Rechact
[08] Mercenary
2KB is untouched. 2K BE (2kA+B+K) is losing at least some of its meter gain, as many people thought it was silly that a brave edge gained a whole bunch of meter.
Mitsurugi General Discussion and Q&A
- Thread starter Ring
- Start date
I know this thread is a bit old, but I've been doing something in training lately that's getting me putting out 6B2 100%. Think of it like this: 6B52. Yes, 5. Obviously you can't hardhand it like a noob, but make it a conscious thing to return the stick to the middle and then go down, and once you've got the timing down the split second it takes to go to the middle is enough to make it NOT JF.
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- #203
Belial
King of Hundred Swords
TinMan: ye it works if your doing it out in the open, but the main trouble is during recoveries (like in combos) where it wont help (
I think there was talk of one of the general updates being the fix of various moves and how the buffer weird and fuck up on the come out... We can hope this falls under that lol, but yeah, I feel I need to practice this move more, it's a difficult to read low poke with decent range that hits OTG, it sounds like I should probably incorporate it more...
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
How do you use CE?
I don't find myself using it over 2KB BE, I find the sweep (or at least the psychological damage that comes with it) to be of more value.
I did notice it catches siderolls both ways, but at the same time it's only 60 damage... I feel like I'm paying a lot for what I'm getting.
I don't find myself using it over 2KB BE, I find the sweep (or at least the psychological damage that comes with it) to be of more value.
I did notice it catches siderolls both ways, but at the same time it's only 60 damage... I feel like I'm paying a lot for what I'm getting.
Signia
[13] Hero
I spend my meter equally between CE, 3B*, 2KB*, 236B* and GI.
CE tacks on a lot of extra damage on your step catching with 66A and 22A. And it's not just 60 damage, you often get the 1B followup which adds a bit more. By the wall, 66BB certainly makes it worth it.
236B* I use to my punishment game stronger. People are still just throwing out JGable moves, and at i16 this is a reliable way to punish them. I could be using 236B instead, but this won't put me at -2.
3B* just seems perfectly safe against the people I play. I use it so much that people expect the second hit and freeze up. It's also good by the wall because they can't aerial control 236B. I still have trouble hit confirming and not using the BE when 3B hits, though.
2KB* I actually don't use very often. I always eat a huge punish when someone blocks this, as this is one move everybody punishes, even if it's the only move in the game they ever punish. People backdash it all the time, too. It's hard to use standing due it's lack of range and it's hard to use on oki because they may not get up. It's just too risky for me, and when I want to go low I opt for 6B2 or I just throw. I feel like I can get by with playing perfectly safe and not leave it up to chance so much. They may read me in other ways but everybody capitalizes on a 2KB* read. Yeah not the traditional way to play Mitsu but this is not the traditional Mitsu.
GI... Mitsu has an amazing GI game and it's really effective against certain playstyles and when JG is failing you.
OZombiePenguinO
[09] Warrior
Sorry for double post. What's the difference in the input for the two 6B2's? I wish I could use the faster one every time.
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
You have to do it slow to get it to come out fast, and you have to do it fast to get it to come out slow.
Yes, you read that right.
It's just a matter of timing. Practice, and using it over and over again in real matches.
In combos, you can buffer 6B and then press 2 when Mitsu goes back to neutral stance. Though, if you mess up, you're usually whiffing, that's not good... or, the slow one comes out if you do it too fast...
It's just practice. Don't sweat it...
Yes, you read that right.
It's just a matter of timing. Practice, and using it over and over again in real matches.
In combos, you can buffer 6B and then press 2 when Mitsu goes back to neutral stance. Though, if you mess up, you're usually whiffing, that's not good... or, the slow one comes out if you do it too fast...
It's just practice. Don't sweat it...
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
I've noticed sometimes 4A whiffs up-close. Does this happen to anyone else?
I know I should be using 6A in these situations...
I know I should be using 6A in these situations...
Dinosaur
[09] Warrior
Mitsu is powerful (in my opinion) because he is versatile. He has enough range to play an effective spacing+poking game against a significant portion of the cast, and is fast enough and safe enough to pressure the remainder effectively up close. If your plan isn't working (whether it's defensive poking or rushdown/guard gauge pressure/etc) you almost always have good alternatives.
Not every character in this game has good mid/low as well as vertical/horizontal mixups, but Mitsu does. 2KB and 2KBE are a central part of my game with Mitsurugi. Every time you're in range and at neutral frames/advantage, you can force a 50/50 guess on them. 2KBE makes all of Mitsu's mids better just by existing. 3B and 66B (hitconfirm, don't want to get punished!) B are probably my most common mixup moves with 2KBE, with 4KB being a decent alternative if my opponent is able to consistently punish 3B (-16). There are a lot of different opinions about Mitsu's brave edges, but I find that I use probably 75% of my meter on 2KBE, 20% on CE, and 5% on end-of-round GI attempts.
One reason the 2KBE/3B mixup is so good is the fact that in addition to respectable damage, both knock the opponent down (2KBE even prevents ukemi). Mitsurugi has (in my opinion) very strong wakeup game. 66A+B, 2A+B, 6B2, 3B, and even otherwise lackluster 1A all do a great deal of work for me on wakeup. It's obviously not a 50/50, but you are rewarded with damage and usually a reset for each correct guess, and you are rewarded immensely for good reads. CE is good if you have good reason to believe the opponent will roll, particularly against a ring edge or wall. Not only does it damage them, but it will RO/w! the otg opponent as well. It is one of very few moves in the game that has these properties.
On the subject of knockdowns, you have access to a variety of moves that play other roles that also happen to knock down, especially on CH. bA, 66A, and 22A all reward you well for correctly predicting step. B6 and 4B come to mind as well.
As far as defensive play is concerned, the 6B series is amazing. 6B8 is i14, -2 on block, +6 on hit, does 32 on NH and guard damage (not tons, but still!) if they block it. It's a punisher, a pressure move, and a safe way to turn counterhit into nontrivial frame advantage. Opponents that don't respect your +6 risk eating one of the aforementioned CH knockdowns, and suddenly it's them on the defensive... and the ground. 6B2 is an unreactable low that leaves you at -2 on hit and -12 on block. In addition to all the damage you can get over the course of a round (4 NH is 80 damage; definitely NOT nothing), it's a safe(r) way to condition opponents to crouch. 4B is an excellent evasive tool, stops an incredible number of offensive options (in particular for shorter ranged characters like Natsu and Maxi) and can be cancelled into MST to keep from getting predictable. If you have the meter and the read, MST BBE is insane on CH. 66A+B reaches farther than it looks like, is cancelable, and does decent guard damage. It's an excellent spacing tool, and absolutely crushes players who instinctively backroll away from Mitsurugi rather than stand up and face a mixup.
I'm sure there are many better players than me on here that could tell you exactly what is optimal in a given situation (the combo, oki, and punishment threads are a tremendous resource, and Belial et al. are true gentlemen and scholars for their work) but the above is a summary of how I approach Mitsu in general, and it does reasonably well for me. Hope it helps. At any rate, this is the kind of thing that I could see others asking about in the future, so I hope the SA can forgive my necropost if it doesn't...
Not every character in this game has good mid/low as well as vertical/horizontal mixups, but Mitsu does. 2KB and 2KBE are a central part of my game with Mitsurugi. Every time you're in range and at neutral frames/advantage, you can force a 50/50 guess on them. 2KBE makes all of Mitsu's mids better just by existing. 3B and 66B (hitconfirm, don't want to get punished!) B are probably my most common mixup moves with 2KBE, with 4KB being a decent alternative if my opponent is able to consistently punish 3B (-16). There are a lot of different opinions about Mitsu's brave edges, but I find that I use probably 75% of my meter on 2KBE, 20% on CE, and 5% on end-of-round GI attempts.
One reason the 2KBE/3B mixup is so good is the fact that in addition to respectable damage, both knock the opponent down (2KBE even prevents ukemi). Mitsurugi has (in my opinion) very strong wakeup game. 66A+B, 2A+B, 6B2, 3B, and even otherwise lackluster 1A all do a great deal of work for me on wakeup. It's obviously not a 50/50, but you are rewarded with damage and usually a reset for each correct guess, and you are rewarded immensely for good reads. CE is good if you have good reason to believe the opponent will roll, particularly against a ring edge or wall. Not only does it damage them, but it will RO/w! the otg opponent as well. It is one of very few moves in the game that has these properties.
On the subject of knockdowns, you have access to a variety of moves that play other roles that also happen to knock down, especially on CH. bA, 66A, and 22A all reward you well for correctly predicting step. B6 and 4B come to mind as well.
As far as defensive play is concerned, the 6B series is amazing. 6B8 is i14, -2 on block, +6 on hit, does 32 on NH and guard damage (not tons, but still!) if they block it. It's a punisher, a pressure move, and a safe way to turn counterhit into nontrivial frame advantage. Opponents that don't respect your +6 risk eating one of the aforementioned CH knockdowns, and suddenly it's them on the defensive... and the ground. 6B2 is an unreactable low that leaves you at -2 on hit and -12 on block. In addition to all the damage you can get over the course of a round (4 NH is 80 damage; definitely NOT nothing), it's a safe(r) way to condition opponents to crouch. 4B is an excellent evasive tool, stops an incredible number of offensive options (in particular for shorter ranged characters like Natsu and Maxi) and can be cancelled into MST to keep from getting predictable. If you have the meter and the read, MST BBE is insane on CH. 66A+B reaches farther than it looks like, is cancelable, and does decent guard damage. It's an excellent spacing tool, and absolutely crushes players who instinctively backroll away from Mitsurugi rather than stand up and face a mixup.
I'm sure there are many better players than me on here that could tell you exactly what is optimal in a given situation (the combo, oki, and punishment threads are a tremendous resource, and Belial et al. are true gentlemen and scholars for their work) but the above is a summary of how I approach Mitsu in general, and it does reasonably well for me. Hope it helps. At any rate, this is the kind of thing that I could see others asking about in the future, so I hope the SA can forgive my necropost if it doesn't...
Dinosaur
[09] Warrior
I feel like I've been having less trouble with it since the patch, but that might be placebo/practice paying off/wishful thinking.
Qeruberosu
[09] Warrior
Im assuming it was changed because i was intentionally doing it in a way that wouldve caused the JF to come out pre-patch, but i was gettin the normal one.
hoshinocomet
[14] Master
Nothing's changed regarding the 6B2 timing.
MuffinMan123
[10] Knight
I was having trouble doing that 22B 6B2 combo so I tried to replace 6B2 with 1B, but I end up missing. I set the computer to tech in different directions, and sometimes 22B 1B perfectly combos while sometimes it doesn't. it wasn't depending on direction of teching but rather where the opponent was.
6B2 is really hard to do for me. I have bad reaction time so if I wait till animation is neutral again, I might miss the attack moment, and even if I don't miss, I might still get that damn JF because my input was on time anyway, that was fucked up.
can some one tells me what rcc means?
is it better to play with mitsu on pad or on stick? a lot of his best moves are double tabs and I suck at doing that on stick.
what play style should mitsu be used for? many times I end up going into face to face range and both of us end up hacking each other spamming till the other dies, and that's really screwed up.
6B2 is really hard to do for me. I have bad reaction time so if I wait till animation is neutral again, I might miss the attack moment, and even if I don't miss, I might still get that damn JF because my input was on time anyway, that was fucked up.
can some one tells me what rcc means?
is it better to play with mitsu on pad or on stick? a lot of his best moves are double tabs and I suck at doing that on stick.
what play style should mitsu be used for? many times I end up going into face to face range and both of us end up hacking each other spamming till the other dies, and that's really screwed up.
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
1B has short range on grounded opponents. 6B2 does not.
If you want consistency you have to use 6B2.
Yeah. Maybe they could have had the input for the slow version be 6B[2]. Oh well.
Recover Crouch Cancel.
Double taps are going to be a lot faster on pad because of the nature of pad (i.e. extremely short throw). I gave up the idea of playing stick a long time ago, and I am convinced that stick players either:
a) are misguided
b) actually have a natural talent/preference towards that input method resulting in higher effectiveness (for them and them alone)
c) grew up in the arcades
It's important to be honest with yourself. Stick does not necessarily offer better execution, and in some cases (like mine) hinder proper operation. In other words, do what you know, and not what you don't.
I'm not sure myself.
There's turtle Mitsu, who can poke repeatedly and space. Mitsu's pokes are generally better than most of the cast; he can keep this up for a long time.
Then there's aggro Mitsu, who can repeatedly 6B8/6B2/throw/bait & whiff punish/etc. until he gets meter, at which point he runs in and forces mixups via 2KB BE until you're dead.
Mitsu has enough tools (including his movement) that it's possible to switch between the two on the fly. Because he's so versatile there isn't a right way to use him and different Mitsurugi players act in wildly varying ways.
MuffinMan123
[10] Knight
the thing I like about stick are the button placements. I find it easier to press multiple buttons on stick than trying to make my coordination work for shoulder buttons. maybe that's why people use hit box
priestofb
[09] Warrior
I remember lots of fun arguments on stick vs. pad back in the SC1 days. Quite heated arguments, in fact.
I spent all of my SC1 time once the DC hit playing pad, and it was far preferable for me to stick (even given the shit DC pad, and I had to get a Capcom vs SNK edition fight pad to be able to play).
That being said, on stick the button placements are better for hitting multiples, since you've got a whole hand there as opposed to one thumb. You don't need to map anything since you can't miss them. Any execution gap on the stick itself is only due to a lack of time spent. Considering you play every other game with a d-pad and only fighting games with a stick potentially, there's a certain gulf you have to get past. I've come full circle back to the stick now, although I'll admit it was driven partially by my choice of 360 as platform to play SCV on. The 360 d-pad is an abomination.
I spent all of my SC1 time once the DC hit playing pad, and it was far preferable for me to stick (even given the shit DC pad, and I had to get a Capcom vs SNK edition fight pad to be able to play).
That being said, on stick the button placements are better for hitting multiples, since you've got a whole hand there as opposed to one thumb. You don't need to map anything since you can't miss them. Any execution gap on the stick itself is only due to a lack of time spent. Considering you play every other game with a d-pad and only fighting games with a stick potentially, there's a certain gulf you have to get past. I've come full circle back to the stick now, although I'll admit it was driven partially by my choice of 360 as platform to play SCV on. The 360 d-pad is an abomination.
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
That's true, button inputs usually are easier on stick. I think I might personally blame manufacturers for making crappy buttons but that's just me.
With eight buttons my mappings work pretty well for me, without having to use "Tekken claw". of course, that's me, and not you.
And then there's stuff like this.
but... we're getting a little bit off topic here... ehe
hoshinocomet
[14] Master
Whats that thing? O_O