R.I.P. Thread

Ishimaru Jinrai said:
Suicide is horrible, living is the winners way, but at the same time, taking your own life is not being a coward. The Japanese Samurai believed death was better than dishonor, and the wider the cut across their abdomen the greater their honor was. In their culture honor was everything, and losing their honor to them was worse than the pain of death.
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I wouldn't compare a samurai to somebody who decides to jump off a building because it's better than admitting they need some help. Samurais try. They train for years, they fought in battles, and they fought to win in war and politics expressly because they didn't want to die. People who commit suicide are expressly deciding they don't want to try. Nor was the whole, "samurai death-cult" an entirely honorable/ admirable thing. You sound like you look up to it but you really shouldn't. It resulted in terrible atrocities and needless loss of life during WWII.

As for how I feel about suicide? No, really, unless you're diving on a grenade or something taking your life IS being a coward. It's disgusting. there are people out there who find out they have a terminal disease and they decide to go out and do wonderful things before they die. Think of all the good you could do if not for the whole world than just for a few people in a year. Think of all the people who have put effort into helping you out in your life, who've loved you and wanted the best for you. Parents, teachers, friends. Even if you're all alone now there had to be somebody at some time who struggled to help you out even if it's a social worker or something. And if not for them then think of your ancestors who had to endure plagues and hunger and invasions from shit heads who wanted to murder them to take their stuff, and here you are sitting in an air conditioned room with ice-cold beverages and indoor plumbing at your finger tips, to say nothing of *double take* the internet and YOU are the one that can't go on? It boggles the mind. WHAT A PUSSY. If your ancestors who lived every day in fear that some unwashed asshole was going to set fire to their homes (or worried if their next drink of water was going to kill them) could see you now they'ed probably slap you. Then they'ed ask how your teeth got so clean. "It's my life" well guess what pal, really it's not. It's the life you owe to everybody who ever gave a damn about you. Taking your life seems like a betrayal to me. You really can't say it's not cowardly when there are so many church, governmental and non-profit secular institutions that will help if if you should only but ask.

Jett Jackson, shucks I've heard of him, that guy was a well-to do actor. He was two years younger than me, he had a full head of hair, he was on a currently filming TV show. Seriously, the articles all say he had family and friends. What was his problem? My life absolutely sucks and I'm still kicking. Couldn't he find some kind of fucking silver lining? Stupid asshole. That poor, poor, stupid asshole. I feel bad for people who commit suicide, I often ask myself how bad off they had to be, didn't they have any friends, anyone they could talk to? I honestly hope I'd never be there. And despite how all that stuff in the last paragraph might look I could understand somebody committing suicide if they're gravely ill and bed ridden, or in terrible pain. It looks like Jett was none of those things.

It pains me to say it, even though so many people I like are on the other side, Ishimaru, Chuck, Yoshi, BlackDragon, and I can see both sides buuut personally I have to agree with Fenris. I'm kind of shocked so many people are coming out in support of suicide to be honest. Is that because you're actually for suicide or against disrespecting Jett/ peole who commit it?

The_Landslide said:
That answer is a little too convenient. The problem is that some people lack the support structure or even medication capable of calming urges such as these,
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But Jett had money. It's not like he couldn't afford medication if he'd actually sought it out. Enough people cared about him and were aware of his condition that somebody sent a "well-being" request to the police.
 
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Ghengis_John said:
I wouldn't compare a samurai to somebody who decides to jump off a building because it's better than admitting they need some help. Samurais try. They train for years, they fought in battles, and they fought to win in war and politics expressly because they didn't want to die. People who commit suicide are expressly deciding they don't want to try. Nor was the whole, "samurai death-cult" an entirely honorable/ admirable thing. You sound like you look up to it but you really shouldn't. It resulted in terrible atrocities and needless loss of life during WWII.
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Tell me Ghengis, if I told you to fight a war, and most likely you won't come back alive, but if you don't fight, the enemy will probably kill all your loved ones, what would you do? Would you be over come by fear and shout "I... I... I DON'T WANT TO DIE!!!"? Or would you look back at your family, and realize there are much more important things in your life, and things you value more than even your own life? Something you hold so dear, it's worth protecting no matter what? That's, what TRUE honor is.

The Samurai were such formidable opponents because they had no fear of death. Fear is what gets you killed on the battlefield, and even historians refer to it as "the poisonous emotion". Those who expect to live are mortal, but those expecting death, their spirit cannot be broken, that's what makes them so strong.

To your statement about them dealing with stress, and taking their lives as pathetic as it may be, for reasons being their own... You have to understand, not everyone is a 100% fully functional, fully stable individual of clear mental capacity. I'd never take my own life, because I'm happy, and I realize the utter pointless stupidity of doing such a thing. But other people either have depression, or are over come by emotion, and in that critical moment in their life, they do something foolish they can't undo. Perhaps if you could talk to Jet after he failed at killing himself, perhaps 5 years down the road he would say "I was a real idiot for thinking that..." But at the time, his emotions over took his rational side, and he did something tragic upon that critical moment...

The word "coward" is not the word you should use, the word you seek is "irrational". But like all irrational people, with rationality, reason, and care, you can prevent them from doing such things. =]
 
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Ghengis_John said:
I'm kind of shocked so many people are coming out in support of suicide to be honest. Is that because you're actually for suicide or against disrespecting Jett/ peole who commit it?
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It's because we're primarily emotional creatures, not rational ones.

We're not happy unless we feel happy. We're not depressed unless we feel depressed.

If one feel that there's no way out of their emotional turmoil other than death, they'll act regardless. It can blur how their friends and family intervene to prevent that from happening, but if it's to prevent themselves from getting emotionally hurt as a result, then it's interference (enter-fear-ence).

And why would one interfere? To prevent the act from emotionally affecting them.

Why would they want to prevent the act from affecting them? Because they are afraid of the emotional effect.

What emotional effect are they afraid of? Sadness.

Why are they afraid of feeling sad? Because they don't know what do with it one it occurs.

Why don't they know what to do with it once it occurs? Because they don't know how to take responsibility for their emotions.

And if they don't know how to take responsibility for how they feel (and so believe there's nothing that can be done about it, hence the mistaken idea we're primarily rational creatures), it'll radiate in how they perceive other people, i.e. they aren't responsible for their emotions either.

And this perception is also what drives a suicidal person to commit the act. So we've gone full circle, basically.

How can I condemn someone who commits suicide, knowing full well that the only reason someone with that kind of stature would do something like that is because they believe the emotional hurt is all there is and always will be, there's nothing can be done about it, and they'll there never achieve happiness again?

How?
 
Ghengis_John said:
It pains me to say it, even though so many people I like are on the other side, Ishimaru, Chuck, Yoshi, BlackDragon, and I can see both sides buuut personally I have to agree with Fenris. I'm kind of shocked so many people are coming out in support of suicide to be honest. Is that because you're actually for suicide or against disrespecting Jett/ peole who commit it?

....

But Jett had money. It's not like he couldn't afford medication if he'd actually sought it out. Enough people cared about him and were aware of his condition that somebody sent a "well-being" request to the police.
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I'm in no way in support of suicide. I don't think it's honorable, intelligent or that it even makes sense in 99 percent of the situations where it occurs. What I am in support of is honoring the dead and not jumping to conclusions about people's lives. Money will make you happy in some ways, miserable in others, and the same goes with fame. Having plenty of friends and family doesn't mean a perfect support system, we don't know what went down in his life and we'll probably never know.

But what we do know is that people don't kill themselves for no reason unless they end up in the Darwin awards. David Foster Wallace killed himself despite being loved and revered by millions, and was at a point in his career when he would never have to work again. He had access to medication, and was taking it, and he still hung himself. At the end of the day, if you are damaged mentally you WILL find a way to hurt yourself, and some people only need to try it once for it to take.

I agree and disagree with your stance at the same time. But have you ever talked to someone with profound depression? Not just some highschool kid who hates everything because they're young, someone who has been depressed for years and is wracking their brain for some relief. You probably didn't know, because they hide it very well. Because it's all they know.
 
Alright, definitely a constructive conversation, but if we don't get back to what this thread is for, something might actually happen to it.
 
CorrectDefense said:
Alright, definitely a constructive conversation, but if we don't get back to what this thread is for, something might actually happen to it.
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Well I don't think we need to actively be discussing who died, or RIP to a certain thing necessarily, but the discussion of someone taking their life and the mentality behind it is probably as relevant as it gets to the RIP topic.. =]
 
Ghengis_John said:
Is that because you're actually for suicide or against disrespecting Jett/ peole who commit it?
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I can't bring myself to say the most epic and wise thing. After typing this, I pretty much biased to a fault.

Yes I see FenrisZero's point, but it's just out of line. Even if Jet was an idiot to take his own life, I feel spitting on his grave isn't ideal. The only thing suicide does to me is make me angry and sad. Angry because I have many things to say, yet I won't get an answer from a corpse. Sad because it's not really glorious to lose a life.

Even though we all will meet our end, someone like Jett could of have been my mother who still to this day is fighting to get well in the hospital. For them to just commit suicide would hurt me greatly as a person. I'd rather cry out of sadness when someone passes away naturally than someone who just takes their life.

Anyone can logic around suicide and stuff, but I detest cold comments in fragile situations like these. I much rather hear things on opinion because obviously if one posts here, they have to say something to honor the dead unless they're just cold as ice and want something trivial like unneeded attention.
 
KokoYoshi said:
I can't bring myself to say the most epic and wise thing. After typing this, I pretty much biased to a fault.

Yes I see FenrisZero's point, but it's just out of line. Even if Jet was an idiot to take his own life, I feel spitting on his grave isn't ideal. The only thing suicide does to me is make me angry and sad. Angry because I have many things to say, yet I won't get an answer from a corpse. Sad because it's not really glorious to lose a life.

Even though we all will meet our end, someone like Jett could of have been my mother who still to this day is fighting to get well in the hospital. For them to just commit suicide would hurt me greatly as a person. I'd rather cry out of sadness when someone passes away naturally than someone who just takes their life.

Anyone can logic around suicide and stuff, but I detest cold comments in fragile situations like these. I much rather hear things on opinion because obviously if one posts here, they have to say something to honor the dead unless they're just cold as ice and want something trivial like unneeded attention.
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Why cant we use this thread for the purpose it was intended for and has had 329 messages pertaining to that same thing?
 
Ghengis_John said:
No way, I mean he hadn't been on tv as much but he died? Guess I better google the details.
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Wow...he was flippin 92 years old. I remember being a small kid watching them commercials. I always thought the jingle was catchy.

"If you want a brand new car...go see Cal."

And his "dog" was usually anything but a dog. It couldve been a monkey, and camel, a llama, tigers, lions, and bears (oh my).
 
Hot Rod Dave said:
Wow...he was flippin 92 years old. I remember being a small kid watching them commercials. I always thought the jingle was catchy.

"If you want a brand new car...go see Cal."

And his "dog" was usually anything but a dog. It couldve been a monkey, and camel, a llama, tigers, lions, and bears (oh my).
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I always liked the jingle, when I was a kid the commercials were on all the time. KTLA seemed to show the most of them, and since I would watch the action block of shows like "Hunter" that they had on with my dad I'd see them a lot. I missed it when he stopped doing the menagerie thing. I remember he rode Shamu once, lol.
 
KokoYoshi said:
I can't bring myself to say the most epic and wise thing. After typing this, I pretty much biased to a fault.

Yes I see FenrisZero's point, but it's just out of line. Even if Jet was an idiot to take his own life, I feel spitting on his grave isn't ideal. The only thing suicide does to me is make me angry and sad. Angry because I have many things to say, yet I won't get an answer from a corpse. Sad because it's not really glorious to lose a life.

Even though we all will meet our end, someone like Jett could of have been my mother who still to this day is fighting to get well in the hospital. For them to just commit suicide would hurt me greatly as a person. I'd rather cry out of sadness when someone passes away naturally than someone who just takes their life.

Anyone can logic around suicide and stuff, but I detest cold comments in fragile situations like these. I much rather hear things on opinion because obviously if one posts here, they have to say something to honor the dead unless they're just cold as ice and want something trivial like unneeded attention.
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Top drawer, my friend. Top. Drawer.
 
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