Super High-Level In Your Face TIERLIST!!!

I know I'm late 2 da partay but, seriously, I can't find any tierlist (das not a wurd lol) thread that I can post in and I never got to share my opinion. If possible, I want this to be a discussion because I want to talk about everyone's perspective and actually like to hear this stuff (so, if we can, no close, please). I mean, I know people get angry for whatever reason but that's just another spice of life, right?

I'd like it if, rather than posting you guyseses own that you criticize mine. Now, I understand that might not always be the case but I'd at least like for the topic to start off that way so that I can give a chance to give some reasoning. But, please, be direct in your criticism and questioning; it's much harder to answer the question, "Why is *X* here?" as opposed to answering, "Why is *X* here and not here?" or "Why is *X" here instead of *Y*?"

Well, without further delay, my own personal tierlist! =o

A:

Cervantes
Alpha Patroklos
Mitsurugi
Algol
Tira
Viola

A-: Pyrrha

B+: Patroklos
Natsu
Yoshimitsu

B: Nightmare
Siegfried
Pyrrha Omega
Hilde
Voldo
Ezio
Xiba
Astaroth
Ivy
Aeon
Maxi
Z.W.E.I.

C: Raphael
Leixia

D: Dampierre

I also want to make a spreadsheet to see how much what I think matches up with what I think (know what I mean)? So, if someone can help me understand...how to actually make a spreadsheet, it'd be much appreciated!

 

I really don't think of Hilde as that amazing cause of one word: Whiffing. I've had all sorts of moves whiff with her randomly. 3A, 66A, 3B BE, 66B BE, C4 B, C1 B, C3 B, JMP B, 4B, and 44B to name a few. The stupidest whiffs are her CE whiffs at long range(happened twice to me), grab whiffs(steppable), 22_88B whiffs and C2 B whiffs in combos. So frustrating. She is to whiffy to be top tier. Plus she cant punish well(guard punishes oc), seemingly nonexistent guard damage, and has some of the crappiest TJing attacks(JMP A and 44B are decent-ish though) in the game.

Its all a matter of knowledge, you have to identify situations where you know you will whiff and do something else there. Just takes time. Her Ce is step'able by every character but aeon. Like i said its a matter of knowledge. When you fight certain characters you have to know that if you hit them at a angle with 22 88 b your c2b will whiff. The thing is if you play online always it gona be tough to see the S tier i put. All those characters take alot of time and skill and effort. And in usa there is no tournament hilda. SO most people dont even think loop is control' able which it is.

 

I think it's safe to input tier lists, now that we're this far in the game. I know my list has some changes from what I previously posted. I'll go ahead and post my tier list-

Stier:
Viola
Alpha Patroklos
Cervantes

ATier:
Patroklos
Mitsurugi
Pyrrha
Natsu
Omega Pyrrha
Astaroth
Algol

BTier:
Tira
Ivy
Nightmare
Siegfried
Voldo
Xiba
Hilde
Aeon

CTier:
Yoshimitsu
Maxi
Ezio
Leixia
Raphael
Z.W.E.I.
Dampierre

 

I think it's safe to input tier lists, now that we're this far in the game. I know my list has some changes from what I previously posted. I'll go ahead and post my tier list-

Stier:
Viola
Alpha Patroklos
Cervantes

ATier:
Patroklos
Mitsurugi
Pyrrha
Natsu
Omega Pyrrha
Astaroth
Algol

BTier:
Tira
Ivy
Nightmare
Siegfried
Voldo
Xiba
Hilde
Aeon

CTier:
Yoshimitsu
Maxi
Ezio
Leixia
Raphael
Z.W.E.I.
Dampierre

I like this tier list besides hilda placement. pretty much same as i think.

 

Its all a matter of knowledge, you have to identify situations where you know you will whiff and do something else there. Just takes time. Her Ce is step'able by every character but aeon. Like i said its a matter of knowledge. When you fight certain characters you have to know that if you hit them at a angle with 22 88 b your c2b will whiff. The thing is if you play online always it gona be tough to see the S tier i put. All those characters take alot of time and skill and effort. And in usa there is no tournament hilda. SO most people dont even think loop is control' able which it is.

Yes I know that if you're at an angle something might whiff and that has happened to me but I'm talking about flat out stupid whiffs that make exactly no sense whatsoever. However, I didn't know that her CE was steppable outside of point blank range. Also, what direction? Both?

CTier:
Yoshimitsu

Care to explain why you put Yoshi in C tier?

 

B: Nightmare
Siegfried
Pyrrha Omega
Hilde
Voldo
Ezio
Xiba
Astaroth
Ivy
Aeon
Maxi
Z.W.E.I.

Why Astaroth and Omega so low? I personally see them above the rest of these chars.

CTier:
Yoshimitsu
Maxi
Ezio
Leixia
Raphael
Z.W.E.I.
Dampierre

Why Yoshi and Maxi in low tier? Maxi i can see, although i think he should be placed higher.

 

Yoshimitsu has a huge problem with spacing. He lacks effective, safe horizontals from mid-long range. His biggest highlight as a character runs off his oki. To KND, he doesn't exactly have the safest tools for that. I will mention his FC 3K- since it's a great move, but outside of that move, he lacks good mix ups.

Maybe his ringout game may tinker his position- but I feel his overall un-safeness, lack of effective mid-long horizontals, lack of a mix up game, make him a CTier character in my personal opinion.

As for Maxi... roughly, he has the same faults from the previous installment. I think his damage keeps him viable- but everyone in this game has damage. He's straight forward to anti, and the risk/reward is usually in said opponents player.

I'll also add that just because they're CTier on my list, I don't discount them as tournament viable. I think the game mechanics allow any character to win if played correctly.

 

Regarding matchups:

Easy question: Which is the most lopsided matchup?
Hard question: Outside of mirrors, which match is the most 5:5 ? Like 5.000 : 5.0000 between two different characters?

 

Regarding matchups:

Easy question: Which is the most lopsided matchup?
Hard question: Outside of mirrors, which match is the most 5:5 ? Like 5.000 : 5.0000 between two different characters?

In my opinion, Astaroth VS Mitsurugi is a 7:3 match up, Mitsurugi's favor.

For a 5:5...
Pyrrha VS Siegfried
Pyrrha VS Patroklos
Astaroth VS Siegfried

 

Could someone breakdown why aPat is top tier. I know he has some great tools to work with but he also lacks some important tools as well. Most notably safe mid step kill. I too agree he is top tier just curious why others place him so high.

Also I think it's important when discussing match ups that which stage the fight takes place on should have some sway over the matchup. Ring outs and wall splats play a very important part of this game and cant be overlooked. Nightmare can ring your ass out from mid screen on smaller stages so it's got to be taken into consideration.

 

Could someone breakdown why aPat is top tier. I know he has some great tools to work with but he also lacks some important tools as well. Most notably safe mid step kill. I too agree he is top tier just curious why others place him so high.

-Amazing mix-up game (One of the best in the game)
-Ridiculous damage from safe options, some of which don't even require meter (And even if they do, it's only one BE)
-Second best throws in the game
-Very safe
-i8 55 damage CE (With 3 frames of invincibility), which can combo off of his 2A
-i12 70+ damage punisher with two chances to clean hit
-i14 100+ damage BE punisher
-One of the best ring-out games in the game
-One of the best post-GI games in the game
-Excellent rushdown
-Good range
-Very good wall combos
-Extremely powerful fast, safe mids
-45 damage unseeable low that ROs and W!s, and leads to good wake-up on hit

I main aPat and he is easily one of my least favorite characters to fight. The only reason people don't constantly cry broken on aPat is because there are only like 3 people in the world that can use him at a high level. Also, while he lacks a traditional mid step kill (Unless you count 4K and 3A), his 236~3B and 236~6B have bizarre tracking on them, and will fairly often hit people stepping. The lack of a real mid step killer is only really a problem against characters that have strong TC moves available from 8WR (Pyrrha, I'm looking at you). All of this being said, I still think Viola (And possibly even others) is better than him.

 

I agree but why do you think more top players don't use him? I know he relies on his JF's but their not that difficult. Why ain't Xeph or SU or other top players not using this dude in tourneys?

 

Because no one is a robot except Woahhzz.

 

I agree but why do you think more top players don't use him? I know he relies on his JF's but their not that difficult. Why ain't Xeph or SU or other top players not using this dude in tourneys?

Maybe because some people want to use characters that they like and not just characters that are good. Wow.

 

I agree but why do you think more top players don't use him? I know he relies on his JF's but their not that difficult. Why ain't Xeph or SU or other top players not using this dude in tourneys?

Woahhzz and LostProvidence have used aPat in tournament. Also, Maxou has done damage- taking a major if I recall correctly.

I don't use him because I don't enjoy execution-heavy characters. Also, what Paranormal stated. I personally have to like the character to attempt learning.

 

Wow? WTF does that mean? With so much money being thrown around going to and from tourneys plus the thousands of dollars in prizes. Is it so much of a stretch to assume that one would want to give himself the best chance to win by picking the top tier character? I'm sure there's a lot of Raphael players out there. How many did you see on the EVO stream?

I can respect that Xeph. Was just curious.

 

Wow? WTF does that mean? With so much money being thrown around going to and from tourneys plus the thousands of dollars in prizes. Is it so much of a stretch to assume that one would want to give himself the best chance to win by picking the top tier character? I'm sure there's a lot of Raphael players out there. How many did you see on the EVO stream?

How many people have you seen win major tournaments because they deliberately picked up a character they knew was one of the best in the game?

 

How many people have you seen win major tournaments because they deliberately picked up a character they knew was one of the best in the game?

I'm looking at you SC 4 Ivy. Everybody and their brother was using this over powered tramp lol

 

I recommend just sticking to discussion about tiers. There's no need for hostility.

 

Was I hostile? My apologies if it seemed that way. I was just responding to that semi sarcastic "wow" comment

 

Well alpha isn't fun to fight thanks to synraii showing me what he was capable of....lets see rugi and cervantes my god are not fun to fight at ALL...F**k them big time...and xeph is right about yoshi and I been maining yoshi since sc4. Spacing just gives him big trouble even if he properly spaces himself the lost of his old 6A and 44A+b were big.