What do you think about magical characters in the series?

[jtdam09]

Yeah, but Tekken does that stuff too now.

They've done it since Tekken 2.

 

[Marginal]

They've done it since Tekken 2.

It's been doing it more lately.

 

[DevilsDisguise]

Good thing the majority disagrees with you.

I just have limits. I just defined what "magic" means to me. The minimal was fine pre-Ein & Viola.

The only reason there wasn't more special and magical attacks earlier is probably because they didn't have the technology or couldn't balance it properly. Magic fits in the game's story and its totally stupid to think that characters that have access to magic would not use it during a fight, that makes absolutely no sense at all.

If you mean literal technology, then I disagree. If SC was supposed to be that way it would have been depicted so from the start. All Dragonball Z games are made with the flight and energy blasts in mind from the get-go because thats the surrealism level it was based on (Z at least), I doubt its game engine. Also, Tekken is still comparable to SC being that its levels of "magic" are still very minimal, and most of the characters don't abuse it as a crutch. let alone have or need any powers. Most of the magic is just the supernatural elements of the antagonists who are just possessed monsters; like in SC.

Also, I assure you that, while Z.W.E.I.'s moveset could be removed, Viola's surely as hell will not, its the most original one we had in the series, it added something fresh, something that no smart company would discard easily.

Originality, and Freshness are subjective. Viola could literally use anything else as a weapon and she'd still be just as unique in character alone. Even something as uncanny as Tira's weapon concept is still has its merit staying within the consistency checklist. Its a blade? it stays in her hand? Passes by me.

 

[Macaulyn]

I just have limits. I just defined what "magic" means to me. The minimal was fine pre-Ein & Viola.


If you mean literal technology, then I disagree. If SC was supposed to be that way it would have been depicted so from the start. All Dragonball Z games are made with the flight and energy blasts in mind from the get-go because thats the surrealism level it was based on (Z at least), I doubt its game engine. Also, Tekken is still comparable to SC being that its levels of "magic" are still very minimal, and most of the characters don't abuse it as a crutch. let alone have or need any powers. Most of the magic is just the supernatural elements of the antagonists who are just possessed monsters; like in SC.


Originality, and Freshness are subjective. Viola could literally use anything else as a weapon and she'd still be just as unique in character alone. Even something as uncanny as Tira's weapon concept is still has its merit staying within the consistency checklist. Its a blade? it stays in her hand? Passes by me.

The game also HAS limits. The trait of Soul Calibur is weapon usage and that is still the main thing people use with. Viola's magic usage is very limited in the game, she only uses telekinesis and a few blasts from her orb. Said orb, however is a weapon, is a physical weapon, the only real difference is that its used through telekineses instead of being held, but the concept of weapon usage is still the exact same as all others. The same can be said about E.I.N., he is not a random spell that occurs once in a while, like in an RPG. He materializes and attacks physically, his claws are a weapon, he and Z.W.E.I. are the first two-in-one characters in the Soul Calibur series (like Chang and Choi in Capcom VS SNK 2 or Ferra and Torr in Mortal Kombat X), but just because there is magic, that doesn't make their weapons over the top in comparison ot the others'. Also, no, originality is not subjective, "original" is synonym to "new", with exception of appearence, there is very little original about Z.W.E.I. (and, SPECIALLY, neither about Viola), as such, their movesets, that never had something even close to them in the series, DO qualify as original, regardless of what anyone can think or say, they can't change a fact.

 

[DevilsDisguise]

The same can be said about E.I.N., he is not a random spell that occurs once in a while, like in an RPG.

It wouldn't work exactly like that, for it to still initially be the same thing. He's almost no different than being a persona, if not for ZWEI at least having a sword to occasionally use.

Also, no, originality is not subjective, "original" is synonym to "new", with exception of appearence,

Something can be "new" for its addition to something, but not necessarily original for its genre.

there is very little original about Z.W.E.I. (and, SPECIALLY, neither about Viola), as such, their movesets, that never had something even close to them in the series, DO qualify as original, regardless of what anyone can think or say, they can't change a fact.

Something being original to the series itself, it doesn't inherently bring quality to a concept just because its new or original. It could very well be unneeded or pretentious (which in gaming is usually something gimmicky). I won't say that Viola and ZWEI were necessarily so (because they weren't marketed by their movesets, but their "originality" didn't actually improve anything but add worlds of tedium to the series).

 

[Foot]

this whole discussion is pretty meh. Characters like viola or zwei or even pat have the same right to be in the game as kilik or nightmare. They tried to put innovative styles in the game with new ideas and gamemechanics. They did the same when introducing hilde and algol or even abyss back then. And there wont ever be a fightign game with 28 characters that are all awesome and everyone likes em. I mean personally I dislike characters like cervantes and taki i find them boring as fck to play but thats my opinion and has nothing to do with them not being worth the spot. Dont like something dont use it but dont bitch about it being terrible or whatever.

 

[DevilsDisguise]

i dont like them i simply dont play them its that easy. Dont like something dont use it but dont bitch about it being terrible or whatever.

This discussion wasn't supposed to be about whether people liked Viola or ZWEI specifically or if they can tolerate using them or not, it was about how far are people willing to accept characters like them or moving to characters in their direction. In general, I don't want anymore characters like them taking over the roster or any additions of their elements being given to others if that be any alternative.

 

[Foot]

thats exactly what i´m saying you genius its completely fine if they do that kind of stuff to keep the game fresh and creative if YOU dont like the characters then simply dont play em that easy. Its not about you tolerating anything soul calibur isnt just sword vs sword fights without any supernatural aspects and it never was.

 

[DevilsDisguise]

thats exactly what i´m saying you genius its completely fine if they do that kind of stuff to keep the game fresh and creative if YOU dont like the characters then simply dont play em that easy. Its not about you tolerating anything soul calibur isnt just sword vs sword fights without any supernatural aspects and it never was.

I don't think you get what I was saying over all. I didn't say "without any supernatural aspects" in it. I said, there was an initial direction that worked for the series and its motifs, and a lean that would detrimentally break away from it speculatively. I found SC5 just emphasizing a bit too much of the "Magic" in its gameplay, more so than the rest of the series before it.

 

[Macaulyn]

I don't think you get what I was saying over all. I didn't say "without any supernatural aspects" in it. I said, there was an initial direction that worked for the series and its motifs, and a lean that would detrimentally break away from it speculatively. I found SC5 just emphasizing a bit too much of the "Magic" in its gameplay, more so than the rest of the series before it.

That exists only in your head. The only character that EVER emphasized magic more than weapon usage was Night Terror, no other came even close to it.

 

[DevilsDisguise]

That exists only in your head. The only character that EVER emphasized magic more than weapon usage was Night Terror, no other came even close to it.

I can accept it from bosses because thats what generally makes them the collateral threat. Though he still prominently used his sword and nightmare's style to attack with.

 

[Foot]

yea but then again what about necried in sc 2 who was basically the same thing or inferno magic characters have always been a part of sc they are just able to make more of it now. Compared to what their options were back in sc 2 days which is a good thing. Because its actually the other way around if soul calibur was simply a weapon fighting game that tries to be realistic it wouldnt be soul calibur

 

[DevilsDisguise]

yea but then again what about necried in sc 2 who was basically the same thing or inferno magic characters have always been a part of sc they are just able to make more of it now. Compared to what their options were back in sc 2 days which is a good thing. Because its actually the other way around if soul calibur was simply a weapon fighting game that tries to be realistic it wouldnt be soul calibur

SC initially started out fairly grounded in fantasy-realism. The hype of SC used to be from seeing new weapon fashions from various medieval cultures compare themselves others, while the background for the Soul Swords and plots were just the source of that perversion in characters like Sigfried, who started out normal humans. Necrid though is not that far away from Nightmare, as he to my standards was a balanced exception. He has a morphing weapon, its not a normal sword but it behaves like them. Thats just the consistency to fantasy-realism I want.

 

[Foot]

then sc isnt the game for you. As i said if you dont like change and everythign to be the way it was back in the first game then maybe stick with it. I mean melee is still being played so why cant you do the same