Yoshimitsu and A+K

Discussion in 'Yoshimitsu' started by HajimeOwari, Feb 9, 2012.

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  1. HajimeOwari

    HajimeOwari Premium Member

    A+K has potential. It has longer range than SCIV. If the opponent's body steps into, it counts a a hit. Furthermore, A+K can GI some verts. Specifically, I have gotten it to work on Xiba's BB. While not always practical, this means it may be useful against certain strings when there really isn't any other option except to block.

    A successful A+K can get four different results.

    1. You get a GI and a IFP "charge."
    2. You get a GI and no charge.
    3. You get a GI and a hit.
    4. You get a hit.

    Just like in SCIV, A+K puts Yoshi slightly off axis. This can be used to step a move.


    Opponent's name == Attack string and Yoshi A+K timing == Notes

    i.e.

    Ezio == 22A(A+K)A == None
    Pocky-Yoshi and RedDjinn like this.
  2. DrDogg

    DrDogg [09] Warrior

    I'll add to this when I get some notations for the strings I know Yoshi can interrupt. I get A+K all day against ZWEI.

    Are we sure you get no IFP charge from some GIs? I've GI'd where it doesn't do a full GI animation, but isn't a hit either. That seems to be common depending on the circumstances. If you don't charge IFP from that, I'll be displeased.

    I accept the fact that PS screwed Yoshi's IFP and I've been working on using A+K more to charge it. I already know that hitting with A+K doesn't charge, but if some GIs don't charge either, that's pretty frustrating.
  3. RedDjinn

    RedDjinn Dat Hillbilly

    If you are GI'ing strings with it, it would help if at the end of your notation maybe in the notes part you put which A+K GI it grants for that string, like whether it hits, GI's + IFP or only GI's.
  4. Jesster

    Jesster [08] Mercenary

    I've had A+K cause a weapon clash with vertical attacks, rather than an actual GI. Perhaps you're mistaking these weapon clashes for GI's that don't charge IFP.
  5. HajimeOwari

    HajimeOwari Premium Member

    Djinn: Good point.

    DrDogg and Jeester: Some preliminary testing showed it, but I haven't had time to 100% verify it.

    Since it's a minor topic, I figured I'd get the ball rolling. While I'd love to be the authority on it, there's just too much stuff to work on. >_< Anyhow, if you find any strings where A+K_4B+K are the only options, then test 'em out and post 'em up.
  6. rudeb0y

    rudeb0y [06] Combatant

    Regardless of the IFP charge, A+K works as a great interruption when it hits against people who get in your face after a knock down, aiming for a throw/mid mixup. You also get a KND at super close range which is great for follow up that you might not as easily get with JG.

    Conversly, you can try running up after a knock down and use it against retaliation to get another KND.

    I've tried it out in training against Astaroth. So far can easily get the 2nd hit of Asta's Bull Rush BE. Quite a few of his horizontals can easily be A+K'ed on reaction so it's quite useful to bait out these moves with step and get IFP charged.
  7. DrDogg

    DrDogg [09] Warrior

    His bull rush counts as a horizontal? Nice. Do you get the IFP charge or does it count as a hit... or half GI, no charge oddity?
  8. Orionics

    Orionics [09] Warrior

    i find stepping or 4B+King the 2nd hit in bullrush to be a better option​
  9. DrDogg

    DrDogg [09] Warrior

    Stepping can be difficult and risky depending on the situation (near a wall or ring out, on wake-up, etc.), and 4B+K takes Yoshi's life, which is not always an option. Knowing you can A+K it is a great alternative.
  10. rudeb0y

    rudeb0y [06] Combatant

    More a body attack, no IFP charge. To quote the guide "auto-GI: H, M Horizontal, Body".

    Also: "Sometimes it can also hit when close enough and stun the opponent, but nothing will be guaranteed afterwards" - I think that's what is happening here, a mix-up opportunity if you blocked the first hit.

    Also does kicks (H), thinking might be useful on some chars - doesn't one of Maxi's strings end in a high K?
  11. DrDogg

    DrDogg [09] Warrior

    Yes, but the Maxi player shouldn't be using it unless the previous attack hit. Most people duck and punish on reaction.
  12. RedDjinn

    RedDjinn Dat Hillbilly

    A+K kills Leixia...

    Someone really needs to do an in detail video to where we can apply A+K in diff situations...
  13. Orionics

    Orionics [09] Warrior

    Xiba ==66B(A+K)B== no GI. no hit. it's like a weapon clash leaves yoshi at +5. Yoshi 3B+K(i22) double hits with Xiba 6A(i17)

    Xiba ==AA(A+K)K ==GI
    Xiba ==3B(A+K)K ==GI and counts as an air hit. Xiba takes 22dmg.
    Xiba ==66K(A+K)B or {B} ==no GI. no hit. off axis. Free 3b
    Pocky-Yoshi likes this.
  14. NoodleHead

    NoodleHead [02] Apprentice

    Not sure if this is already known or interesting, but I had A+K being GI'd by Nightmare's 236A on several occasions..
  15. I guess it'll be me that starts the character reference guide. I'll be doing everyone else's(4 chars at a time), but it's late and I'm tired. Now let's get into it..

    PS: Anyone's input would be helpful.

    GUIDE:
    Character
    Character's Input -- When to A+K (Yoshimitsu's Flash) -- GI+Charge(IFP CHARGE)/CH STN(No Charge)/Clash(Odditiy& No Charge)/Trade( No Charge & Yoshi takes DMG)

    PATROKLOS
    6BBB -- A+K 2nd Hit -- CH STN No Charge
    22_88 AA -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    3KK_44KK -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    1b BE -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    234b BE --A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge

    Z.W.E.I.
    3AA -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    1 {B} --A+K 2nd Hit -- GI's EIN +Charge !Only on short charge!
    {B} -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI's EIN +Charge
    6B+K A -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    6[B+K] A -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    22_88 BB -- A+K 2nd Hit -- Trade (Z.W.E.I in CH STN/ Yoshi takes 24 DMG)
    66_33_99 a BE -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI's EIN + Charge (Risky.. watch for 66_33_99 [A] BE mixup)

    LEIXIA
    6BA --A+K 2nd Hit -- Clash No Charge
    66_33_99 AA --A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    6KK -- A+K 2nd Hit -- Trade (Leixia in CH STN/ Yoshi takes 24 DMG)
    3AA -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    22_88kAAB_K -- A+K 2nd Hit -- CH STN No Charge
    22_88B+K kAAB_K -- A+K 2nd Hit -- CH STN No Charge

    NATSU
    6AB --A+K 2nd Hit -- CH STN No Charge
    6AK -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    WR AAA --A+K 3rd Hit -- GI+Charge (AIR GI Launcher)
    BKA -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    BK4 -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    KKK -- A+K 3rd Hit -- GI+Charge (strict timing/inconsistent??)
    22_88 KA -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge (AIR GI Launcher)
    2_8 B+K KA -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge (AIR GI Launcher.. (@point blank/Natsu CH STN in front of Yoshi, free 3B)

    YOSHIMITSU
    A(A+K)=Repel
    214A(A+K)=Repel
    1A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    4A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    8A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    3A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    66A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    66a(A+K)A+B+K(BE)= GI and Charge
    6A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    33/99A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    Rising A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    77/44/11A(A+K)= GI and Charge
    6B(A+K)= Parry
    bA(A+K)= Repel
    44bB(A+K)= Repel
    11/77B(A+K)= Stun
    6K(A+K)= GI and Charge
    3K(A+K)= GI and Charge
    4K(A+K)= CLASH?!
    3B+K(A+K)= Stun
    6B+K(A+K)= Stun
    9B+K(A+K)= GI and Charge

    PYRRAH OMEGA
    22A(A+K) = GI and Charge
    88A(A+K) = GI and Charge
    66/33/99A(A+K) = GI and Charge
    4A(A+K) = GI and Charge
    4A B(A+B) = GI and Charge (block first attack)
    4A A(A+B) = GI and Charge (block first attack)
    A(A+K) = GI and Charge

    XIBA
    66B(A+K)B== Clash
    AA(A+K)K ==GI
    3B(A+K)K ==GI and counts as an air hit. Xiba takes 22dmg.
    66K(A+K)B or {B} ==Clash. Free 3b

    RAPHAEL
    NOTES: A+K BEATS ALMOST ALL PREP OPTIONS* AND ALL SHADOW EVADE OPTIONS AT POINT BLANK RANGE.
    *PREP OPTIONS: AT POINT BLANK, A+K BEATS MOST.. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RAPH'S PREP B{B}.
    SHADOW EVADE: A SMALL STEP FORWARD THEN A+K BEATS ALL OPTIONS FOR SE A_B_K. NETS CH STN AND FREE 3B COMBO FOR 29-33 DMG.

    6BBB -- A+K 3rd Hit -- CH STN
    6 Bb BE -- A+K Last Hit -- CH STN
    1K -- A+K -- GI + Charge
    PREP~BBB -- A+K before 3rd Hit (Strict Timing) -- CH STN
    PREP~AB -- A+K after PREP -- GI+Charge @ mid range/CH STN @ point blank.
    PREP~A{B} -- A+K after PREP -- GI+Charge @ mid range/CH STN @ point blank.
    PREP~K -- A+K the kick -- GI+Charge @ mid range/CH STN @ point blank.
    PREP~SE A_B_K -- Small step forward, A+K beats all.
    PREP~6Bb BE -- A+K Last Hit -- CH STN
    PREP~K BE -- A+K Last Hit -- CH STN

    EZIO
    66_99_33 BB -- A+K 2nd Hit -- CH STN No Charge
    66_99_33 Bb BE -- A+K 2nd Hit -- CH STN No Charge
    WR BB -- A+K 2nd Hit -- Clash (Oddity)

    VIOLA
    6AB -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge
    66AB -- A+K 2nd Hit -- CH STN
    3A -- A+K -- GI+Charge
    33_99A -- A+K -- GI+Charge (strict timing/risky)
    66B -- A+K -- @ mid range GI+Charge/ @ point blank CH STN
    when orb is set 4A+B -- A+K 2nd Hit -- GI+Charge



    more to come..

    props to Aquassh & Orionics for their input.
  16. Pocky-Yoshi

    Pocky-Yoshi [14] Master

    Pardon this offtopic post.

    I'm currently doing antis on Pyrrha Omega, but I dug up that it's possible to use A+K to Omega's 6A. The only problem is it's quite fast and unless you got good godlike reactions, you'll eat a 6A. However, 214A interrupts and TC and is clearly the most superior option.

    But her simple AA can be "A+K"ed. Her 4A somehow gives me a feeling that it could "A+K"ed. I'll test more as I finish up the Pyrrha Omega match-up for this thread: http://8wayrun.com/threads/yoshimitsu-matchup-discussion.10949/

    But can ask a selfish request? If you wouldn't mind, can you check to see if the antis are correct on the first post? Though Oboro did a great job and all, but I want make sure all Yoshi experts look it over and make sure none of the antis are wrong. That way any Yoshis looking for anti help can just glance and move on.
    Aquaash likes this.
  17. Signia

    Signia [12] Conqueror

    How much frame advantage does he get on the aGI? Or is it dependent when the GI occurs during the animation?
  18. DrunkenSnake

    DrunkenSnake [05] Battler

    I think so. You ou can get just A,A pos aGI if it occurs late and maybe even 6K if it's perfect. I don't know the numbers nor do I really use it though, so maybe someone who knows better can confirm?

    I rather use normal GI since I don't use Yoshi's BEs and CE at all (and well... the main reason is the fact I can't fit A+K to my control scheme :D).
  19. Pocky-Yoshi

    Pocky-Yoshi [14] Master

    Pardon this post, and feel free to correct me since I'm still nooby at frame stuff.

    Since A+K is 8 frames.

    Omega's AA is 12 frames as it says on wiki. A+K 4 frames faster. AGIs most times. But sometimes it hits.

    While her 6A is 15 frames as it says on wiki. A+K is 7 frames faster. AGIs. Imho, I wouldn't bother using A+K to this and stick to punishing with 214A. The AA is easier to AGI because of the animation and you're more than likely to see this poke imho. 6A? Though slower, is still very quick and you have to be close to Omega.

    Edit: 4AB and 4AA. Both are i18. A+K is 10 frames faster.

    4AB. Mostly hits. Sometimes AGIs for the 4A part. B is a mid and can't be "A+K"ed. Pouts.

    However the 4AA, the second hit it just hits if really close. A good guaranteed follow up is 3B. No AGIs. But if you were to say block 4A then A+K the second hit, it AGIs. xD

    Double edit: 4[A], A made Pocky Yoshi squeal with glee. Both hits are AGIed by A+K. Test them and see.

    4[A], A is 38 frames. A+K is 30 frames faster. The second hit of 4AA is still the same properties and all.

    4[A], B is 38 frames as well, but the B can't be "A+K"ed. Pouts. But the 4[A] part gets me all happy for its easy to react to with A+K. xD

    Triple edit: 4[A] is gonna be the "chance move" to A+K and get a free launch with 3B and follow up with whatever you want. *squeals* . But the problem is 4[A] has to be close. No matter. if you do get a AGI on it, follow up with 3B into whatever you want. But sometimes it'll just hit and you can only followup with 3B. Especially when point blank range.
    Aquaash and JT_the_Ninja like this.
  20. Aquaash

    Aquaash [03] Disciple

    Here are some Pyrrha Omega A+Ks.

    If I get anything wrong feel free to correct me.

    22A(A+K) = GI and Charge
    88A(A+K) = GI and Charge

    66/33/99A(A+K) = GI and Charge

    4A(A+K) = GI and Charge
    4A B(A+B) = GI and Charge (block first attack)
    4A A(A+B) = GI and Charge (block first attack)

    A(A+K) = GI and Charge
    These are the only safe and easy-ish ones to execute.

    It seems no one has noticed that if you press A+K at the exact time your opponent does an attack it repels(cancels out) the attack. This also seems to affect any Mid moves (eg: Horizontals, Verticals and Kicks).

    You can also use A+K while the opponent is in the air. Pyrrha Omegas 8B+K can be stopped if you use A+K when they start to fall.
    Here is a combo example: 1K G A+K (37 Damage)
    You must tap guard if you want to pull it off.

    Thanks.
    Pocky-Yoshi and JT_the_Ninja like this.
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