Best way to get started with SC?

Dagon

Dagon

[08] Mercenary
Hey everyone. I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this; I'm more accustomed to SRK, and this seems akin to the Newbie Saikyo Dojo subforum, so please feel free to correct me if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

I've been a competitive Street Fighter IV player for about six months now. I played the game casually starting in the fall of my junior year of college (yes, I'm an '09er), mainly because all of my friends were and I wanted to know what all the fuss was about.

When MvC3 came out, I was ridiculously hyped; as a kid I loved MvC2, MvC, Marvel Super Heroes, but obviously I was a scrub back then and didn't take it at all seriously. Unfortunately, my friends weren't huge fans of the game, so I went back to playing SFIV since I had nobody to play against (and no 360 at the time). I have since gotten a 360 and Ultimate (still haven't taken the time to learn how to play the damn game though).

When I heard about SCV and TTTT, I had a similar amount of hype that I did for MvC3; again, when I was a kid I have fond memories of playing TTT, T3, T4 and SCII with my brother, again just messing around and not taking it seriously. (I can specifically remember making jokes about Kazuya's up+forward+circle, circle, circle kick making it look like his torso had collapsed {EDIT 1:22 of this video for reference
}. And the eyebrows.)

I am very much looking forward to the release of SCV because I want to apply my now serious mindset about FGs as a whole to SC, a familiar yet completely unexplored engine. However, I don't really know where to begin. As a SF player I am predisposed to training mode, learning combos, grinding execution, etc., but I wonder if perhaps SC is drastically different. What should be my approach on Day 1 getting SCV with basically no experience with the engine? What are good things to work on, what should I try to learn? Is it best to stick with one character while trying to learn fundamentals, or is it recommended to not get committed to one main before understanding what I'm getting myself into? Any advice or thoughts on the subject would be very helpful to one such as myself. Thanks.
 
One thing to focus on in SC is frames matter (since there are no cancels beyond strings) and the general rule of thumb is usually once blocked you are at disadvantage . So the game is fairly poke based with unsafe moves reserved as punishes, yomis, or modified to make safe (such as at a certain range or angle). Pressure results from mixing up strings (like maybe not finishing them, then starting a new attack as they hesitate), landing one of the few +frame moves (generally has a fair draw back like slow start up or duckable), or zoning.

Think of footsies in SF and that's how you might look at this game. Lots of pokes, ways to punish predictable pokes, and positioning are the big factors. Combos are part of the game, but are not what it's about. Only a few characters are execution heavy and fairly tame compared to games like MvC.

The best way to start is get a general grasp of move safety and try to think of how to use each move. Is it for poke? perhaps a combo started for a punish? Can you layer it with shenanigans like a string mix up? Can I maybe use the attack, then bait a mistake such as stepping immediately after?

Typically you want to main 1 character, 2 tops. You have a lot of moves to understand, and a lot of match ups to consider with that characters options alone so it's hard to immediately adopt multiple characters. Also try not to focus on being fancy for no reason. AA and BB will get you pretty far with the proper fundamentals and keep you from wildly swinging for flashy combos that your opponent can read a mile away. Give every move you do a purpose.
 
I'm planning to learn this as my first serious Soul Calibur game as well. Not sure of the most efficient way, but my schedule is 1. Find a character who has a playstyle I like, 2. Become familiar with the movelist, find good pokes and pressure tools. I'm stuck about there =/ I think a lot of the learning will be about becoming familiar with matchups, learning the tools other characters have that you need to look out for, and learning to implement quick-step and Just Guard into your game. I doubt the execution part will take long to master.
 
Dagon said:
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The easiest way to get accustomed is to do a ton of playing with an educated player who doesn't mind taking the time to teach. It just so happens, I'm that guy in the region (and the major regional TO) for SC, so you got lucky =)

All the other things you mentioned, Training Mode grinding and such, they do apply, absolutely, once you have a good foundation for the game down. It will be much faster to transmit that process in person, where you can ask questions and I can straight up show you directly, than any lengthy forum post.
 
Thanks for the tips, folks! It seems as though, from a fundamental perspective, SC plays a lot like SF as far as safe/unsafe moves and combos are concerned. For example, I'm not going to randomly throw out an unsafe move for no reason, but if I can combo into it for big damage, it's a good plan. Is it at all accurate to say that footsies exist to start combos and lead to bigger damage? I already have a firm understanding of how frame data operates, fortunately, but another question is how does move priority work in SC? Does it utilize hitboxes like SF?

Pocky-Yoshi said:
Give Pocky Yoshi a cookie to cooperate *shows defiant expression*
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Is this some kind of 8WR inside joke? Hazing or something? I don't understand.
 
It is hitboxes. You can tie and both hit, or in some cases cancel each other out with a clash. Moves strike in 3 areas: high, mid, low. Mids act as overheads, so in this game you don't want to crouch block unless you see a low or a high. If something says Special (like special mid or low) the hit box will conenct like a mid, but it can be block standing or crouching . Evasion is a big thing. While you may be at disadvantage you can make use of moves that have built in ducking, crouching, stepping to beat out an attack. So if they respond high, you can beat them by doing a move that crouches as it performs. Same as SF, but it's a much bigger factor here as the Z axis makes stepping and anti-stepping attacks a big deal.

There are no 'repeat jabs' in this game, only strings so you either have to play the back and forth game of baiting a whiff and poking where you can, or go for yomi by evading the attack as you go in.

We have auto impacts that work in a sense like super armor. So an attack may blow through verticals only, and then hit them. You also have guard impacts to give you tons of free damage. Throws are another way to get past guard and are very big since they are always a guess to break (if they break).

and that's just pocky yoshi. He just types like that on everything.
 
IvyFanboy, you're immensely helpful. I read couple of your Scrub Lessons (will read the other one later). Good stuff, funny and informative. As far as Pocky Yoshi is concerned, I mean the cookie thing. What does he mean by give him a cookie? o_O
 
Hm, regarding Soul Calibur and my newbie experience.

First of all, to me you need to figure out which character you can connect to the best, if you can get behind the motives of the character and use that to push you forwards, it really does help! I mained Talim in SC4 and I am hoping I can find someone else who I can support like that in SC5, someone who can motivate me like she did. :P Whoever that is, I will play that style.

It may be Pyura, it may be Pat or Zwei. I shall have to see. Usually though it is someone female cause they are just cuter to look at. :P

Anyway to me the best way for me is to experiment and see who you can click and connect with. Cheesy as that sounds.
 
Thankfully you'll be starting on SC5 which seems to be a fresh start for the series so now is a great time. Movement is different and meter will change the game a bit so you'll be able to start new and grow with a new group of people.
 
Dagon said:
IvyFanboy, you're immensely helpful. I read couple of your Scrub Lessons (will read the other one later). Good stuff, funny and informative. As far as Pocky Yoshi is concerned, I mean the cookie thing. What does he mean by give him a cookie? o_O
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It's just his way of awarding kudos. As to your original query:

IdleMind said:
The easiest way to get accustomed is to do a ton of playing with an educated player who doesn't mind taking the time to teach. It just so happens, I'm that guy in the region (and the major regional TO) for SC, so you got lucky =)

All the other things you mentioned, Training Mode grinding and such, they do apply, absolutely, once you have a good foundation for the game down. It will be much faster to transmit that process in person, where you can ask questions and I can straight up show you directly, than any lengthy forum post.
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This. After that it's up to you and the Nietzschean process that is trial and error. Being defeated, learning from that and then crushing your enemies, seeing dem driven before you andt hearing de lamentations of de vwomen. Like an anime character. Let's hope you're more like an Ichigo and less like a Gohan. No wait... Ichigo learns quick but he loses his powers too doesn't he? Okay let's hope you're more like Cell Monster in that you absorb all of your opponent's best tactics... only to be destroyed by a Kameamea Wave? ... Or maybe Xiba players?... Well there's a simile in there somewhere. And it's up to you to find it. Or else.

I hope that you do excel and become an exceptional player though Dagon. Simply so I can post under your match videos like a crazed cultist: "NOTHING CAN STOP DAGON!" Will those stars align? That is up to you.
 
Thanks for all the encouragement, guys (& girl(s)!). I'm really looking forward to jumping in at the ground level for this game...I really enjoy learning, as lame as that may sound. I'm going to be at Winter Brawl for Street Fighter, but I'm still trying to decide whether or not I should enter for Soul Calibur. I suppose it would be more helpful to just watch lots of matches?

Ghengis_John, I'll upvote your comments if that happens, haha. Good stuff.

Pocky-Yoshi: check this link. I uploaded a cookie just for you from a database that I was hacking around in. Help yourself.
 
Dagon said:
I'm beginning to think that this place is much unlike SRK. People seem more...relaxed?
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I agree as well about the relaxed part. I have a similar situation with your story as well man but I came from the smash community and played brawl and melee competitively for 2 years so I know what you are going through in a way.
 
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