[North Carolina] Let's make a scene
- Thread starter D4rkSch1sm
- Start date
Ceron
[09] Warrior
That's broken as fuck given how many frames it takes to do shit in SC games. I could be in recovery from a move w/ -9 and get aced. I guess the question is what are the start up frames for the throw CE?
Smeesh
[08] Mercenary
Now that I don't know. My preference would be for that move to be like VF and if they're attacking it won't throw. But knowing namco that's not exactly likely to happen. I would assume though that it has a decent amount of startup time that you don't see before the screen goes black and you get thrown.
FOX
[08] Mercenary
Naw, that shits pretty fast AND if they don't hit you before activation they're getting grabbed. Just saw Pyrrah get grabbed out of an attack while trying to stop Ivy from activating.
Also I just realised....where the fuck is Talim?!!
Also I just realised....where the fuck is Talim?!!
Ceron
[09] Warrior
Yeah, those CE command throws are going to be trouble. Especially for those of us who are more disciplined to break throws instead of crouching them. Seems like every game, Namco makes it harder to play safe because they hate Atlanta, GA.
There's only two remedies if they are fast.
1. Tech crouch moves tech properties must be legit as hell. None of that SC4 "I'm kicking you in the ankles, but I'm really standing" shit.
2. Those characters should be easily poked and annoyed. To some extent, Astaroth is already that character. Ivy, not so much.
She lives on through quick step!
There's only two remedies if they are fast.
1. Tech crouch moves tech properties must be legit as hell. None of that SC4 "I'm kicking you in the ankles, but I'm really standing" shit.
2. Those characters should be easily poked and annoyed. To some extent, Astaroth is already that character. Ivy, not so much.
She lives on through quick step!
Ceron
[09] Warrior
Also...
Leixia's range has down syndrome. I guess naming her weapon "ten feet of blue" had a purpose.
Leixia's range has down syndrome. I guess naming her weapon "ten feet of blue" had a purpose.
longshot
[09] Warrior
Attacks beating throws clean works in the VF system since it was designed as an integral part of the system, but throws in VF tend to be a stronger option than in SC, so I'd rather not see SC throws weakened like that unless the entire system was overhauled w/ that in mind. Without any other changes, I could maybe accept both sides getting reset to neutral.
edit: Oh, just the CE throws? Ehhh... would still rather that not be the solution, gotta be a better one.
I'd like to check this out, link?
3. Have these CE throws not track step.
4. Get real solid at zoning (as best you can in this sort of game) when the other person has a full bar.
If I have time I'll try to test a few scenarios out at NEC, but more likely we'll have to wait until the release to see just how strong the CE throws are as an option.
Ceron
[09] Warrior
It's going to be a great January.
FOX
[08] Mercenary
longshot
[09] Warrior
Honestly, Ivy's CE throw startup (from that video) does not look fast enough to be abusable, IMO. The startup animation is kinda deceptive, granted. But both those CE throws in that round were started after a blocked B+K, B from Pyrrah. If it has similar frames on block as Sophie, that's launcher punishable (or close to it). In the first case after the blocked B+K, B, you can see Pyrhha was in her guard animation before the screen turned black, and in the second case after blocked B+K, B, she got halfway through a poke before getting grabbed. Either way, the CE throw didn't outright punish something that is most likely launcher punishable.
FOX
[08] Mercenary
I'm just noting that it grabbed her out of an attack the first time, after B+K, B Pyrrah went for another attack.
longshot
[09] Warrior
Ah, I see. I had Will's question about the startup time on my mind.
Rikkugrl25
[09] Warrior
So our designated date is this coming saturday and I have yet to confirm anyone and anywhere for this gathering. There will be no get together if no one is going to come and if we don't know where to go. The plan was to play any of the SC games for fun on Dec. 10 and most likely in Winston but I have no clear information from anyone that this will happen. If this falls through then we may go to Greensboro if anyone wants to join us there.
TheInnerMindEye
[09] Warrior
if you decide to come to greensboro, please let me know.
Ceron
[09] Warrior
What's in Greensboro? I mean... that sounds like a place to play.
longshot
[09] Warrior
Hey everybody, we're back from NEC. I only entered the random team tournament for SC IV and skipped the singles on Saturday, because after that I was done for the day w/ a splitting headache and could not focus at all. I got lucky as hell drawing Malek as my partner, and thus Malek carried our team to first.
That said, on to the real draw, SC V. I got a decent number of games in, probably around a dozen. They had four stations setup (not counting the temporary stream setup w/ it as well early Saturday). Daishi was there and taking challengers on the stream, so naturally I decided my first time playing SC V (w/ Pyrrah) had to be on the stream against Daishi. And promptly got bodied by his Patroklus! XD I actually was doing decent by the end, got one round off him and close to a second, just got destroyed the first few rounds having no idea what to expect. After that, I spent some of Saturday and Sunday waiting to play. Long lines at each station, so much that both players only got one game, then win or lose, both players got up.
Alright, general notes/impressions first, then specific answers and observations.
General:
- We did not have the latest build, unfortunately. So no Aeon, Cervy, Yoshi or Xiba.
- Visually, it looks SO. DAMN. GOOD. Makes IV look almost shabby in comparison. Extremely polished.
- Can't say much about the music, because the room was so loud, but as usual hits sounded solid.
- I like the guard crush mechanic in place of critical finishes. It feels better balanced, in terms of the reward you get.
- The overall impressions I got from others who played it were quite positive, and my overall impression is also quite positive. Not everything's perfect, there are still some annoyances that will certainly be in the final build, but it's nothing that hasn't been in previous games.
- Overall speed feels faster than IV, but definitely not back to II levels.
- Most CEs (throw CEs are exceptions, for example) have extremely quick (though not instant) startup, so once you get a bar, buffering CE in anticipation of your opponent pressing a button looks to be a viable strategy.
- Once the flash for throw CEs happen, you are screwed if you're standing there and in range. Asty's CE did seem to catch basic 8WR, but I didn't get to try and step it.
- You can't quick-step-G, so guarding during quick-step doesn't work.
Specifics:
- I never saw Ivy in an actual whip stance, just plenty of whip moves.
- Natsu: Unable to check 2K hit advantage. Does seem like ABK and BAK are gone. Combos do good damage. 44K flip has more range than I remember, though it's been a while since I used it in IV.
- Tira: 1A (jolly stance) is punishable on guard by Raph's 6B. Only got to try that specific punish w/ Brent's help.
- Siegfried: 3B stance is essentially static, no running that I could make happen. Seems to do noticeably more damage than he used to.
- Viola: Using the orb well for frame traps and combos will be necessary, she'll have a very hard time winning otherwise. Non-orb moves aren't slow, per se, but they're also not generally quite as fast as you might expect. Has some decent tech-crouch moves. She may be at more of a disadvantage on the endless stages, due to her shorter range w/o the orb and no way to corner somebody with orb pressure. Her CE starts wherever the orb is set at the time. Doesn't last quite as long as I thought it would, but enough for some quick 50/50s. Really slow unblockable, probably not viable in a match.
- Nightmare: Feels somewhat different than IV, can't quite say how. CE (when not activated as a counter) does over 2/3 life! Didn't get to check the tracking. Person I did it on was blocking low, so don't know if it's unblockable or just hits mid.
- Lexia: Didn't play her, but did look a little slower than X. Also had more strings into guard-crushes and some feints. Her CE is the weakest, damage-wise, that I've seen.
- Astaroth: Not sure how I feel about him yet. Several moves got speed changes, and with GIs requiring meter, it'll be harder to deal w/ pressure until we get used to the new frames. No quake stun on 22[K], forgot to try 22[K] BE.
- Pyrrah: Still my day 1 main choice, as expected. She has to fight at a slightly closer range overall than Sophie, but thanks to movement changes, that shouldn't be a problem. 4K is great for pressure. The low follow-up to 4[A] is soooo slow, I better not hit anybody here w/ it. Slightly better quake stun frames off 8B+K, at least enough time for 236B follow-up.
System:
- Reasonably generous buffer window, I didn't have any complaints.
- Auto-tech moves still seem to have their quirks, though I didn't get to test stuff like FC 2A.
- Gameplay and movement in general feel pretty smooth.
- Quick-step isn't exactly like SC2 Evade. Quick-step doesn't depend on doing it right before the attack, but to do it, you have to do the double-tap very quickly.
- Easier to get around verticals, though not SC2 easy.
- Did not have any of my horizontals lose to 8WR or step.
- Does not feel like you're playing a 2D game or your feet are stuck in the mud. It doesn't quite match the feel of any of the past iterations, it kinda feels like some new combination of them (mostly good parts).
Obvious disclaimer that my views are definitely not the last word and this isn't the final build and I couldn't test every scenario. Let me know if I missed anything. Anyways, hope y'all enjoyed reading all that.
That said, on to the real draw, SC V. I got a decent number of games in, probably around a dozen. They had four stations setup (not counting the temporary stream setup w/ it as well early Saturday). Daishi was there and taking challengers on the stream, so naturally I decided my first time playing SC V (w/ Pyrrah) had to be on the stream against Daishi. And promptly got bodied by his Patroklus! XD I actually was doing decent by the end, got one round off him and close to a second, just got destroyed the first few rounds having no idea what to expect. After that, I spent some of Saturday and Sunday waiting to play. Long lines at each station, so much that both players only got one game, then win or lose, both players got up.
Alright, general notes/impressions first, then specific answers and observations.
General:
- We did not have the latest build, unfortunately. So no Aeon, Cervy, Yoshi or Xiba.
- Visually, it looks SO. DAMN. GOOD. Makes IV look almost shabby in comparison. Extremely polished.
- Can't say much about the music, because the room was so loud, but as usual hits sounded solid.
- I like the guard crush mechanic in place of critical finishes. It feels better balanced, in terms of the reward you get.
- The overall impressions I got from others who played it were quite positive, and my overall impression is also quite positive. Not everything's perfect, there are still some annoyances that will certainly be in the final build, but it's nothing that hasn't been in previous games.
- Overall speed feels faster than IV, but definitely not back to II levels.
- Most CEs (throw CEs are exceptions, for example) have extremely quick (though not instant) startup, so once you get a bar, buffering CE in anticipation of your opponent pressing a button looks to be a viable strategy.
- Once the flash for throw CEs happen, you are screwed if you're standing there and in range. Asty's CE did seem to catch basic 8WR, but I didn't get to try and step it.
- You can't quick-step-G, so guarding during quick-step doesn't work.
Specifics:
- I never saw Ivy in an actual whip stance, just plenty of whip moves.
- Natsu: Unable to check 2K hit advantage. Does seem like ABK and BAK are gone. Combos do good damage. 44K flip has more range than I remember, though it's been a while since I used it in IV.
- Tira: 1A (jolly stance) is punishable on guard by Raph's 6B. Only got to try that specific punish w/ Brent's help.
- Siegfried: 3B stance is essentially static, no running that I could make happen. Seems to do noticeably more damage than he used to.
- Viola: Using the orb well for frame traps and combos will be necessary, she'll have a very hard time winning otherwise. Non-orb moves aren't slow, per se, but they're also not generally quite as fast as you might expect. Has some decent tech-crouch moves. She may be at more of a disadvantage on the endless stages, due to her shorter range w/o the orb and no way to corner somebody with orb pressure. Her CE starts wherever the orb is set at the time. Doesn't last quite as long as I thought it would, but enough for some quick 50/50s. Really slow unblockable, probably not viable in a match.
- Nightmare: Feels somewhat different than IV, can't quite say how. CE (when not activated as a counter) does over 2/3 life! Didn't get to check the tracking. Person I did it on was blocking low, so don't know if it's unblockable or just hits mid.
- Lexia: Didn't play her, but did look a little slower than X. Also had more strings into guard-crushes and some feints. Her CE is the weakest, damage-wise, that I've seen.
- Astaroth: Not sure how I feel about him yet. Several moves got speed changes, and with GIs requiring meter, it'll be harder to deal w/ pressure until we get used to the new frames. No quake stun on 22[K], forgot to try 22[K] BE.
- Pyrrah: Still my day 1 main choice, as expected. She has to fight at a slightly closer range overall than Sophie, but thanks to movement changes, that shouldn't be a problem. 4K is great for pressure. The low follow-up to 4[A] is soooo slow, I better not hit anybody here w/ it. Slightly better quake stun frames off 8B+K, at least enough time for 236B follow-up.
System:
- Reasonably generous buffer window, I didn't have any complaints.
- Auto-tech moves still seem to have their quirks, though I didn't get to test stuff like FC 2A.
- Gameplay and movement in general feel pretty smooth.
- Quick-step isn't exactly like SC2 Evade. Quick-step doesn't depend on doing it right before the attack, but to do it, you have to do the double-tap very quickly.
- Easier to get around verticals, though not SC2 easy.
- Did not have any of my horizontals lose to 8WR or step.
- Does not feel like you're playing a 2D game or your feet are stuck in the mud. It doesn't quite match the feel of any of the past iterations, it kinda feels like some new combination of them (mostly good parts).
Obvious disclaimer that my views are definitely not the last word and this isn't the final build and I couldn't test every scenario. Let me know if I missed anything. Anyways, hope y'all enjoyed reading all that.
7thfonon
[08] Mercenary
Yeah Lexia is much slower than Xianghua. She doesn't have "just kidding" stance either.
3B is a new move, same purpose... But it's waaaay slower than Xianghua's 3B, but it has more range I think. Lexia's regular B, B feels slow too, but not sure (I can't remember, since I haven't played SC4 in 3 years). While-Rising A, A is now Lexia's 3 A, A. Her wr K is Xiangua's 8wr (one of the diagonal inputs) Kick (That slow low kick attack)... but in this game it's not a low (you can block it high or low). Lexia's wr B is a completely new attack. It evades (I think.... I'm not sure if the guy was out of range or if I actually dodged him), and looks like a funky 6 A+B (I think that's Xianguha's thrust attack in SC4.... right?). X Marks the Spot (Xiangua's 1B, B) is now Lexia's 8wr (one of the diagonal inputs) B, B.
3B is a new move, same purpose... But it's waaaay slower than Xianghua's 3B, but it has more range I think. Lexia's regular B, B feels slow too, but not sure (I can't remember, since I haven't played SC4 in 3 years). While-Rising A, A is now Lexia's 3 A, A. Her wr K is Xiangua's 8wr (one of the diagonal inputs) Kick (That slow low kick attack)... but in this game it's not a low (you can block it high or low). Lexia's wr B is a completely new attack. It evades (I think.... I'm not sure if the guy was out of range or if I actually dodged him), and looks like a funky 6 A+B (I think that's Xianguha's thrust attack in SC4.... right?). X Marks the Spot (Xiangua's 1B, B) is now Lexia's 8wr (one of the diagonal inputs) B, B.
Ceron
[09] Warrior
Thanks, Doug, for getting all that info for us. That's a lot of shit and I'm sure it took a while for you to get all that out, let alone remember all those details. Good shit!
Thanks 7thfonon for the Leixia specifics. I was really curious about her inputs.
I'm really concerned about Leixia's speed. If she gets small disadvantage on block then it might be ok. What character's speed could you compare Leixia to in previous SC games? Perhaps I'm being too greedy here. She has cancels, feints, guard breaks, long range, etc. I mean, as long as the speed drop isn't slower than what they did to Mitsu from SC2 to SC4, I'm good.
I might be playin' Tira or Pyrrha.
Thanks 7thfonon for the Leixia specifics. I was really curious about her inputs.
I'm really concerned about Leixia's speed. If she gets small disadvantage on block then it might be ok. What character's speed could you compare Leixia to in previous SC games? Perhaps I'm being too greedy here. She has cancels, feints, guard breaks, long range, etc. I mean, as long as the speed drop isn't slower than what they did to Mitsu from SC2 to SC4, I'm good.
I might be playin' Tira or Pyrrha.
songohanx
[09] Warrior
Will, Leixia feels really good. I don't think you will be disappointed in the end. She isn't the speed demon that X was, but her speed is above average compared to most characters, and her range is pretty good. Her 8WR2_8 B (it's back to the twirly shit from SC1/2) still launches on normal hit, seems safe, and she can super off of it. Also, Leix always seems to have meter somehow. I don't even know. D: