? (Yep, that's his name. I just researched it.) The man is, as I've said before, notorious for being a hardcore atheist. If it was a scientist going to a Christian school to talk about evolution, fine. But when you watch the documentary, he's clearly saying that he thinks that religion is for the uneducated. He basically says, "How can you still believe in God when evolution clearly shows that there isn't one?" The funny thing is, in his documentary, he talks about Charles Darwin as if he was a god.

"Charles Darwin wanted to be a preacher. Thankfully, he didn't pursue such a career, because if he did, we would still be unaware of the greatest scientific discovery in mankind's history."

I like a decent amount of criticism in religion, but this guy goes way too far in my book.

As for the words "Under God" that are embedded into our society today, I'll let that subject drop. I'm probably getting way in too far over my head.

"Hardcore atheist"? What do you define as hardcore? He's espousing what he believes, in a civil manner, when he is invited to teach or give a presentation. How is that any different from thousands of televangelists telling people about God on TV, or Bible studies in school, etc etc? He isn't nearly as blunt as saying that evolution means there is no God, his main complaint is with Creationists.

Certainly, science is what likely diminished any possible belief he had for God, because it slowly chips away at the strangle hold the proverbial "God of the Gaps" holds over people today. Don't know where the Universe came from? God did it. Don't know about evolution? No worries, the Bible tells us. Don't understand gravity? Here, can I introduce you to Intelligent Falling? So on and so forth.

Darwin isn't a God, but he didn't put forth the idea of natural selection, which has led evolution to becoming the unifying theory of biology, leading to advances in medicine we would not have otherwise. He holds him in high regard, but certainly not to the point of deifying him.

As for the idea that being religious makes you idiotic, while I don't agree with that blanket statement, it has been shown that the higher your I.Q., the less likely you are to be religious. There are THOUSANDS of intelligent religious people, and he's certainly not making the assumption that if you are religious, you must be an ignoramus.

The thing about the whole "OMG! Look at creation! That's proof of a creator!" is even if you accept that premise as valid, it says nothing about the nature of the creator. HP Lovecraft has as much chance of being right about the mechanics behind such a creation as a bunch of dead Hebrew folks etc do.

Pretty much. Even if you accept Intelligent Design, which God do you follow? There are thousands out there, you can't pick and choose the popular deity merely because he's popular. It also leads to the problem that, if all this "complexity" required a designer, who designed the designer?

 

[microgamer]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

At first glance I thought the title was "If I had a $1 for every time God bailed out on me..." and I thought it was gonna be a bashing thread...silly me.

Just so I contribute to the topic a little bit, there's a reading from Psalms that they always read at funerals (too lazy to look it up...google "Psalms funeral reading")-- basically explains there's a time for everything: a time to be joy, a time for suffering, a time for life, a time for death etc. This is mostly in response to KoshTheKoala's post.

 

[Manta]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

I'm all for Pastafarianism.

That is all :D


-Manta-

 

[StrayDogStrut]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

It was actually pretty good, and The God Delusion is a good read.

(ten minutes of an hour):

Also, Dawkins confronted Ted Haggard in the documentary, which was absolutely hilarious, especially given how Haggard turned out.

Found it:

Great stuff.

 

[DC97]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Let me quote my book:
"In backward, unenlightened societies," it said slowly, "it is possible to control people by means of what they believe. This belief system of yours: it's a perfect example. You must understand that beliefs like those you've described are for the weak. They make you easy to control, and they can be comforting too: it's so much simpler to make decisions about how you live your life when all the guidelines are set out in front of you."

This was on the topic about life after death where the main character tells a demon about the whole Heaven/ Hell, Good/ Bad, belief system. What i have quoted is the demon's response to it. Now this doesn't exactly fit into the "God" topic but i'm sure you can bend the meaning to make it fit.

Oh and yes i believe in God, so don't flame me.

 

[Felix007]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

I'm all for Pastafarianism.

That is all :D


-Manta-

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage lately? Be forewarned, those of you that deny your complex-carbohydrate creator are destined to rot in Noodle Hell for eternity, where they only serve warm beer.

 

[Impending_Doom66]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Manta you are such a good soul.

http://venganza.org/

This is the true face of religion.

 

[farranpoison]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage lately? Be forewarned, those of you that deny your complex-carbohydrate creator are destined to rot in Noodle Hell for eternity, where they only serve warm beer.

LOL. I want to read that pastafarianism book. I just can't find it at my library. Maybe I can mooch it off of one of my friends...

Anyway, I'm not very religious. I have a problem with unshakeable Creationists as much as I hate athiests that spout the uselessness of religion. I still believe that there is some higher power, be it God or whatever, because I think it's better to think so than not. Heck, when you die, wouldn't you want to believe that you'll have a chance to go to some cool city in the clouds? If not, an eternity of nothing is pretty damn depressing. And wasn't there some study in TIME magazine that produced the possibility that faith/religion helps people live longer?

I just don't like Dawkins. I think that he's a great scientist, and that he's done quite a bit of good for the scientific community, but the man's terrible and biased attitude towards religion makes me angry. He's on my hit list along with Blagejovich and the people who made that blasphemous movie version of the Golden Compass. Oh, and the people who made the non- existent Tsukihime anime.

 

[Felix007]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Sure, I'd rather believe than not, but it's not something I can "choose" to do, no more than I can "choose" to disbelieve in gravity or "choose" to believe in Zeus. Especially the idea of doing so for dishonest reasons. If God is that powerful, he would have the ability to see through my ploy to get into Heaven.

Think about death this way. You weren't inconvenienced at your non-existence 1,000 years ago, why would that change after you die? In reality, I think immortality is the cruelest punishment you could inflict on a sentient being.

 

[Plume]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Heck, when you die, wouldn't you want to believe that you'll have a chance to go to some cool city in the clouds? If not, an eternity of nothing is pretty damn depressing.

I PREFER to believe that when we die, our consciousness disappears forever and we're left at peace.
I strongly hope that there is no after-life of any kind.

 

[farranpoison]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Sure, I'd rather believe than not, but it's not something I can "choose" to do, no more than I can "choose" to disbelieve in gravity or "choose" to believe in Zeus. Especially the idea of doing so for dishonest reasons. If God is that powerful, he would have the ability to see through my ploy to get into Heaven.

Think about death this way. You weren't inconvenienced at your non-existence 1,000 years ago, why would that change after you die? In reality, I think immortality is the cruelest punishment you could inflict on a sentient being.

True, immortality sucks. (Zas lol)

If you had any wish in the world, ask for an end to world hunger or something. People who wish for immortality will always have to cope with people they love dying and not being able to join them. And world peace is a myth.

But hey, I think what people like about religion the most is that when you die, you can see your loved ones that died before you. That's reason enough to believe for me. When I die, I wanna sit back, relax, and wait for someone I knew to come. Then I'd pick up a beer from God's bar, toast my friend, and say, "So, how'd you end up here? Wait, you choked to death? LOL IDIOT!"

Thanks for the little spar, Felix. It's times like these that it's fun to argue with others. Especially if they're not screaming in your face. :)

Oh, and I'll crack up if the gods of H.P. Lovecraft actually existed. That would be hilarious.

 

[KoshTheKoala]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

To be fair, it's not belief in a higher power that potentially ruins society. It's following an organized religion and holy book written 1500-4000 years ago that does.

There most likely will never be proof of either side of the equation simply because that's the nature of this issue. At least in Christian terms (I'm sure for others as well), God is a matter of faith itself. To prove God's existence would essentially disprove him. While paradoxical, it's the crux of the whole issue.

I'll explain. Religion is faith of that which cannot be proven. If you prove it, it's no longer faith. God is an entity established upon faith for his existence. if you remove the faith by 'proving' existence, you remove the existence altogether.

Now, what is more of a human issue is our worship, interpretation and psychological views developed through the religion established for this unprovable deity.

Proof in God will not disprove him, but it will render all religious institutions worthless and thus destroy what is quite possibly the single richest organization in the world (the Roman Catholic Church).

I think so. Whatever his name was, when I finished watching part one of the documentary, I wanted to find him and punch him in the face. He was going to this one Christian school and asking them why they thought God made the world and why they should believe in evolution instead.

He says that he doesn't want to force the kids to believe in evolution, but to open their minds to other possibilities... although his tone and what he talks about makes it clear that to him, if you still think there is a God after learning about evolution, YOU ARE STUPID.

Asshole.

That's not what he's saying at all, so you're getting mad at what's essentially your imagination.

It's been known for hundreds of years that religion is probably the best way to control the masses. How do you stop the poor from killing the rich and taking all their money? Put the fear of god into them. How do you legitimize your unjust war? God told me to do it.

I'm all for Pastafarianism.

That is all :D


-Manta-

Reformed church or the orthodox church of the FSM?

And wasn't there some study in TIME magazine that produced the possibility that faith/religion helps people live longer?

No there wasn't.

I just don't like Dawkins. I think that he's a great scientist, and that he's done quite a bit of good for the scientific community, but the man's terrible and biased attitude towards religion makes me angry. He's on my hit list along with Blagejovich and the people who made that blasphemous movie version of the Golden Compass. Oh, and the people who made the non- existent Tsukihime anime.

He's biased because he believes he knows the truth, just as you are for believing you know the truth, and pretty much everyone else is for thinking they know the truth.

 

[Gegliosch]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

There most likely will never be proof of either side of the equation simply because that's the nature of this issue. At least in Christian terms (I'm sure for others as well), God is a matter of faith itself. To prove God's existence would essentially disprove him. While paradoxical, it's the crux of the whole issue.

I'll explain. Religion is faith of that which cannot be proven. If you prove it, it's no longer faith. God is an entity established upon faith for his existence. if you remove the faith by 'proving' existence, you remove the existence altogether.

Now, what is more of a human issue is our worship, interpretation and psychological views developed through the religion established for this unprovable deity.

I agree with Kosh. If god exists, he doesn't need anybody to believe in him. Only the church needs the people to believe, rather than to know. If there was any evidence, religion wouldn't be such a good tool for manipulating the masses.

 

[KingAce]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Sure, I'd rather believe than not, but it's not something I can "choose" to do, no more than I can "choose" to disbelieve in gravity or "choose" to believe in Zeus. Especially the idea of doing so for dishonest reasons. If God is that powerful, he would have the ability to see through my ploy to get into Heaven.

Think about death this way. You weren't inconvenienced at your non-existence 1,000 years ago, why would that change after you die? In reality, I think immortality is the cruelest punishment you could inflict on a sentient being.

I remember writing a long response to your post in the other thread, but somehow it isn't there.
And right now I don't feel like responding just yet.

 

[Y-Disciple]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

About my whole Big Bang statement, I'm not trying to push religion on anyone. I said it was my opinion, and I personally believe that that can prove his existence. To those who disagree, I ask you what your explanation for the beginning of time is? I think it should get an explanation other than "it just happened."