Valid reasons to warrant a Ban.

I say, you don't HAVE to buy Vader/Yoda, but if you don't, you do so at your own risk. Either pay 5 dollars, or go play with someone who DOES have the character, and just spend about 20 mins learning about them that way. The star wars characters are pretty easy to learn how to fight after all.
 
iKotomi said:
This is a typical example of scrub mentality.

a)Bad matchups do not warrant bans. Fighting games have had horrible matchups ever since Street Fighter 2.

b)It doesn't matter how complicated a strategy is for it to be good, or be better than another simple strategy. It's not the player's job to make the game look entertaining, it's the player's job to dissect the game and best increase his chances of winning.

I'm not picking on you in particular, its just you happened to have a representative post that pretty much resonates with everyone else in support of a ban and you made a convenient list.

The fact of the matter is, yoda does not destroy the game. People who pick yoda will not win a lot after all the parlor tricks are learned. The number of people playing yoda and actually succeeding with him will not be numerous enough to make the game degenerate into this stupid low mid fest that everyone in support of a ban is crying about. Sure he has different mechanics. So what? He's part of the game, and you can beat him with in game tools. That's all that matters.

My main problem is, where do you draw the line with banning a character just because he's "different"? Why not ban Sophie 236B? Nobody else has a move like it. Or stuff like Taki's A because its faster than everyone else's. Or Talim's 33A in SC2, since nobody had a move that tech jumped, crouched, side stepped and was fast and safe. I argue that these things are just as bannable as Yoda is. The reason why is the ability to hit a high or throw is not something that you deserve, its just something that's there to exploit. Throws in fighting games are strong, but people use them because it allows them to win, not because it is something that is mandatory to use if you are good. Especially in a case where you don't need throws to win at all...
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Sophitia is a horrid matchup for my main. Yet it's not a stupid matchup. My argument is that the matchup is stupid.

True , it's not the player's job to be flashy. Just look at my KOF vids and see me grind that game to a halt to win tournies. That said, it's the tournament organizer's job to make sure a scene doesn't devolve into that shit.

Again, I do respect your opinion- and I see your logic. I just don't fully agree with it. I've never been a full subscriber of radical "Play to Win" ism, as Sirlin has been misquoted into. BTW not everyone who supports a ban is a scrub. Some of them can even win tournies. I've only entered a couple of locals, but I've done well in those. I don't have the time due to my job to fully commit to the tourney scene, but I can play locals.

Do I think the entire game would devolve into that, no. I could see counterpicking though taking certain chars out of the game entirely. I've never been a fan of matchups being determined at the char select screen. WIth everyone except Yoda, I feel that no match is won at char select. It is with Yoda.
 
I still have yet to see a convincing argument why any character (Yoda, Algol... hell, I'll even include guest and custom characters) should be banned from any tournament.
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Guest characters are banned for their hitboxes. None of them have a unique movelist that the primary characters don't already have, and some have larger weapon hitboxes (Scherazeradadedeaherade) and smaller grab reach (Ashlotte). Same goes with custom characters changing normal hitboxes.

This thread is filled with pro keep every thing the way it is people. You all agree how nice...so what?
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Yes, because creating polls that T.O's are unlikely to ever consider, and including votes from non-tourney going players are significantly more useful.
 
When a 3d fighter where people regularly use about 25-40 moves on the movelist devolves into a situation where it goes into move spam. I know when I fight Yoda I pretty much only use 2-3 moves, to do anything else is stupid.

It's not a function of character balance.
 
arstal said:
Why is it ridiculous? I'll pay $100 to go to a tournmanet, because I get $100+ of utility from it.

I won't pay $5 for Vader, cause I view having him in the game as negative utility. Therefore Vader is wasting money for me. I'm sure others feel that way as well.

Utility= economic term that roughly means "Value"
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Its all nice and all to throw out economic terms, but at least think things through. When you buy or don't buy vader, the utility to you is more than just whether or not you care for the character.

If you care about winning, there's the whole being able to actually practice against the character aspect of it... Not having access to a tournament legal character is negative utility to a person that actually goes to tournaments. Most tournament players will just suck up the 5 dollars. They pay enough for the game itself, sticks, money at arcades, travel, etc. The marginal cost of 5 dollars is nothing compared to what they are used to spending, and if 5 dollars means playing the same game that you everyone else is competing in...
 
Well it simple for me.

They break the game with overpowerd combos/dmg output

Do something that is almost impossbile to get out of,i.e(infs)

And that all from me I guess.

edit: Where the hell do these tags for the threads be coming from?
 
arstal said:
When a 3d fighter where people regularly use about 25-40 moves on the movelist devolves into a situation where it goes into move spam. I know when I fight Yoda I pretty much only use 2-3 moves, to do anything else is stupid.

It's not a function of character balance.
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ROFL how can you possibly use that many moves in this game regularly? I know it depends on your character but quite a few can be played very well as 5 move whores.
 
arstal said:
When a 3d fighter where people regularly use about 25-40 moves on the movelist devolves into a situation where it goes into move spam. I know when I fight Yoda I pretty much only use 2-3 moves, to do anything else is stupid.

It's not a function of character balance.
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Really? Maybe I'm totally wrong but I'd be willing to say 90% of the characters in SC4 can be played at a high level using 15 moves max (and even thats pushing it)
 
To beat Yoda just pick Apprentice or Taki...attack him then just jump away from him...lalalala. until time runs out. I could almost do it with Asta's 9B+K...lol when a mouse chases a cat.
 
arstal said:
When a 3d fighter where people regularly use about 25-40 moves on the movelist devolves into a situation where it goes into move spam. I know when I fight Yoda I pretty much only use 2-3 moves, to do anything else is stupid.

It's not a function of character balance.
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Hello, have you played Soul Calibur 2?
 
Tiamat said:
ROFL how can you possibly use that many moves in this game regularly? I know it depends on your character but quite a few can be played very well as 5 move whores.
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I don't like 5 move characters, as my 3d background is more VF then SC. In VF5 you literally have to know how to use every move, except for about 5-10 joke moves.

Also , isn't saying that characters are 5 move whores kinda slamming SC?
 
Personally I don't like VF (though I used to) but that's a different story.

Saying there are 5 move whore characters in this game is kinda slamming SC I guess, but it's not like it destroys the game or anything. Namco's constant nerfage of good moves only makes people more liable to latch onto and abuse what few good moves their character(s) have left.
 
Just to toss in my two cents, I think OOFMATIC presented a very persuasive argument on the issue of banning characters in general. Being new to the whole 8WR scene (yet not so much for caliburforums), I was quite taken aback by DINO's ridiculous response and subsequent antics. Taking an objective perspective, it seems reasonable to presume that he's generally a self-righteous asshat who regularly resorts to ad hominem attacks. (DINO, if you read that and are at all offended, keep in mind that this is purely objective, and maybe you should reevaluate the way you conduct yourself) But maybe if I spent more time here, I would have already known this.

Getting more to the point, I think that the people responsible on the national level should really take another look at the issue of banned characters. The preemptive insta-ban should really only be allowed in extreme cases of obvious brokenness.

I would add more to it, but OOF and others who have commented thus far have put it fairly well (that and I've written countless pages on the other forum on this very topic). I think there's enough of an argument and a sufficient reasonable backing behind it to where the powers-that-be should listen. I think it would be beneficial for both the community at large and the game in general if the authorities in the matter reevaluated their original, rushed, and preemptive decision in light of new evidence and experience and got back to us.

But that's just what I think.
 
Millionz said:
Really? Maybe I'm totally wrong but I'd be willing to say 90% of the characters in SC4 can be played at a high level using 15 moves max (and even thats pushing it)
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15 moves max? I play as Siegfried, and I may spam 3B, but I sure as hell make use of nearly my entire movelist, except for B6, B4, SRSH A, agA, and 4BBB. A match with Yoda basically destroys my entire game and forces me to spam little more than B, 3B, SCH B, 6B, 1AA, 66B, and SSH AA. The only possible way to beat a skilled Yoda is by using critical finishes.
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
15 moves max? I play as Siegfried, and I may spam 3B, but I sure as hell make use of nearly my entire movelist, except for B6, B4, SRSH A, agA, and 4BBB. A match with Yoda basically destroys my entire game and forces me to spam little more than B, 3B, SCH B, 6B, 1AA, 66B, and SSH AA. The only possible way to beat a skilled Yoda is by using critical finishes.
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You should use less of the movelist, and definitely incorporate agA, B6, and B4.

If your using stuff like BBB, B2A, and A+B, those really aren't great moves.
 
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