Mitsurugi General Discussion and Q&A

Synraii said:
I love the move for this, but is clearly stupidly OP - I wouldn't even mind the two way tracking if it was at least universally punishable, say -15/16 or so.
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The point of evasion is to get you out of trouble. If you just stand there you can always JG this and get your better punish. If best answer people can come up with to spam is just stand there doing nothing they deserve to die to spam.

The problem is that you cannot form some kind of progressive defence here, as JG after sidestepping and blocking is impossilbe (probably has to do with tapping a G). So you cant form any kind of advanced pattern here.
You cant dash in, wait and see. You cant step and see, or step and atack.
So right now, to beat it, you have to read it. Not "I think he's up to something so I'll not rush blindly" you have to "He's going for 4B now," which involves risky options, like long sidesteps or slow ranged moves.
This drags the game into a field of randomness. Which is lame.
Against X I know if I step to the left her 44B will wiff no matter what. So I step, then If I see her 44B I punish, if I see nothing during step, I just atack or block. At least I have time to react. With Mitsu I see his 4B and I fear to step again, since this shit tracks so well. I can GI, but that's meter. So Im forced to 8wr and react to it with 22B.

Luneth22 said:
I see what you mean now by 4B being a bit crazy.

MST A does 28 by default. Maybe raise it to 30+?
FC1BB can do 90+ damage?!
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Its not crazy. Its just doesnt make sense compared to other tools of other chars.

DrakeAldan said:
Is that what it is? I've had instances of the third hit being blocked, it usually happens if I 2KB them on the ground sometimes...
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Yes, consistant way to get this bug is 2KB*, 2KB*.
 
Which is my issue with it. I have to have a tool set aside specifically for 4B and then commit to it, risking him using any other tool he has to kill me and its almost risk free to Mitsu =/
(Glad my main can actually punish it so I don't have to take that risk, lol)
 
Synraii said:
Typically, I don't mind 4B if I'm using Alpha because it can be punished by JFT, JFT easily, but he is the only character that can deal with it at midrange. In a lot of matchups its a total get out of jail free card in so many situations and makes zoning against Mitsurugi absolute hell to do in certain matchups.

I love the move for this, but is clearly stupidly OP - I wouldn't even mind the two way tracking if it was at least universally punishable, say -15/16 or so.
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Synraii you need to test your stuff before making cocky remarks :) 4B easily punished? I call huge Bullshit on that. Its -12 and quite hard to punish, especially in a real match. The blockstun isnt too long for 4B, so you need to start buffering 214 very fast after block, if you didnt just passively stay there and wait for 4B, its quite hard.

Not only that, but spaced correctly, JF Twister doesnt even have the range. Also on some distances its just to slow. On max range JF Twister takes longer to impact, so its completely safe, means your JF Twister will be blocked. JF Twister is only i12 from close range, not from mid range, max range.

So only on super close range you can punish it with i12 and still is super hard.

Still i dont feel it needs a huge fix, -14 would be good i guess.
 
Doc, its easily punished because the animation is hugely telegraphed and you can bait it. I find the issue with -12 punishing is that you need a moment to know when to punish and 4B gives you that. Its not like Cervy 66A, you can identify this move and fire off a punish with good consistency if you practice it. I stand by that.

Though yes, it is susceptible to a well spaced 4B and then dying, lol. Good answer nontheless I say.

*Edit*
I just went into vs. mode against Mitsu cpu for 3 games and blocked 4B at close range twice, got the punish once and got FC 3B once. Its just a case of learning the blockstun on the move.
(I need to learn how to JG it on reaction in a match though, because then its an easy twister to anyone and looks SICK if you can do it)
 
Synraii said:
Doc, its easily punished because the animation is hugely telegraphed and you can bait it. I find the issue with -12 punishing is that you need a moment to know when to punish and 4B gives you that. Its not like Cervy 66A, you can identify this move and fire off a punish with good consistency if you practice it. I stand by that.

Though yes, it is susceptible to a well spaced 4B and then dying, lol. Good answer nontheless I say.
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I want to see you doing that in a real match first :) Either you have godlike execution, better than all of us OR...:)

Against Cervantes its a LOT easier imo, since basically ANY move is unsafe. So you always have JF Twister in Mind, which makes your mind more prepared and focused.

You know in SC4 i tried to tell people they can not punish -15 moves with Cervantes even 2 years after the game was out? They kept discussing with me, even though his iGDR was i16 from most ranges, lol. They just didnt give a shit about facts, lol.

Punishing -12 with an i12 Move, which is not AA....pretty ballsy :P
 
docvizzo said:
Punishing -12 with an i12 Move, which is not AA....pretty ballsy :P
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And sexy when it works. =P
Bear in mind I used to punish Amy AS B mash with a+k[A] with Siegfried, lol. Ask Chiyo, I got her with it at EBO, Freakysound was complimenting me for it.
 
docvizzo said:
Against Cervantes its a LOT easier imo, since basically ANY move is unsafe.
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Granted, most of his tools are unsafe, but you are a lot more familiar with Cervy than most. I would imagine I punish Sieg shenanigans more consistently than you for the same reason. =/
 
Belial said:
4B tracks to both sides and its safe. Of course you can still step it with long 8wring or timed steps, but overall its dumb.
X 44B is unsafe
Raph 44B is unsafe etc

I also think FC 1BB is just gay. 90 dmg + wakeup + crazy meter build (40 pts total) out of nowhere. wtf is this?

Stuff that is clarly lame:
MST A - need moar dmg
MST B+K only BB on block? really?
44A -2 on hit?

Maybe damage nerf of 5-10% to all moves above 20pts?
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Assuming I understood correctly, Mist B+K is not only punished by BB on block. B+K can be punished by a plethora of verticals assuming Mitsu doesnt try to sneak in Mist B after mist B+K block. And even then that wont work in baiting a ch against some characters. Nightmare for example can punish with 3B if mitsu player attempts ANY of the mist moves after B+K block even Mist B. Not to mention you can ss easily after block B+K assuming Mitsu doesnt follow up with mist A.

Instead of more damage, (this might be asking too much) but I would like to see MST Hold A allow Mitsu to go back to Mist for possible mix up after hit.

I agree that the damage needs to be toned. It seems as Namco compensated for taking away so many of mitsu's moves by giving him more damage. i personally prefer versatility in gameplay and options for different combos than insane damage. Mind you, I am well aware that Mitsu is about his pokes and wake up game but Mitsu had many nice combos in 4 for example. For example, why not change 3A to cause some other type of stun as oppose to breakable stun? I'm not advocating for 236B into CE. But it would be nice to see 6B ch 3A (some fall back stun preventing 236B or CE) that leads to some follow up maybe 66B or 1B. All I'm asking for is a bit more versatility. Point is I would like to see more variety instead of 236B BE into CE etc.

Edit: i was a huge fan of restun combos. To me it looked cool. But I am aware of options of b+K after mist A+B etc. Personally I'm not a fan of the CE combos. I know they are important to his game and lead to good damage, but I'm not a fan of it. I need to just accept changes and go with flow. :)
 
Lol you guys are being a bit ridiculous about 4b.
First of all when did asking for patches instead of playing the game become so acceptable?
That is trash.

Second 4b can be stepped quickstepped and side walked on reaction in both directions for a free launch punisher.

Third you can do a move that has enough range to beat it out.

Fourth you can run up on him and interrupt it with moves that even don't have enough range normally.
 
Jaeger said:
Lol you guys are being a bit ridiculous about 4b.
First of all when did asking for patches instead of playing the game become so acceptable?
That is trash.

Second 4b can be stepped quickstepped and side walked on reaction in both directions for a free launch punisher.
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The quick step will evade the move at least offline with no problems. Now keep in mind if you try to quickstep after mitsu has already pull back then YOU WILL GET HIT. Its speed is deceptive. But the move can be quick step easily if you anticipate it and your reaction skills are good.
 
If Namco could make a changes for MST here are some suggestions:

- Make MST A a Mid hitting attack
- Make MST B+K either do a weak ass attack throw or leave MST stance on hit/guard
- Give him MST 6B/6BB for a mix up mid in case if the previous two suggestions aren't taken
- Decrease charge time of MST [B+K]
 
Belial said:
MST is fine as is
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Sorry as much as I enjoyed your combo vid, I respectfully disagree. I'm all for bringing back mist 6bb. But to balance it out, no followup to mist 6b other than the second b. Having a legitimate "somewhat safe and quick" mid would force (to a certain degree) opponents to remain at standing guard or to 8wr when confronted with mist.
 
Tou may disagree all you want but mst as is already decent, any serious buffs would break it. Making mst A slighly more dmg and making full charge bk slightly faster would be good, but no mst 6b lol. Instantly broken
 
So far as i can tell mst is super anoying if used right. Gthere are always options to counter anythin opp does, unless youre at the wall, damage on ch is sick, builds tons of meter, meterless low for 46 to keep em ducking all the time. It might not be the safest way to close the round, but as a way to build meter for 2kb its great
 
Btw I try to use 44B as a wake up or after a guard break (not as often bec i mix 3B and 2KB). I want to find other uses for it considering the high damage and combo potential if I land it on ch. Anyone care to share what strategies they use if any, for 44B. Thanks in advance.
 
Belial said:
So far as i can tell mst is super anoying if used right. Gthere are always options to counter anythin opp does, unless youre at the wall, damage on ch is sick, builds tons of meter, meterless low for 46 to keep em ducking all the time. It might not be the safest way to close the round, but as a way to build meter for 2kb its great
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The reason I advocate for mist 6bb is to be able to be able to use mist at mid range in an offensive manner. Mist A+B just doesnt cut it. The revenge feature sucks and mist A is slow . And lets face it, not a lot of mist use at high level play (from what I seen). Now i'm ok with non guaranteed combo after 6b. In fact why not make mist 6b similar to old relic b? (That move lets face it looked hot!) Not sure if animation would look right but you get my point hopefully lol). Either that or make A+B faster but require ch for stun and a quicker mist A to compensate for it being a high move and only horizontal. Thats reasonable. Even you agreed that Mist A is slow and dont get me started on mist B+K (GB version). That is way too slow.
 
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