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I just so happen to believe that freewill is also an illusion. I feel like I can explain all of my choices as dictated by prior experiences, and my biological makeup. Ever notice how men end up taking on many of their father's personality traits?

I respect your position though.

I've heard people say that before, and I've been curious how it's possible to not believe in free will. I hope that doesn't come off offensively, I respect your position as well and I'm genuinely curious about it. So, if you don't mind humoring me a little bit, I'd like to know about the concept a little more.

I believe that plenty of our traits our inherited and even more (personality-wise) are learned through observing our parents and other family members and friends growing up. Similarly, our decision-making tends to be based on what we've done and seen done before.

All of the experiences in my life have made me who I am, formed my personality, my perceptions... But in the end, I'm my own man. I'm not my father, or my brother, or any of my friends. In each moment, I'm free to do anything I feel like doing. I'm choosing to type this right now. If I wanted, I could just as easily close the internet and go grab a snack or do some of the schoolwork I've been busy procrastinating.

I know a bit about the science behind the idea, though I admit "a bit" is about as far as it goes. To me, it just seems obvious that I have free will. Each moment of my life, I make decisions. I consider a situation and make a decision based on my own perception and intuition in that moment and I could have easily made a different decision in a lot of cases. If it's an illusion, it's a pretty damn convincing one.

So... Sorry for the monster walls of text. I probably rambled more than I meant to. I get like that when I'm interested in something, so I hope you take that as a compliment and don't get TOO annoyed ;p

well, it's sort of hard to explain, because as far as "we" perceive it, we make our own choices. However, what we call the "conscious" mind, can all be explained by physical mechanisms in the brain. All "physical mechanisms", whether they are biological or not, constitute a "machine" that acts in accordance with physics and biology.

If we literally take away a slice of the brain, or in some cases physical brain damage, the result is often a drastic change in personality as well as a sharp decline in coginitve ability.

Or, in the case of alcohol and other mind altering drugs, a physical change to the brain (the drug) causes a psycological change in the person. Sometimes, drugs will make people do things they would normally never do. This implies that the person's will was never free to begin with.

I will admit though, that the theory of "no freewill", is a bit counter intuitive. I wrestled with it for a long time, but it was the readings of David Hume , Schopenheur and Nietzsche that utterly convinced me of this notion.

Interesting, I can see where you're coming from. I still can't buy it, though. Many drugs induce an altered state of consciousness, which does cause people to act much differently... Still, in that moment, they made their own decision, no matter how messed up they were.

True that they may never have done so sober and might regret what happened, but they still made a choice in that moment. The drug altered how their mind perceived the world, but it didn't force them to make a decision, it didn't take away their freewill. And let's not forget that they chose to take the drug in the first place.

Now, if we cut out a slice of someone's brain, they would likely behave differently because well... the brain is everything. We need it (in its entirety) for the proper function of our minds and bodies, but even so, I don't believe that we run on auto-pilot. There are automated systems in our bodies, obviously, but everything that's controlled consciously is just that: controlled consciously.

Under normal circumstances, most of our own bodies (arms, legs, what-have-you) are completely under our own control. Our brain is a fabulous tool, and without it we wouldn't be anything but sad lumps of flesh, but in the end it is a tool, not our master. That's the way I see it, anyways.

Maybe I'm a bit simple, or maybe I'm too stubborn and proud to believe that I don't have control over my life... but for me, the simple fact that I've chosen to believe in freewill and you have chosen not to is proof enough for me of its existence. Regardless, it's always fun to chat with someone with a different point of view.

I have enjoyed our conversation as well. Sometimes I need a countering point of view in order to strengthen my own. If I never have to explain my beliefs to anyone, then they never get challenged.

I think in general the problem with today's generation is that we are way too uncomfortable talking about what we believe, and people often feel threatened when they have to justify it, or get offended when someone disagrees.

It's nice to know there is still room for free and open discussion in today's society :) It's too bad this topic is too sensitive for most people. I've been called everything from stupid to psychopath just for stating that I don't believe in freewill. Another person tried to compare me to the likes of Stalin and Hitler! I thank you for being cool about this.

You're quite welcome, thanks for indulging me. And what, Hitler, really? I can't decide if that's hilarious or depressing. Too many people are too close-minded. Variety is the spice of life, it's no fun if everyone thinks the same!

The sheer lack of self awareness is staggering.