Nightmare's Movelist Changes and Move Speculation Thread

bA wasn't very good anyway. The evasion on it was mediocre and it was a high. The only reason it had any use compared to B+K for evading was that it hit faster. Not a big loss.
 
Tiamat said:
bA wasn't very good anyway.
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Actually - when I last played Keev, he found a use for bA versus Siegfried:
As I'm sure many of you know - one of his favourite agressive mixups is step in, step left, throw/3B/1K, well when I saw him step in, I immediately went for iWSB to beat the throw but surprisingly to me at least, bA beat it - he caught me a few times with it, lol.
 
Tiamat said:
bA wasn't very good anyway. The evasion on it was mediocre and it was a high. The only reason it had any use compared to B+K for evading was that it hit faster. Not a big loss.
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I beg to differ. I believed bA was extremely under-rated, relatively low risk option in Nightmare's spacing game. As Syrnaii said, it was very, very useful in the step in/bA trap bait, good for a "safe" re-spacing (you can do it at medium range and immediately go into long range. Would be very difficult to punish due to the fact that NM can go into GS from there and punish them with CH GS A) and was very useful against characters who tend to go forward as they attack.

Some examples include Xianghua's AA (which almost shuts down NM's B+K entirely along with 2A). I believe that if bA would be in SC5, it would have made Nightmare ridiculously good so i can see why they took it out as Nightmare's spacing game would have been almost impossible to shut down.

Its evasion was poor at close range due to the long start-up time of the evasion frame but were extremely good at short-medium range and further.
 
Synraii said:
Actually - when I last played Keev, he found a use for bA versus Siegfried:
As I'm sure many of you know - one of his favourite agressive mixups is step in, step left, throw/3B/1K, well when I saw him step in, I immediately went for iWSB to beat the throw but surprisingly to me at least, bA beat it - he caught me a few times with it, lol.
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Well I'm not saying it's useless but I don't think it's very good either. B+K into NSS bA/A+B would probably work in that same situation for potentially bigger reward. Against Siegfriend I think bA is guaranteed from a blocked 3B unless sieg goes to his B+K stance, so there are some specific uses where it works better than anything else. Overall though it is a situational move that generally has roughly equivalent or better alternatives.
 
i thought it was extremely unsafe if you don't go into GS. the recovery was horrible on block. I'd say aB (in SC 6B) is a much less useful move, i barely find any use for it.
 
aB had situational uses. Off of a sidestep it was probably his best forward ringout move on NH, and on block the frames were only slightly negative on block so you could apply basic NSS mixups with it.

It should be alot more useful in SCV since you can now do CH 6(B), NSS K, 2A+B, whereas you could only do that off of a CH GS A in SCIV.
 
I've found aB to be a fairly underrated move in SC4. Its frames on hit and block are excellent, it's fast, and it also does good gauge damage. It's high and linear though, so it can be risky to throw out randomly.
 
It's somewhat funny how big of an upgrade it is just that the command was changed from aB to 6B. That single change should make it go from a situational move to a staple move. So happy to have an ok (I hope) block punisher from standing for the first time EVER*. The new combo on CH is nice as well. Of course I may be being overly optimistic here, the move may have been slowed down or the normal hit frames might have been lowered for all I know.

* since the current NM moveset appeared from SC3 onward
 
Tiamat said:
It's somewhat funny how big of an upgrade it is just that the command was changed from aB to 6B. That single change should make it go from a situational move to a staple move. So happy to have an ok (I hope) block punisher from standing for the first time EVER*. The new combo on CH is nice as well. Of course I may be being overly optimistic here, the move may have been slowed down or the normal hit frames might have been lowered for all I know.

* since the current NM moveset appeared from SC3 onward
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Yeah if it gives massive positive frames from NH like it did in SC4 or if 6 (B) NSS K is a NC combo.
 
On the topic, I like the input changes so far. There's the aforementioned old aB now 6B, and then there's the old WR AA now 22AA. I'd be happier about old 44BB being 4B, but the ground stun nerf sucks.
 
The 4b command just feels weird. You don't expect a move like that to have that input. And I miss the old 4b. It actually would have been a useful move now that break attacks are good.
 
page said:
The 4b command just feels weird. You don't expect a move like that to have that input. And I miss the old 4b. It actually would have been a useful move now that break attacks are good.
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Pardon my ignorance, but what has changed in regard to break attacks?
 
Tons of +frames. Almost SC2 +frames on some moves. Like Pyrrha can hit 236bs after break attacks near walls.
 
Hopefully, they will fix (SC4)(Hit)aB->NSSK to be a combo against every character in the same regular input timing and range. Then I will be happy. =)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ItkUPQwFW_o#t=206s

2 A+B has clean hit property

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wjSpY540UGo#t=59s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wjSpY540UGo#t=100s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wjSpY540UGo#t=119s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wjSpY540UGo#t=144s

66K on normal hit seems to be get the same effect as counter hit, opponent falling backwards. This will be pretty powerful with walls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TylEWK1n3LM#t=100s

22B has clean hit property

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TylEWK1n3LM#t=166s

66B > 33B combo does not work anymore? due 66B's animation changed and launched lower?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TylEWK1n3LM#t=185s

cool FC B+G/A+G pickup from 66A+B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ItkUPQwFW_o#t=185s

6K has clean hit property but i believe that's been mentioned?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TylEWK1n3LM#t=403s

and i remember seeing 4BB launches, the first hit will stun them on the ground but somehow the second B will launch.
 
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