Leixia next patch 1.04 update???

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Um... I actually use this strategy for online play. lol.

But obviously I'd get killed offline.
 
FallenAngelII said:
Yes, but just like her other good guard breakers, it's a vertical. And her stepkillers aren't exactly scary seeing as how they don't combo (or if they do, are pretty slow).
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I've said this before, but 3A+B is both fast and combos on CH (and safe on block).
 
Kalas said:
No, she destroyed Soul Edge, not Soul Calibur! She was the original wielder of Soul Calibur.
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Of course I meant Soul Edge. That was a mistyping.

MntT77 said:
I've said this before, but 3A+B is both fast and combos on CH (and safe on block).
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I've advocated the use of 3A+B vigourously for weeks now. I know how good it is. It's only problem is that it's got mediocre to bad range, otherwise, it's really good.

As for "comboing", as far as I know, it only combos for some minor damage because they drop to the ground too fast. The Leixia combo thread doesn't even list any combos started with CH 3A+B for this very reason since it's mostly just "Poke them with something for extra damage".
 
Can't you FC 3B after CH 3A+B? Or is that techable?

I've been converted to the religion that worships this move. I was playing my friend who's a pretty good alpha pat. Predicted step and punished all day. It was awesome. He got really reluctant to step after a few games lol. Just wish the animation for the pose at the end wasn't so gay.


and I wish 6A+B and 3A weren't such ugly moves e_e But oh well what can ya do?
 
I haven't tried FC3B:ing after CH 3A+B because I thought it was techable/too slow, but even if it hits, it won't launch and I think the damage scaling should make it not-so-damaging. I'm gonna test it out tonight.
 
I'll save you both the trouble since I already covered it in the tutorials (See Ep 2 pt 1...)

1. CH 3A+B~FC 3B beats all tech except right
2. CH 3A+B~66K beats all tech except left
3. CH 3A+B~2K is guaranteed always for 46 dmg
 
MntT77 said:
48 for FC 3B, 45 for 66K. Pretty awesome, I'd say.




Huh?
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I think the pose she strikes at the end of the move looks stupid. That's why I never used it in IV. Not even sure if it was good back then. I'm not so overly concerned with aesthetics that I won't use the move because of it, but ya that's just my opinion of the animation.

6A+B and 1A both look infinitely more stupid anyway e_e

2K only does like 3 less than FC 3B? I'd say that seems like the best option if your opponent's teching it. Better to sacrifice 3 damage for a guarantee than to lose 15-ish by guessing.
 
If i had my way with the Lexia archtype, i'd keep everything the same except give her stronger chipping lows (not necessarily giving strong wakeup game), pokes and launchers with built in evasion + make her annoyingly safe.

I'd keep her damage low (one of the lowest in the roster on a per-hit and combo basis) while nerfing her guard burst game (which imo doesn't belong on a character like leixia)

You guys will probably aim to slot her in a different niche.
 
ShenOu said:
snip from the balance thread
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WuHT said:
snip from the balance thread
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I answered your quotes at the bottom of this post.

First, let's compare her damage to some other charaters.

Leixia's 3B
  • damage: 20dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 41dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 77dmg
  • speed: i17
  • on block: -13 (no pushback)
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: TC
Pyrrha's 3B
  • damage: 26dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 50dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 89dmg
  • speed: i17
  • on block: -16 (pseudo-safe due to pushback)
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: no
Patroklos' 3B
  • damage: 28dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 58dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 95dmg
  • speed: i18
  • on block: -16
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: TC
Siegfried's 3B
  • damage: 30dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 39dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 83dmg
  • speed: i18
  • on block: -1 with SCH "mix-up"
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: TC
Cervantes' 3B
  • damage: 28dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 92dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: not even needed
  • speed: i19
  • on block: -13
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: no
Ivy's 3B
  • damage: 26dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 38dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: no more dmg, but on CH 78/89dmg
  • speed: i18
  • on block: -10 (safe)
  • hits grounded: no
  • other properties: TC + TS
Tira's JS 3B
  • damage: 20dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 46dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 71dmg
  • speed: i18
  • on block: -12
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: no
Tira's GS 3B
  • damage: 20dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 89dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 95dmg
  • speed: i18
  • on block: -14
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: TC
Mitsurugi's 3B
  • damage: 32dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 63dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 79-114dmg
  • speed: i18
  • on block: -16
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: TC + BE-possibility
Yoshimitsu's 3B
  • damage: 24dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 60dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: not more except at a wall
  • speed: i17
  • on block: -14
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: TC
Alpha's 2363B
  • damage: 24dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 58dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 85dmg
  • speed: i17
  • on block: -11 (safe)
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: TC

My questions are:
What justifies the low damage for Leixia, 9dmg to the next-weakest 3B combo? Only Siegfried's und Ivy's 3B are weaker on NH, but are pseudo-safe and deal way more damage on CH.
What justifies the low damage, if it's not the safest staple launcher (without pushback) and not the only one that hits grounded and not the only one that has TC?
It's ok that it's the weakest in terms of damage, but don't you think that, given the properties, 9dmg to the next-weakest 3B is a little to much?


Leixia's 44B
  • damage: 26dmg
  • on block: -22
  • tracking: to her left
Cervantes' 44B:
  • damage: 34dmg
  • on block: -16
  • tracking: to his left
Ezio's 4B:
  • damage: 30dmg (56dmg on CH)
  • on block: -18
  • tracking: to his right
Raphael's 44B:
  • damage: 30dmg
  • on block: -16
  • tracking: no
Mitsurugi's 4B:
  • damage: 38dmg
  • on block: -12
  • tracking: both directions

My question is:
Why has the character that is "obviously" designed to be evasive the weakest and unsafest retreat move in the game? (I admit that the comparison to Mitsu's 4B doesn't make a lot of sense because it's retarded anyway.)


Now, to some of your quotes:

ShenOu said:
Maybe its because of character match up, but for me I am primarily looking out for whiffs and against Leixia this is very troubling because if I guard, I am susceptible to her guardbreak game and if I try to move, I eat way too much damage off her horizontals. Maybe I am not godlike and I cannot react to her Guard Crush moves (FC 3BB 66BBB) unless I am blocking and waiting for her to do it. In which case she can spam 33B series on me. I cannot do anything about it, even on block all I get is K (Xiba). Her main damage comes from her horizontals (AA BE, 44A series) not her verticals like most other characters, which imo in this game, which requires you to be a genius before you attempt to move... that is stronger than her previous iterations.. so if you buff everything outside of that, her main damage is going to go up like crazy like a post-patch Viola. It is true that her damage off her launcher is pathetic and with meter it doesn't improve.. But with meter she gets so much more damage from other sources..
Is Leixia OP? No... But do we need more Viola/Amy/SC3 X tier characters? No. So I vote NO because I fear this will happen to her if she receives a damage buff.
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1. Her guard break:
It's true that her guard break is one of the better ones in that game (but there are still better characters at that), but considering the (in comparison to other post-guard-burst-combos) damage she gets, it's almost a joke. Her 44[A] combo only connects after 3 moves, and her strongest meterless CH combo is the 8B+K-combo which does 69dmg. She can do 66BB CE, but think about how much damage other characters get with a free CH-combo and CE. I could have done a list about that, too.

2. Damage off her horizontals:
Well, 44A 3B is 34dmg and 44A is -12 (ok, safe to Xiba).
66AA does 26dmg. It's also JG'able on reaction which makes it -22 and it seems like half of the character roster has an auto-GI for that.
And CH 3A+B doesn't combo unless at very closerange.
The annoying thing might that her horizontals are mostly safe, I admit, but it's not really something that safes her ass.

3. 66BBB:
You should learn to react to it, it's so worth it. Even 66BB is steppable and whiffpunishable by everyone. I know some online players that react to it everytime. It's a good move, I don't deny it, but it's high risk/high reward, not low risk/high reward.

4. Other sources
What sources are you talking about? She only has AA BE and WS B BE.
CH AA BE does 59dmg, which is nice, but if you call that "so much more damage" than we know what the Leixia damage standard is.
WS B BE is only good if it evades verticals, with the (uselessly patched) scaling to it, it deals less than 60dmg.

5. Viola/Amy/ Xianghua SC3:
You think that if Leixia had like 5dmg more on same of her combos (mostly her launchers), she'd be top tier?
Imo, she wouldn't because her damage output would still be the lowest in the game, she hardly has any zoning-control at mid/long range, she has weak throws, no good mix-up lows (except for 2K and WS A+B), bad whiffpunishment,... And all of the other three characters are/were good at these things, too.
 
Kalas said:
snip
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Good effort there. There was so much wrong with ShenOu's post I couldn't even be bothered to respond. I kind of agree with WuHT thought, but we could argue forever as to what changes would be of sufficient benefit to the character while retaining her design intention.
WuHT said:
You guys will probably aim to slot her in a different niche.
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Btw WuHT, me Kalas and ZeroEffect already argued for ages about what changes would make Leixia more competitive, but we couldn't agree.
 
3B analysis
Kalas said:
My questions are:

What justifies the low damage for Leixia, 9dmg to the next-weakest 3B combo? Only Siegfried's und Ivy's 3B are weaker on NH, but are pseudo-safe and deal way more damage on CH.
What justifies the low damage, if it's not the safest staple launcher (without pushback) and not the only one that hits grounded and not the only one that has TC?
It's ok that it's the weakest in terms of damage, but don't you think that, given the properties, 9dmg to the next-weakest 3B is a little to much?
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Good job for taking the time of laying out your analysis and argument. From my understanding having leixia's NH combo being higher than ivy and siegfried's 3B is already pretty strange because both characters should (imo) slot into a "heavier hitting role" than leixia.

However, your real question is why is her 3B (and I suppose siegfried and ivy's) so much weaker than the next character (JS tira doesn't count apparantly) in your list. Well looking through that list, I agree that 9 damage is almost 25% increase, but the difference between -13 and -14 on block is much more significant than -12 to -13 on block (due to the speed of certain key moves in the series).

I also know that you have your reasons for selecting only some of the cast (not all characters have a similar 3B purpose) in your analysis. To contribute though, my character's 3B is 18 damage, and has the same NH or CH combo (38 damage or 48 point blank and character specific) and my character's 3B combo cannot benefit meter. So I don't think leixia's 3B is the "least powerful" 3B in the game but then again mine is used more as a poke than a combo fisher.

So if I were to contribute, i'd say 3B turns to -12 on block.would be something that would fit her more than a raw damage buff.

Retreat moves (4B / 44B)
My question is:
Why has the character that is "obviously" designed to be evasive the weakest and unsafest retreat move in the game? (I admit that the comparison to Mitsu's 4B doesn't make a lot of sense because it's retarded anyway.)
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Doesn't she have an auto GI available ? It does pretty well against most verticals that would be around i20 that could reach her to punish (and if they delay their punishment, then you'd have a mixup of whether you did 44B4 or 44B). I agree that mitsu's 4B is absurd, especially since you bring up the hard numbers.[/quote]
 
WuHT said:
I also know that you have your reasons for selecting only some of the cast (not all characters have a similar 3B purpose) in your analysis.
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Lol, yeah it must look like I try to falsify the results, but I didn't include every 3B in the game, because not every 3B in the game has the purpose of a staple launcher. And not every character relies on his/her 3B (like Astaroth or Pyrrha Omega).

Oh, and I know about Raphael and only for your interest I support Raphael buffs, but that's not a reason not to buffs other weak characters.
 
Kalas said:
Siegfried's 3B

  • damage: 30dmg
  • NH damage meterless: 39dmg
  • NH damage w/ meter: 83dmg
  • speed: i18
  • on block: -1 with SCH "mix-up"
  • hits grounded: yes
  • other properties: TC
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Just a minor correction. Guaranteed NH dmg w/meter is 76, you measured the dmg with clean hits. Not that its important in this discussion.
Cool list though. Maybe you should incorporate the CH values, as this is where some chars 3B (sieg and ivy) can shine.
 
Therenovator said:
kalas dont even bother explaining
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No, I do. I want to know why other players think that she is good/viable/not in need of buffs and have a normal discussion with them. And I want other players to know how I (and other Leixia players of course) think.

So everybody who disagrees with me or is a follower of the "Leixia-players-are-all-whiny-scrubs"-party:
This is your chance. I gave you numbers. I gave you facts. Tell me what I'm missing and why my complaint is not justified. I'm here.

ChaosK said:
Just a minor correction. Guaranteed NH dmg w/meter is 76, you measured the dmg with clean hits. Not that its important in this discussion.
Cool list though. Maybe you should incorporate the CH values, as this is where some chars 3B (sieg and ivy) can shine.
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Ok, I took the numbers that are in official guide. Didn't know it was wrong.
I was thinking about a CH-dmg list for your reason, but I was afraid it'd get to confusing. That's why I only mentioned Siegfried's and Ivy's CH 3B dmg.

@ Therenovator

For the sake of keeping things civil and logic, I ask you to stay out of here.
 
Therenovator said:
i think i have just as much right to comment here than you do.
so if you dont like it how about you stay out of here ,nice try synrai.
your just wasting your time trying to explain, those that dont play leixia will never see where your coming from.
speaking of representing, i think you represent what you think if any player here has an opinion they should express it themselves.
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this may be harsh..I think your ass should be atleasts suspended or banned..sorry but your post all of them have NOTHING to contribute...then you just tell others there wrong and you keep saying nonsense stuff...no you don't have as much credibility as kalas or any other top player, (unless you studied the game, went to offline tourneys and gave logic reasoning in your post) same for me. True you have your opinions but opinions can be wrong....not logical and misleading..hence Im actually done replying to you, since you dont listen to others anyway.
 
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