Viola Frame Data Discussion

Note, any moves without W/O or N/O stay the same regardless of if orb is set or not.

Key:

N/O = No Orb W/O = With Orb BT = Back Turned FC = Full Crouch WS = While Standing

Data is in this order:

Move, Frames till Impact, On block, On hit.

A moves

W/O AAB i12 -8,-10,-18 | +4,+6,-2
N/O AAB i12 -8,-10,+5 | +4,+6,+6
6AA i17 -6,-16 | 0,0
6AB i17 -6,-4 | 0,+13
3A i15 -8 +2
2A i13 -6 +8
1A i27 -20 +3
W/O 4A i18 -13 -5
N/O 4A i18 -8 +1

B moves

W/O BBB i14 -8, -5,-13 | +2,+4,-2
N/O BBB i14 -8, -5, +8 | +2,+4,+8
6B i16 -6 +6
3B i18 -14 LNC
W/O 2B i14 -8 +2
N/O 2B i14 -- --
1B i25 -20 +4
4B i21 -9 STN

K Moves

K i13 -8 +2
6K i20 -4 KND
3K i16 -7 +7
2K i15 -14 -2
1K i18 -16 -2
4K i16 -10 +2

A+B Moves

W/O A+BA i21 -14,-18 | +1,-11
N/O A+BAB i21 -- --
W/O 6A+B i15 -19 -16
W/O 6(A+B) i15 -- --
N/O 6A+B i18 0 KND
N/O 6(A+B) i18 -- KND
W/O 2A+B i29 +9 KND
N/O 2A+B i25 -19 KND
N/O 2(A+B) i60 +31 KND
1A+B i33 -21 KND
9A+B i19 -23 KND
W/O 4A+B i35 -2 +6
N/O 4A+B i35 -- +17

B+K Moves

W/O 6B+K i19 -1 +8
N/O 4B+KB -- +8 +8

FC Moves

FC A i12 -6 +8
W/O FC B i14 -8 +2
N/O FC B i14 -8 +2
FC K i14 -14 -2

WS Moves

WS A i18 -14 -2
WS B i16 -8 +4
WS K i20 -2 +4

Jumping moves

9A i31 -8 +4
W/O 9B i29 -8 +4
N/O 9B i29 -18 KND
W/O 9K i24 -- KND
N/O 9K i24 -7 +5

8wayrun A moves

66AAB i18 -11,-6,-6 | -1, 2,KND
W/O 33/88A i16 -14 0
N/O 33/88A i16 -18 KND
W/O 22/88AB i20 -10 0
N/O 22/99AB i20 -14 +6
W/O 44AB i20 -20,-14 +2,KND
N/O 44AB i20 -20,-18 +2,KND

8wayrun B moves

66B i24 -13 +3
33/99B i25 -13 LNC
33/99(B) i32 -7 LNC
22/88B i17 -7 +4
44B i19 -14 KND

8wayrun K moves
66K i19 -9 +5
66(K) i19 -9 +5
33/99K i17 -13 KND
W/O 22/88KB i24 -13,-25 | -1,-11
N/O 22/88KB i24 -13,+8 | -1, +9
44K i23 -15 0

Simultaneous 8wayrun moves

W/O 66A+BB i22 -8,-18 | +2,+1
N/O 66A+BB i22 -16,-22 | -6,-8
W/O 22/88A+B i27 -9 KND
N/O 22/88A+B i36 -9 KND
44A+B i76 KND KND
N/O 22/88B+K i43 +9 +9

Running Moves

Run K i21 -22 KND

Throws

All i17

N/O A+G leaves you at +19
N/O B+G leaves you at +5
N/O Backthrow leaves you at +27

Back turned moves

BT A i15 -10 +2
BT FC A i17 -6 +8
BT B i17 -6 +4
BT FC B i17 -10 +2
BT K i15 -8 +2
BT FC K i17 -14 -2
BT B+K i21 -2 STN

Orb Recalls

B+K i31 +10 +9
6B+K i65 -- --
2B+K i55 -- --
BT 2B+K i55 -- --

Brave Edge

N/O A+B BE i21 -7 LNC
N/O 44A BE i20 -- KND
N/O 22/88B BE i17 -- KND
N/O 66K BE i19 -7 KND
N/O B+K BE i55 -- LNC
N/O 2B+K BE i32 KND
N/O BT 2B+K BE i33 -- KND

Critical Edge

236236A+B+K i23 -- --

Good stuff Destinizish! Question though: it looks like a lot of the moves are actually at better frame advantage on block...and that doesn't really make sense. Am I misunderstanding something?

I actually don't see a case like that. Block is listed before hit. In the case of strings, it's set out by hit. So for example

N/O AAB i12 -8,-10,+5 | +4,+6,+6

Means A is -8 on block, +4 on hit.

AA is -10 on block, +6 on hit

AAB is +5 on block, +6 on hit.

This was the part that was throwing me off. I thought that meant frame data with orb | frame data without orb. Thanks for the clarification. One more question? i# is how many frames elapse before the move hits, right? Like startup frames in Street Fighter?

Yep, they're impact frames. It's the number of frames before the move impacts.

Just finished the movelist

Thanks again Destinizish!

This frame data is depressing. Especially if you factor JG possibilities in.

N/O AAB i12 -8,-10,+5 | +4,+6,+6

What does the notation after the | symbol represent?
Disclaimer: I'm new at reading frame data, so sorry if noob question.

The | is only there to separate the strings visually. When I write

N/O AAB i12 -8 -10 +5 +4 +6 +6 it looks awful. So basically, commas separate hits of the string, the | is separating on block from on hit.

How it looks if I listed the entire string separately:

N/O A i12 -8 +4
N/O AA i12 -10 +6
N/O AAB i12 +5 +6

So yeah. The first number is the first hit of the string, etc.

So the above says that in that 3 hit string, if it is stopped at 2, I would be at a disadvantage of -10 franes if the attack was blocked, and a +6 advantage if the attack lands? What does that mean exactly, that I will have 6 frames to react as my opponent is going through an animation because they were hit by my attack?

it means you can do something six frames faster than your opponent, where as if it is a negative the opponent can attack you faster.

A +6 advantage means you shave off 6 frames for your next attack, in the simplest terms. Your opponent has to wait 6 frames before he can execute an attack. It is interesting because I learned way back when frame data came out in SC2 that it is not the opponent that matters but your execution impact that has 6 frames shaved. No I have no idea why.

If you are -13 on block, it means you have to wait 13 frames before blocking. Thus for 13 frames you are vulnerable to any move that is i13 or less that is done by the opponent if he attacks you during that time (and knows about the frame disadvantage). Since most normal A's are at i10-i13 you can see already how unsafe -13 is, let alone -17 (which usually means free launcher).

So if I wanted to improve Viola's offensive capability, I should focus more on moves that create the least amount of negative advantage when blocked, and those that take little time to initialize. Sound about right?

there's something missing from simultaneous 8way run moves

W/O i27 -9 KND
N/O i36 -9 KND
I assume 22_88 A+B?

also:
W/O 22/99AB i20 -10 0
N/O 22/99AB i20 -14 +6
I assume those 9s are supposed to be 8s?

lastly how is N/O B+K BE 55i? has to be faster than that

Fixing it, thanks. And B+K BE depends on orb position, I think, but try using it, it's really slow.

I guess they probably use B+K placement as a reference, otherwise it has an active hitbox quicker (or at least on par) than N/O B+K

with a little testing it's definitely not i55...not sure how fast exactly but I set viola to record B+K return, then quickly did B+K BE with orb on top of viola. the BE hit first. also consider I couldn't have possibly done both at the same time so I'd have to guess the BE activates in 25 frames or less

Has anyone tested quite a few things to see if the frame data changed since the guide? Especially with the v1.01 patch?

Alright, so I'm going through the wiki and putting all the frame data I can get my hands on (from the guide) into the wiki. Viola presents a small problem, in that her unorthodox style creates a rather unorthodox looking wiki page. For her page, I was going to seperate her WO and HO states into two separate movelists, similar to Ivy's WP, SW, and CL in SC4. If that works well for you all, then I'll go ahead and do that. If not, let me know what does and I'll do that.

I've also made her page and as it is now, it's just a skeleton, but when you decide on what's easiest, Panther can also edit the page.

W/O 33/88A i16 -14 0
N/O 33/88A i16 -18 KND

another typo >.>
I really love W/O 33A though :)

Can we please change the notation to VS and VO like in the guidebook?

People are using W/O to mean "With Orb" and now you're using WO to mean "Without Orb" since I'm assuming by HO you mean "Holding Orb." The abbreviation w/o is commonly used for "without" so I'm getting the notations confounded here.

VO = "Viola Orb"
VS = "Viola Set"