Cervantes Matchup: Discussion

docvizzo said:
Whats 3A strange properties in this matchup? havent played this game in a while, but even when i used to play it intensively i never liked 3A in this game, at least when you are used to SC2-SC4 3A, which obviously was safe.
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I've tested this move out in training, Natsu can't punish this move 100% of the time when blocked with her damaging punishers: 6 A+B, the other being A which only gives her 8 damage but that doesn't always work either. It seems like it only works at very specific instances, and most of the instances where it can be punished, it isn't entirely obvious. As a result, if the Natsu user attempts to punish the move, the Cerv player can punish whatever she used to punish the move. It becomes a high risk/low reward for the Natsu because punishing it doesn't happen as much as Cerv blocking it. The risk doesn't become so high for Cerv to just throw it out there. Natsu's can step aB with 88 A (and its fast enough to evade 1 A B), and they can spam 6 B to get in, 66 B, and get up close easily, as well as spam their low bombs and the list goes on. Throwing out aB is suicide because she can punish it 100% of the time. However, 3 A stops those moves, while shutting down 88 A and 88 B spam in its entirety. Its really his only defense against some of Natsu's absurd moves. Mixing it up with other attacks, and the match up becomes a bit more winnable.
 
Hmmm. I will check this later if i find time. So you are saying that for some weird reason she cant punish it sometimes? I dont understand the mechanics behind this atm...
 
docvizzo said:
Hmmm. I will check this later if i find time. So you are saying that for some weird reason she cant punish it sometimes? I dont understand the mechanics behind this atm...
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She can only punish it when Cervantes is dead close up to her face. But this is at the closest distance. Literally, you have to run up to them at the closest distance possible. Anything before that, and she can't do anything. A cervantes user could make this move safe every time (outside of A but for 8 damage...even then it doesn't work at all ranges) by doing a slight tapped backstep and then using it.
 
Yo. Ok i checked a bit. Indeed 3A is quite good since with a bit spacing its almost non punishable. Nontheless it leaves you at -15 and she can dash in and get momentum, but its pretty good in the matchup.

I feel like 9B+K is also decent in this matchup, i jumped plenty of weird shit with it, 22A etc. 4B+K also beats 22A, but with 3A as a safe option against along with 1AB i dont feel its necessary.

3A has its sweet spot along with the 1AB range, both combined make a powerfull, annoying combination.

Im just getting back into the game after playing SC2 almost for a year now, still feels weird but not too bad. Might play a bit more soon. Good thing is after playing a lot against SC2 Taki with her EX rush cancel i feel so fucking comfortable just blocking all day long, do people feel like this is a bad matchup for Cervy?.

Then i rememberd this game doesnt like you to block too much but rather press a lot of buttons and gamble all day long. Still like it though.
 
At first I thought it was a bad match up, but then I realized that shes probably just as hard, if not harder for other characters. Shes just got a lot of tools that does ridiculous amounts of damage. Even a CH 2 2 A, which is completely safe and very easy to just spam can net you at least 55 damage. I think its just learning to be patient and memorizing what to do in every situation. Ex: 6 A+B and 1 A into her teleport BE. You have to remember to do a back step and counter it with aB which beats all options. Its so easy to just forget some of that stuff during a match. I'd much rather fight a Viola (claimed as broken) over a Natsu any day.
 
Rocktopus said:
I've tested this move out in training, Natsu can't punish this move 100% of the time when blocked with her damaging punishers: 6 A+B, the other being A which only gives her 8 damage but that doesn't always work either. It seems like it only works at very specific instances, and most of the instances where it can be punished, it isn't entirely obvious. As a result, if the Natsu user attempts to punish the move, the Cerv player can punish whatever she used to punish the move. It becomes a high risk/low reward for the Natsu because punishing it doesn't happen as much as Cerv blocking it. The risk doesn't become so high for Cerv to just throw it out there. Natsu's can step aB with 88 A (and its fast enough to evade 1 A B), and they can spam 6 B to get in, 66 B, and get up close easily, as well as spam their low bombs and the list goes on. Throwing out aB is suicide because she can punish it 100% of the time. However, 3 A stops those moves, while shutting down 88 A and 88 B spam in its entirety. Its really his only defense against some of Natsu's absurd moves. Mixing it up with other attacks, and the match up becomes a bit more winnable.
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Ah no wonder.
 
Also if you use Ba slide right after you see natsu do the BEteleport you will score an agi for a free 3b combo
 
Hey everyone...i have questions about the viola match up, I'm talking a on high level vs her, what is the goal for cervy here?, what are his tools to get around orb sets and her keep out while staying out of her close range game, and what to do when in close, what can/cant he do and when to use/not use things?, i know he is somewhat limited from my experience, and a high level viola isn't one bit easy for him it seems, any tips regarding this match ups...

I do know a few things, try to maximize his frames, max range things that are hard to punish or safe at tip etc, but having them blocked and not having much adv either makes him very limited and making it that much more frustrating to open her up...and 1a,b doesn't seem to be able to get in at all, and if it does, he still loses momentum here. I will say that my experience was through online battles, never the less any serious help for the dreaded pirate would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT: i know i can't just willy nilly throw out auto-gi's thinking an orb set is coming either, that just...hurts :(

EDIT2: ok, just realized he cannot auto-gi orbs :/
 
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JustKill said:
Hey everyone...i have questions about the viola match up, I'm talking a on high level vs her, what is the goal for cervy here?, what are his tools to get around orb sets and her keep out while staying out of her close range game, and what to do when in close, what can/cant he do and when to use/not use things?, i know he is somewhat limited from my experience, and a high level viola isn't one bit easy for him it seems, any tips regarding this match ups...

I do know a few things, try to maximize his frames, max range things that are hard to punish or safe at tip etc, but having them blocked and not having much adv either makes him very limited and making it that much more frustrating to open her up...and 1a,b doesn't seem to be able to get in at all, and if it does, he still loses momentum here. I will say that my experience was through online battles, never the less any serious help for the dreaded pirate would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT: i know i can't just willy nilly throw out auto-gi's thinking an orb set is coming either, that just...hurts :(

EDIT2: ok, just realized he cannot auto-gi orbs :/
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I might be able to help here since I have a lot of experience on different Viola players. Cervantes should play patiently against her and keeping her at a range away from throws yet easy enough to step 6 B+K. Viola depends a lot on 6 B+K pressure, so its usually best to attack her when she starts going for that during this range. Best attacks for that is 66 B and bK, which even if blocked, leaves you at advantage and you could 2 A stuff her options etc. As for opening her up, whiffing her is where you get your damage. You do this with 3 3 K, side steps etc. Shes not very good at specific ranges for killing diagonal step. 2 A is also good for stopping her momentum as well as 3 K. 3K stops her 4 A BE right in its tracks. Its really useful. 1 a B is really just useful for the range and pokes. aGI's do not work on orbs. The only attack it works on is 44 A BE second hit but not an orb. AS for up close, honestly, once the viola gets her 6 B+K going you're better off randomly GI ing her so the Viola doesn't guess every time so they don't JG it, then 2 A ing her from doing more 6 B+K setups until you get back into that range.

Hmm... maybe... my match against Exitwounds will help clarify stuff. Exitwounds does not suck, far from it. Hes actually very good and from what I heard he beat Jimbo in a MM. I just made it look easy.

 
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Rocktopus said:
I might be able to help here since I have a lot of experience on different Viola players. Cervantes should play patiently against her and keeping her at a range away from throws yet easy enough to step 6 B+K. Viola depends a lot on 6 B+K pressure, so its usually best to attack her when she starts going for that during this range. Best attacks for that is 66 B and bK, which even if blocked, leaves you at advantage and you could 2 A stuff her options etc. As for opening her up, whiffing her is where you get your damage. You do this with 3 3 K, side steps etc. Shes not very good at specific ranges for killing diagonal step. 2 A is also good for stopping her momentum as well as 3 K. 3K stops her 4 A BE right in its tracks. Its really useful. 1 a B is really just useful for the range and pokes. aGI's do not work on orbs. The only attack it works on is 44 A BE second hit but not an orb. AS for up close, honestly, once the viola gets her 6 B+K going you're better off randomly GI ing her so the Viola doesn't guess every time so they don't JG it, then 2 A ing her from doing more 6 B+K setups until you get back into that range.

Hmm... maybe... my match against Exitwounds will help clarify stuff. Exitwounds does not suck, far from it. Hes actually very good and from what I heard he beat Jimbo in a MM. I just made it look easy.
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No doubt Youre a very good cervantes player.
I feel though that exitwounds did not know the matchup very well. 1AB blocked unpunished, aB whiffed unpunished, iGDR blocked unpunished, 6B+K connect, DC KB:B connect.
 
TheFool said:
No doubt Youre a very good cervantes player.
I feel though that exitwounds did not know the matchup very well. 1AB blocked unpunished, aB whiffed unpunished, iGDR blocked unpunished, 6B+K connect, DC KB:B connect.
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We had played online before so it wasn't that. I think he may have had tournament jitters. Hmm. which Viola specifically gives you trouble? Im trying to get matches with a good viola right now actually, maybe then ill be able to put up more videos.
 
Rocktopus said:
We had played online before so it wasn't that. I think he may have had tournament jitters. Hmm. which Viola specifically gives you trouble? Im trying to get matches with a good viola right now actually, maybe then ill be able to put up more videos.
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oh, I was only referring to the possibility of the match being one-sided due to lack of matchup knowledge, but since You played him online too, that means You probably got into his head ;)

I personally dont have viola trouble, casue I dont play violas lol
Edit: also, currently I main natsu. cervantes without consistent iGDR is difficult to play
 
TheFool said:
oh, I was only referring to the possibility of the match being one-sided due to lack of matchup knowledge, but since You played him online too, that means You probably got into his head ;)

I personally dont have viola trouble, casue I dont play violas lol
Edit: also, currently I main natsu. cervantes without consistent iGDR is difficult to play
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Ahh, I see. You know, for some reason I did all that because I thought it would work. I wouldn't even go for any of that if I didn't think it would work.

Well, I play really differently from online and offline. Offline I can iGDRx3 whiffs much more easily. I can even do run iGDR's. And no lag makes me feel...overpowered. Example: I play BBB online and I'd lose more than I'd win. I play him offline and the matches are very even round for round. So close that it honestly seems like i'm the only one in the west coast who could actually beat him in a tournament. I guess Blue might be happy to know that its very unlikely that ill go to Evo 2014.
 
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Hates said:
Exitwounds is fucking terrible.
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Why is everyone so mean to Exitwounds anyways lol. Did he do something to piss everyone off? I'm clueless about him other than the fact that he disappeared after SCR last year, then reappeared for this years. I guess he disappeared again because I haven't heard from him since then. I honestly don't know, I just try to be nice to everyone who doesn't send me hatemail.
 
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