This Guide is ongoing and will recieve updates until it is considered useless. If you have any moments of inspiration - PM me with your ideas and I will test and add them - its a team effort after all!
Credits go out to the entire Siegfried Soul Arena who one way or another helped this guide to be made with their contributions, ideas and styles. You know who you are.
Contents:
1: The Tab
2: Pad or Stick?
3: Setting up your pad
4: Stances
5: Fundamental Strategy
6: Summary of Tools
7: Combos
8: Wall Combos
9: In-depth look at Key Moves
10: Ring Out Potential
11: Punishment
12: Mixups
13: Practical Application
The Tab:
This guide uses standard tab. If you are unconfident with understanding it, use the table below as a referance as it makes life a lot simpler for everybody. It may seem intimidating at first but it will eventually become second nature.
[wiki]movelist-input-guide[/wiki]
1. Pad (Controller) or Stick?
Whilst I personally play stick nowadays, I learned on a pad and I honestly believe it makes absolutely no differance when playing Siegfried as his tough inputs can be worked around relatively easily.
As this is for new players, I will assume for this guide you are playing on a pad as few newbies will invest in an arcade stick so quickly.
2. Setting up your pad.
The shoulder buttons on a pad can be set up in options to register as any input you so choose. Every Siegfried pad user has a differant set-up, but the one I used is:
LB / L1 - B+G
LT/ L2 - A+K
RB / R1 - A+B
RT / R2 - B+K
SlayerX64 on the other hand uses:
LB / L1 - B+K
LT / L2 - A+B
RB / R1 - B+G
RT / R2 - A+K
The reason for each will become clear later in the guide, if you prefer a differant set-up, I would strongly advise that even if placed differantly, you use these four inputs as it makes life a LOT easier. Many of you will have noticed there is now no input to execute a critical finish. Don't worry, pressing B+G and A+K simultaneously will do it, so instead of pressing one shoulder button, you would press two.
Heaton has a slightly differant set up to us two however:
LB/L1 - A+K
LT/L2 - A+G
RB/R1 - A+B
RT/R2 - B+G
Two reasons for this:
1st, he is a total throw whore.
2nd, he's special and we love him. =3
3. Stances
Siegfried has the third largest number of stances in the game - second to Maxi and Yoshimitsu.
Understanding these stances is CRUCIAL to playing Siegfried. Siegfried has four stances:
Side Hold 4B+K
Chief Hold 2_8B+K
Base Hold B+K
Reverse Side Hold 6B+K
I will quickly go over the options of each stance:
Side Hold (SSH)
AA - To relatively slow low hits, will knock down and combo on Counter hit, on Normal hit the 2nd hit is blockable and unsafe.
[ A] - Single low hit that will knock down on Counter hit, advantage on normal hit, unsafe on block. Automatically transitions from SSH to SRSH.
B - Slow mid hit, knocks down on hit, unsafe on block, but only just - difficult for some sharacters to punish, automatically GI's high horizontals.
*NOTE* It CAN just impact unblockables - I once Just impacted the Apprentice's force lightning with the auto GI ^_^.
[ B] - Transitions into Base Hold, same propertiesd on hit, NEUTRAL on block - no disadvantage WHATSOEVER.
K - High kick, Slightly unsafe on block, knocks down on hit and stuns on counter hit, making moves 16 frames or faster garunteed. Fastest attack in stance.
A+B - Low hit, same speed as SSH A series, but has a MONUMENTAL backstep, unsafe on block but almost impossible for most of the cast to punish, unless your back is to a wall/edge.
Can manually shift into any other stance.
Chief Hold (SCH)
A - High hit into Mid hit, pushes back very well. Safe on block, slight disadvantage on hit/ Counter hit. FAST
[ A] - High hit into automatic transition into SSH. Slightly more disadvantage on block, same properties on hit/ Counter hit. FAST
B - Mid hit, knocks down on hit, neutral on hit at tip range. Can be charged into a Guard crush for advantage, semi-charged it gives less disadvantage on guard, safe anyway though =/
K - Mid kick, Siegfried's fastest move, good advantage on hit and Counter hit, disadvantage on block.
KK - Mid kick, High kick. Combos with first hit, will whiff if first hit lands on rouching opponent. Disadvantage on block, slight advantage on hit.
kB - Combos on counterhit, slightly unsafe on HIT and super unsafe on block, stuns on Counterhit. WORTHLESS.
k[ B] - advantage on hit, minor disadvantage on block.
A+B - Slow high, ridiculous range, safe on block, painful knockdown on hit. Cool as hell!
Can manually shift to any other stance.
Base Hold (SBH)
A - Slow high, knockdown on hit, safe on block. Good for wall combos.
B - The superlauncher! Safe on block, there are faster unblockables than this move though. XD
K - Fastest option, mid, knocks down on hit, very unsafe.
[ K] - 3 mid hits, knockdown on hit, safe on block, slow slow slow and linear.
A+B - The infamous lag tactic. Jump into a low, slow, safe on block, knockdown on hit. Abuse this online and I hope you die ^_~
Can manually shift into any stance
*NOTE* Stance will auto GI any horizontal, but there is a window where it will not. Any hit landed on you in this stance is automatically a Counterhit, so be careful where you use it!
Reverse Side Hold (SRSH)
A - Long range stuppidly slow high, unsafe, disadvantage on hit - UTTERLY USELESS MOVE
[ A] - Slight advantage on hit, slight disadvantage on block - ALSO USELESS
B - Unsafe on block, nasty combos on hit.
K - SUPER unsafe on block, crumple stun on hit.
[ K] - Significant disadvantage on block, combos SRSH A+B on hit.
A+B - Heavy knockdown mid. Safe on block, brutally rapes the soul gauge.
Can manually shift into any stance.
4. Fundamental strategy
Siegfried is all about spacing and mixup. He Works with a series of Heavy duty knockdowns, and excellent range, which to some characters can be dealt with, but to others can become a very bitter struggle to even get close enough to mount a significant offense. His stances can be employed to confuse the opponent and pressure them into making mistakes - which will cost them dearly. His movement is poor, but still able to be employed in certain situations, however his tools make it very easy to shut down your opponent's movement at close range, taking away an adavntage they would otherwise have.
5. Tools
Throws:
There is ABSOLUTELY no shame in abusing/spamming throws with Siegfried at close range. His throwing range is excellent, his A+G throw rings out forward, deals good damage and his B+G deals even more. Whilst throws are breakable, mixing them up makes life very very frustrating for an opponent. More importantly though is the fear of throws, to escape the mixup your opponent is likely to twitchduck a lot at disadvantage, employ your heavy mids and deal a significant blow such as 3A or iWS[ B]. Force your opponent back out to mid range, scare them away! If you feel your opponent is still a little close for comfort, employ what is called a vacuum grab, step forward straight into a throw as he has generally bad movement but his frontstep is fantastic. This is why you must have a B+G bind - the mixup should be second nature and not hindered by input.
Maintaining Offence:
Siegfried's frames would suggest that he has a one hit attack style, but it is equally important to understand advantage through range. I personally believe Siegfried's best range is the tip range of iag:A, or 3B. At this range, your opponent is in range of your heavy hits, which may well be unsafe ion block, but because of the sheer distance between the two of you, they are in absolutely no position to capitalise on it.
When you are in this sweet spot, your strongest tools are:
22[ B]
iag:A
B6
66A
3A
2A
KEEP APPLYING THE PRESSURE
Sooner or later, either your opponent's defence, or their soul gauge will shatter - beat them like a drum untill it happens. If you feel your opponent has covered sufficient ground to counter attack, if not punish, 4B+K works wonders in causing whiffs and sending the opponent back to square 1.
When in point blank, Siegfried is in a very uncomfortable position, however he nevertheless has a series of steady pokes: 4K is a phenomenally good move for Sieg, it ducks all highs, hits mid and knocks down on Counter hit. 6A kills their step dead, causing a heavy knockdown and re-spacing them. a+k[ A] coupled with 1K gives your opponent a stark choice: block low, or start to face stance mixups and you always have your 4B+K backstep to bait whiffs. Your old faithful for all other situations is B6 - it pushes back, leaves opponent in FC on hit and gives you that little burst of momentum you need. If all else fails your panic button is SSH A+B. Don't overuse this move, your opponent will just jump in and kill you. Use it only when necessary and it is in my opinion, Siegfried's 3rd best move.
Executing iag:A
This is almost impossible to perform on a pad, unless you have fiddled with yoour controls. This is why we have A+B bound to right shoulder: think of it as a 3 part slide - a slide g slide RB/R1. Make a smooth, fast motion with your thumb from A to G then slam your finger onto RB/R1. It takes practice, but is relatively easy to learn and becomes second nature quickly. It also provides Sieg with some pretty heavy LEFT ringout potential, not to mention advantage on block and good Soul guage damage.
*Note*
Zombiebear has a slightly umm... alternative method for doing this, so if you would like to learn it, PM him as his pad is set up differantly on face buttons and I don't want to confuse anybody here.
Combos:
All the B&B (bread and butter) combos you will ever need are to be found in this thread:
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/time-to-fly-v1-1-siegfried-combos.650/
Techtraps to be found here:
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-tech-trap-discussion.5724/
Wall combos:
Same as above:
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-wall-combos.1582/
Key Moves:
We have already touched on Siegfried's most gerenrally useful moves. In this section we will talk about these moves in much more detail. As of this point, the guide will become much more technical.
Frame Data
If you don't understand how frame data works or how to apply it, take a look at this thread and you should get a good idea of how to apply it.
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/frame-data-and-you-a-laymans-guide.2800/
A link to Siegfried's frame data is below and I would strongly recommend if not knowing it inside out, to at least become vaguely familiar with it. It may appear daunting at first, but if you do find it a bit much, using it as a reference works well to.
http://www.8wayrun.com/wiki/siegfried-frame-data-sc4/
The frame data was written by Slayer X64 and whilst he knows Siegfried like the back of his hand, he does use A LOT of detail (which I approve of) and if anything there confuses you, while I could answer any questions you may have, questions on this topic are best directed at him as they are his area of expertise.
22[ B]
This is one of my favourite moves: on block it is +1, giving something Sieg rarely gets in his moves if they are blocked - advantage. It also transitions into my personal favourite stance, SSH.
The weakness of this move is, like so many of Siegfried's moves at close range. In SSH, his only attack with any real speed is SSH K at i15. Due to your +1 advantage, this means the move in this situation is effectively i14, which is fast, but it does'nt change the fact that it is high and against Sophitia for example, in this situation she can 236:B you and there is absolutely nothing you can do, it will always hit. Whether you stand and eat it on Normal hit or risk a Counter hit in case she goes for heavier punishment is your choice. This typically is not a major problem however as against the vast majority of the cast it links smoothly into a basic mixup: SSH K and SSH A+B. Either your opponent can go for a quick poke with a tech crouch eg. most character's 2A's to kill SSH K, or go for a jumping attack if they have one with enough range against SSH A+B, eg. Mitsu 9A+B. They can also simply jump in to keep at close range and out of Siegfried's comfort zone, but this marks an aggressive player which is a good sign, because they are more susceptible to Counter hit, which suits Siegfried to the ground. At low to mid level, the typical choice in this situation is to just block low and to get up if they see SSH B. This is the best outcome you can hope for in my opinion as it basically assures you a free stance transition without risk. This includes cancelling into neutral, where you can continue to press your offence or switching into SRSH for example.
At higher level, characters with stronger step may attempt a backstep and immediately go for a whiff punish which they expect to hit, to which Siegfried still has an answer. In this situation employ SSH[ B], 9 times out of 10 if they go for an attack it will interrupt anything with sufficient range to hit Sieg and if they block, it will be blocked at tip range, which is neutral on block and will have spaced them nicely. If you are sure they will backstep into an attack go for SSH AA for a counter hit and send them flying away from you. They can simply backstep again and take themselves out of the danger zone altogether, BUT just because you are in stance does NOT mean you have to attack and should this happen you're opponent wil have stepped straight into the perfect range to attack with Siegfried. If my opponent does this, I favour: 22[ B], cancel stance, iag:A mixup with B6 and 2A.
At tip range, its a good idea to sit back and see what your opponent likes to do in this situation first, then adapt your mixups accordingly. Do they charge? Freeze? Back off? It's a great oppertunity to get a read on what kind of player your opponent is. Be wary against Sophita though, if blocked at tip range she can and will take half your health bar for it... I'm not joking.
Few characters can shut 22[ B] down entirely and those who can't have no choice but to suffer a mixup, which tips the balance in Siegfried's favour whichever way you look at it. Regardless of your own level of play, or your opponents, it's a good solid move and every Siegfried should use it where possible.
It is very important not to confuse 22[ B] with 88[ B], they look very similair but it is possible to differentiate the two and 88[ B] on block will lose to anything i19 or faster so be careful. On the other hand on hit the 88[ B], SRSH B, 3B_3[ B] combo spaces very well and deals meaty damage. You can't abuse this move - it is situational and should be respected as such.
iag:A
*NOTE*
This is also known as the Jink Slash on this Soul Arena, due to the amount Jink abuses it XD. If you see that term, it means iag:A, so don't be confused.
A widely held belief is that due to Siegfried's relatively unthreatening low game he has nothing to make you want to duck often and is therefor a weakness. This is both ignorant and wrong. Whilst his low game indeed lacks anything paticularly powerful and fast, his high game more than makes up for it. iag:A is instrumental in ensuring this, it is such a strong move that nobody wants to even block and his throw game only serves to strengthen this. Whilst throws are breakable, it is a 50/50 gamble for your opponent and Siegfried's grapple range is such that they deserve rightly to be feared. Fear of these two moves causes many opponents to naturally twitchduck (flick to low guard and back) which is where his powerful mids come in.
Arguably Siegfried's most spammable move. It has excellent range, heavy knockdown on hit, rings out to the left and gives advantage on block. It is i18, which by defenition is fairly slow for a high attack, but impossible to duck on reaction and relative to Siegfried's moveset, reasonably quick and crushes the soul gauge in 15 blocks. If you don't already use this move, USE IT! As I stated earlier, it can be difficult at first, but if you set up your pad with appropriate binds (inputs on the shoulder buttons) its just a matter of practice. This video made by Slayer may also help:
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-videos.178/page-21#post-206021
iag:A can also link into SRSH by holding A - ie. iag:A but its -10 on block and leaves you in stance - I'm yet to find a use for this move that would help me practically.
This move is excellent: it shuts down movement. Dead. It provides a +2 advantage on block and more importantly gives you a chance to build some momentum. Used at close range its important to be aware of Sieg's poor speed and judge your own actions based on the opposing character. For example, if my opponent was Kilik and he wanted to interrupt me, I know he's likely to either go for 6AAA or 46B for the counterhit as they are both i13. Anticipating this I would use 3[ B], duck his high and get my own counterhit launch. If he anticipated this situation and used Asura Dance to auto GI me and take 80ish dmg, I can counter with 4K for less damage, but also less risk as it will still duck the previously mentioned highs. If he expected this and sidestepped, I could use 6A_6[A] to catch his step and get an easy knockdown. As 6A is i15, with a +2 advantage it would trade with his i13's and as it is high, will get past the auto GI on Asura dance, therefor minimising the risks. Should he expect this outcome, and go for WSB, 3[ B] will launch him.
Long story short it sends you and your opponent straight into a guessing game, which is why many characters will stay on the defence, paticularly the slower ones: here you can iag:A them again... and again... and again to force them to be more agressive OR to duck, or eat a critical finish - any will do. It allows you to manipulate your opponent and sets you up for some serious mindgames.
As a prime example, I once played a Mitsurugi, got him next to the edge, iag:A, blocked, iag:A, blocked, iag:A, blocked *he ducks* 3A and ringed him out XD. iag:A deserves a lot of love - it is key to playing Sieg well, but there is an art to using it. You have to use it enough to make your opponent want to duck, but not so much that they actually duck it.
It is best used generally at tip range. There are, like so many instances, exceptions - but for general play it's best at tip.
4K
Regardless of how good you are as a player, at some point, your opponent is going to force through your spacing and push up close. While Siegfried simply can't compete in this position with other characters (Unless your opponent is significantly worse than you... Or if you're online, everything becoming safe and all XD...) he is not completely stranded; there are several tools he can still use to regain control and arguably, the best tool for this job is 4K. Unlike the majority of Siegfried's pokes, (paticularly his mid pokes) this move only has a minor disadvantage when guarded, with advantage on hit and a knockdown on counterhit that is one of Siegfried's best forward ringout moves.
So why is minor disadvantage such a good thing? Simple. Siegfried's close range safe pokes for the most part are only just safe, which means if the attack is blocked, your offence stops dead there. With minor disadvantage however, your options are much more open.
You can NOT just keep on attacking mindlessly. Let me make that clear.
What we have instead is another mixup situation: for this example, I will use Yoshimitsu as this is one of the hardest situations for Siegfried considering just how dangerous Yoshi is at close range. He in this situation has many more options than you, but Siegfried has answers to each, BUT you have to be willing to gamble. This is only recommended if you are a manly man, but if you're not, frankly, you're not cut out to play Siegfried.
The first option you have to be willing to overcome is iMCF, Yoshi's i9 supermove. At point blank, the pushback from the move is not sufficient to backstep to safety, attempt this and iMCF will counter hit you. However if you're sure this is what they will attempt, employ 4B+K: the backstep to SSH will avoid the attack and give you a spacing oppertunity. Against Yoshimitsu, always have an option open to handle iMCF - this move has to be feared - it leads to incredible ringout potential and it is theoretically possible to land an infinite combo from this, though it is incredibally unlikely. For this reason it is Yoshimitsu's best poke at close range and if you are not very careful a Yoshi player can destroy you very easily with it.
Whilst iMCF is their option should they think you will backstep/attack, it is susceptible to evasion. For this reason you must also expect aB+K to kill your step, if it does it combos into iMCF and you eat the infamous combo anyway. The weakness to this is that it is high, and just the right speed to be ducked perfectly by Siegfried's 3B into a combo of your own.
Other examples of options Yoshi has are: 2A, 6K, BB, iFC3K, bA if they feel you will attack.
The point is that Siegfried has the oppertunity to continue his offence, but you must be willing to take a chance to do so, even in the worst situations.
Against very punishment centred players, they may just sit back and let you continue to attack as they prefer to just go in for garuntees rather than take risks, but this is down to the individual player, not their character. Read your opponent. If this situation does occur, its a prime oppertunity to respace your opponent - if you can't damage them, take away their hard fought advantage as punishment for hesitation.
The best thing about this move however is that it is a mid that ducks highs. It is important to remember two things about this move:
Number 1 - It's i19 and isn't going to win any speed contests.
Number 2 - It's tech crouch (built in crouch) only begins on the 11th frame. Do not use this move at disadvantage and expect it to duck quick highs, they will interrupt you before you begin crouching and nobody wants to give away counter hits.
Overall, a very very good slowish poke, in an emergency it is your friend.
3[ B]
Situational, but nevertheless one of Siegfried's best moves, 3 [ B] is a core aspect of most, if not all Siegfried playstyles.
It is i17, again not very fast, but between frames 6-14 there is a techcrouch - this property makes it an excellent move - the crouch begins early, ends late and the window is pretty much perfect to avoid highs in situations of minor advantage OR disadvantage. If you can't put this into context - allow me to explain:
Imagine you are at neutral with your opponent - you attack with 3[ B]. If the opponent goes for a high - it must be between i15 and i16 to hit without trading blows, how many highs fit into this catagory? Very few that your opponent would consider poking with. As a mid poke, i17 is reasonably fast and generally only loses to generic 2A or 1K. As such it is very easy to land and this is where it comes into its real stride. At close range it Launches on hit, SUPERLAUNCHES on counter hit and is a great punisher to unsafes. At long range, its range allows it to punish whilst spacing, but you get no juicy launch, instead we get +6, which at range is a big advantage!
If it is blocked, it is punishable, but your opponent must be on their toes - on block it is -5 which means i15 and faster moves will beat out any SCH action, i16's trading.
If you do catch them slouching, SCH K will beat out their slower counterattacks, landing on counter hit with a good strong +8 advantage, if this happens, SCH K and A are COMPLETELY UNINTERRUPTABLE, if your opponent knows this, begin stance roulette, if they don't, rack up the counter hits - it all adds up!
The safety of this move at mid range is hardly an issue however, with a healthy gap between you and your opponent - only a few characters can punish with a move that covers enough distance to catch you out every time, so for the most part this is a powerful spacing tool.
It can also be used aggressively as a rushdown tactic - throws may be a 50/50 but it is a heavy penalty to pay should your opponent guess wrong, this can force crouch in a rushdown situation so mix in 3[ B] for a launcher.
As I say: Job's a good'n
WS[ B] or iWS[ B]
iWS[ B] differs from WS[ B] as it is the notation for 'instant while rising'. This is done by twitchducking and immediately going back to neutral while inputting your attack. This gives access to the while rising moveset. In other words, this technique effectively allows you to use a while rising move from standing. There is of course a penalty to pay for doing this: the move you use will be effectively 5 frames slower as time is taken first crouching then cancelling the crouch. It is a very useful technique for Siegfried players as iWS[ B] is a great move and leaves you with a multitude of options even when blocked.
First of all, WS[ B] is your best punisher in FC state. It is i17 so your opponent will have taken a serious risk to leave them open to this punisher - you shouldn't let them get away with that as it delivers a good KND which can either be followed up with SCH B OR you can take a gamble and use stance roulette pressure to potentially cause even more damage, your choice. A common mistake new Siegfrieds (paticularly online) make is trying to punish with WS AA. This is an NCC and will not combo, the last hit is blockable and EXTREMELY PUNISHABLE, do not make this mistake.
Examples of moves punishable by WS[ B] are:
Mitsu k:B.
Ivy WP 6AA if yoou duck the final hit.
Cervantes 1A.
In essence, WS[ B] is much like 3[ B], but with much less risk as if your opponent guesses right and blocks it, you are forced into SCH on a -1 disadvantage rather than a -5. In most cases this is no real problem - only characters with i11 or faster attacks can shut down this situation entirely, this is specific to only a few characters, for example Xianghua. If however they cannot shut you down, the ball is still in your court, they can escape all your immediate SCH options by immediately stepping to Siegfried's left and crouching. Should they attempt an attack without auto GI cover SCH K will give you a +8 advantage. Should they play smart and take the evasive option, a delayed SCH B will KND giving great oki (Wakeup games) or you can take a free stance transition and apply further pressure. It also works the soul guage nicely, breaking it in 13 blocks. If you are willing to sacrifice range it is a very good alternative to 3[ B] in many situations.
It is also hit confirmable, which means you can take real time choices on how to followup based on how it hits:
On block: make your choice, suggestions above (note some characters can shut it down - if you think they will, let them hit you and deny them a counter hit eg. Xianghua AAB, if they dont confirm the normal hit, block the B and punish with 3[ B].)
On normal hit: Either followup to maximise damage or continue pressure.
On counter hit: Use SCH k[ B], SBH combo or techtrap - choose.
*Note as it will trade with i12's, be aware that it will trade with IVY SW 1A and she can combo you even through the hitstun... Fucking Ivy...*
B6
This move should speak for itself so I'll be brief:
This is a safe mid that breaks the Guage in 15 blocks. At range it is mostly spammable on hit as it forces crouch - if your opponent tries to step (as it doesn't track) by tapping 2, they will get slammed by another. This is your ranged punisher for crouching if the opponent preempts an ag:A, if you're not confident enough to commit to 3[ B]. On hit or counter hit the advantage is a tiny +1, but the crouch it forces makes up for this. Characters with strong FC games, such as Sophie, Cassie or Sets will give you a headache but mostly its pretty spammable.
2A
Before I talk about this move I want to make myself very clear:
I do not personally like this move - at all.
However, a lot of Siegfried's swear by it so I will include it as a core move because I can still appreciate its uses and so should you.
ANYWAY...
This is Siegfried's longest ranged low poke: it actually hits a little further than the weapon itself and tracks to the right hand side. It is i19, so it is fairly slow, but it carries a meaty tech crouch from the ninth frame all the way to the hit's impact, so its lack of speed is justified. Unlike generic 2A's, Siegfrieds hits low and as such catches many people off guard, paticularly in a clutch situation (end of a round - where only one more hit is needed). If you do choose to use this move in your strategy understand this:
It HAS to be used at full tip range: Understandably, it is unsafe on block, but it is -8 on hit and -4 on counter hit. If you land this anywhere other than a safe distance (depending on the character) your offence stops dead here. In a clutch at close range it turns the round into a 50:50 - if they get hit you win, if it is blocked - You WILL lose. Situational but it has its uses and is defenitely worth exploring.
Ring Out Potential
*Note* When I say normal hit - I mean the hit that will inflict the ring out need only be on normal hit - however your opponent may be able to block it on a string.*
Normal Hit
Forwards:
A+G
FCA+G
1AA
8A_9A
WS AA
BBB_BB[ B]
B2A_B2[ A]
6B
3B_3[ B]
3KKB
A+Ka2AA
A+KA2AA
a+ka2AA
44K
66A+B
Full run K
SBH A
SBH B
SBH A+B
SCH [ B]
SSH AA
SRSH A+B
Backwards:
FCB+G
1B
Left:
ag:A
66A
66KA
11_99K
SSH K (Normal hit ONLY)
Right:
3A
1AA
A+Ka2AA
A+KA2AA
a+ka2AA
Counter hit only
Forwards:
4K
9K
A+KK
Backwards:
-
Left:
-
Right:
6A_6[A]
A+KK
As a little extra to add to Siegfried's already good side RO game, here's a neat little trick for Left side RO:
Siegfrieds Left side throw has backward RO potential, so if you step in, step left and throw, should the throw connect, there is a 50% chance of instant death. This is a trick you will find employed regularly by Xianghua players, but it also applies to Siegfried. Bear in mind however that due to Siegfried's weak sidestep, you must make a full step to achieve this, don't step G.
Punishment:
Standing:
-13< :K 12 dmg +2 Advantage
-14< :6K 18 dmg -1 Disadvantage
-15< :6A 24 dmg -2 Disadvantage OR 6[A] for +2 Advantage in Stance
-16< :B6 20 dmg +1 Advantage
-16< :a+k[A], SCH A 62 dmg, -3 Disadvantage (Very fucking difficult to buffer and only punishes at close range.)
-17< :3[ B] SCH K 40 dmg KND with good wakes. 3[ B] only at tip for 18 dmg and +7 Advantage.
-24< :1B 63 dmg KND Behind. At tip 28 dmg with good pushback.
Crouching:
-15< : WSK 22 dmg +4 Advantage
-17< : WS[ B] SCH B 36 dmg KND
Mixups:
Way back in the day when I was a scrub, (about a year ago XD) I started experimenting with stance roulette, and mixups therein, while this section will focus on mixups in neutral - give this thread I made a read as it will give a general idea on things to try out, even if some of the ideas are outdated (which by now they probably are).
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/mixups-and-mind-games-a-lehmans-guide.6097/
Stance mixups are something that I believe are completely unique to each Siegfried, which is why playing him is so much fun, no two Siegfried's are alike. As such I will proceed to talk about neutral mixups to get started with and let you make your own way with stance stuff, the thread linked above will give you a couple of ideas.
A/a+kA
These moves mixup well as they have identical animations, save one differance: A impacts 3 frames slower than a+kA, but in a fight this is indistinguishable and this is therefore a very powerful mixup as the properties are very differant:
A is only -2 on Block +4 on Hit and +6 on Counter Hit meaning it gives fair advantage, but it is practically neutral on block, which at range means against most characters you can power through with your offense.
a+kA on the other hand is is -10 on Block, HOWEVER it is +10 (which is MASSIVE) on Normal OR Counter Hit.
As your opponent cannot tell the differance between the two attacks they have to assume worst case scenario and thus assume either hit to be -2 on block AND +10 on Hit. This may look like an inconsiderable move by animation, but it is a scary tactic as your opponent has no real idea what you've done - giving you a significant mental advantage. Use them to enter stance and their troubles are magnified.
[A] is -1 on block and leaves you in SSH giving you options if it is blocked - though I have mentioned the weakness of SSH against characters like Sophitia, however, against most of the cast - the mixup becomes LETHAL.
a+k[A] is -4 and leaves you in SCH - though this makes your options interruptable fear of SSH actually gives you an advantage. The most commonplace answer to SSH is to duck and react to SSH B, whereas this is a bad idea vs. SCH as B will send you into nasty oki. If you mix occasional a+k[A] with a lot of [A], you can fairly easily catch a defensive opponent out.
Not bad for a 'basic' high poke, hm?
BB/B2A_B2A4 SCH
B2A delivers a good, powerful KND, is chargeable and cancellable into SCH. This gives you a series of powerful mind games to answer the options of all of the cast, save its fatal weakness - it is interruptable before the second hit. BB however is another option to the string which will catch any mindless interruption and although it is -14 and thus slightly unsafe, fear of the third hit makes it harder to punish.
It is a situational and uncommon mixup among Siegfried's but by no means useless - there are situations for it and it can play havoc with your opponent's head.
*NOTE - this mixup is susceptible to Mid Agi attacks such as Kilik's Asura Dance or Cassandra's 4B+K*
A+KK/Remaining A+K series
This mixup is pretty simple - A+KK kills interrupt and crouching - leaving you free to mixup the remaining series at your leisure.
a+kA2A/a+kA2AA
The first low hit is safe on block and gives a good strong advantage on hit - there is no obligation to continue the series. Occasionally mix in the final hit to deliver a KND to an opponent immediately counterattacking - punish their aggression, fear of the second hit will allow you to continue offence against a lazy opponent even on block. It is pretty punishable (FC -19) but if mixed in sparsely this should present no problem. Unless fighting a punisher as adept as Xianghua or Sophita, I always say: Yes, Siegfried's moves are very punishable - only if you block them though =P.
My first post on 8wayrun was a thread on this series of attacks, so follow the link below and you will see a more detailed study contributed by Zombiebear666 and quite an amusing argument ^^(Yes, I was a scrub back then, hahaha.)
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-has-triple-grounder-suck-it-nightmare.5632/
Grab/Mid
This is a pretty crude mixup, but it is still a powerful one - many players would even go so far as to say it is the crux of playing Siegfried well. Nightmare players will already be familiar with this strategy, but to everybody else:
Basically, throw the shit out of them untill they start ducking out of panic, then slam them hard with your KND mids. Scary as hell to fight against.
Practical Application
OK, so you've worked through the guide and now hopefully have a good iea of how you're going to play him. Now what?
Follow this link to see Siegfried in action - there are videos to be found here from practically all the Siegfried players to have graced this soul arena & I personally believe practical application to be the best way to learn.
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-videos.178/
I hope you found this guide useful and will continue to learn Siegfried. I hope you will eventually master him.
As Cradle of Filth said, 'Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder'.
Credits go out to the entire Siegfried Soul Arena who one way or another helped this guide to be made with their contributions, ideas and styles. You know who you are.
Contents:
1: The Tab
2: Pad or Stick?
3: Setting up your pad
4: Stances
5: Fundamental Strategy
6: Summary of Tools
7: Combos
8: Wall Combos
9: In-depth look at Key Moves
10: Ring Out Potential
11: Punishment
12: Mixups
13: Practical Application
The Tab:
This guide uses standard tab. If you are unconfident with understanding it, use the table below as a referance as it makes life a lot simpler for everybody. It may seem intimidating at first but it will eventually become second nature.
[wiki]movelist-input-guide[/wiki]
1. Pad (Controller) or Stick?
Whilst I personally play stick nowadays, I learned on a pad and I honestly believe it makes absolutely no differance when playing Siegfried as his tough inputs can be worked around relatively easily.
As this is for new players, I will assume for this guide you are playing on a pad as few newbies will invest in an arcade stick so quickly.
2. Setting up your pad.
The shoulder buttons on a pad can be set up in options to register as any input you so choose. Every Siegfried pad user has a differant set-up, but the one I used is:
LB / L1 - B+G
LT/ L2 - A+K
RB / R1 - A+B
RT / R2 - B+K
SlayerX64 on the other hand uses:
LB / L1 - B+K
LT / L2 - A+B
RB / R1 - B+G
RT / R2 - A+K
The reason for each will become clear later in the guide, if you prefer a differant set-up, I would strongly advise that even if placed differantly, you use these four inputs as it makes life a LOT easier. Many of you will have noticed there is now no input to execute a critical finish. Don't worry, pressing B+G and A+K simultaneously will do it, so instead of pressing one shoulder button, you would press two.
Heaton has a slightly differant set up to us two however:
LB/L1 - A+K
LT/L2 - A+G
RB/R1 - A+B
RT/R2 - B+G
Two reasons for this:
1st, he is a total throw whore.
2nd, he's special and we love him. =3
3. Stances
Siegfried has the third largest number of stances in the game - second to Maxi and Yoshimitsu.
Understanding these stances is CRUCIAL to playing Siegfried. Siegfried has four stances:
Side Hold 4B+K
Chief Hold 2_8B+K
Base Hold B+K
Reverse Side Hold 6B+K
I will quickly go over the options of each stance:
Side Hold (SSH)
AA - To relatively slow low hits, will knock down and combo on Counter hit, on Normal hit the 2nd hit is blockable and unsafe.
[ A] - Single low hit that will knock down on Counter hit, advantage on normal hit, unsafe on block. Automatically transitions from SSH to SRSH.
B - Slow mid hit, knocks down on hit, unsafe on block, but only just - difficult for some sharacters to punish, automatically GI's high horizontals.
*NOTE* It CAN just impact unblockables - I once Just impacted the Apprentice's force lightning with the auto GI ^_^.
[ B] - Transitions into Base Hold, same propertiesd on hit, NEUTRAL on block - no disadvantage WHATSOEVER.
K - High kick, Slightly unsafe on block, knocks down on hit and stuns on counter hit, making moves 16 frames or faster garunteed. Fastest attack in stance.
A+B - Low hit, same speed as SSH A series, but has a MONUMENTAL backstep, unsafe on block but almost impossible for most of the cast to punish, unless your back is to a wall/edge.
Can manually shift into any other stance.
Chief Hold (SCH)
A - High hit into Mid hit, pushes back very well. Safe on block, slight disadvantage on hit/ Counter hit. FAST
[ A] - High hit into automatic transition into SSH. Slightly more disadvantage on block, same properties on hit/ Counter hit. FAST
B - Mid hit, knocks down on hit, neutral on hit at tip range. Can be charged into a Guard crush for advantage, semi-charged it gives less disadvantage on guard, safe anyway though =/
K - Mid kick, Siegfried's fastest move, good advantage on hit and Counter hit, disadvantage on block.
KK - Mid kick, High kick. Combos with first hit, will whiff if first hit lands on rouching opponent. Disadvantage on block, slight advantage on hit.
kB - Combos on counterhit, slightly unsafe on HIT and super unsafe on block, stuns on Counterhit. WORTHLESS.
k[ B] - advantage on hit, minor disadvantage on block.
A+B - Slow high, ridiculous range, safe on block, painful knockdown on hit. Cool as hell!
Can manually shift to any other stance.
Base Hold (SBH)
A - Slow high, knockdown on hit, safe on block. Good for wall combos.
B - The superlauncher! Safe on block, there are faster unblockables than this move though. XD
K - Fastest option, mid, knocks down on hit, very unsafe.
[ K] - 3 mid hits, knockdown on hit, safe on block, slow slow slow and linear.
A+B - The infamous lag tactic. Jump into a low, slow, safe on block, knockdown on hit. Abuse this online and I hope you die ^_~
Can manually shift into any stance
*NOTE* Stance will auto GI any horizontal, but there is a window where it will not. Any hit landed on you in this stance is automatically a Counterhit, so be careful where you use it!
Reverse Side Hold (SRSH)
A - Long range stuppidly slow high, unsafe, disadvantage on hit - UTTERLY USELESS MOVE
[ A] - Slight advantage on hit, slight disadvantage on block - ALSO USELESS
B - Unsafe on block, nasty combos on hit.
K - SUPER unsafe on block, crumple stun on hit.
[ K] - Significant disadvantage on block, combos SRSH A+B on hit.
A+B - Heavy knockdown mid. Safe on block, brutally rapes the soul gauge.
Can manually shift into any stance.
4. Fundamental strategy
Siegfried is all about spacing and mixup. He Works with a series of Heavy duty knockdowns, and excellent range, which to some characters can be dealt with, but to others can become a very bitter struggle to even get close enough to mount a significant offense. His stances can be employed to confuse the opponent and pressure them into making mistakes - which will cost them dearly. His movement is poor, but still able to be employed in certain situations, however his tools make it very easy to shut down your opponent's movement at close range, taking away an adavntage they would otherwise have.
5. Tools
Throws:
There is ABSOLUTELY no shame in abusing/spamming throws with Siegfried at close range. His throwing range is excellent, his A+G throw rings out forward, deals good damage and his B+G deals even more. Whilst throws are breakable, mixing them up makes life very very frustrating for an opponent. More importantly though is the fear of throws, to escape the mixup your opponent is likely to twitchduck a lot at disadvantage, employ your heavy mids and deal a significant blow such as 3A or iWS[ B]. Force your opponent back out to mid range, scare them away! If you feel your opponent is still a little close for comfort, employ what is called a vacuum grab, step forward straight into a throw as he has generally bad movement but his frontstep is fantastic. This is why you must have a B+G bind - the mixup should be second nature and not hindered by input.
Maintaining Offence:
Siegfried's frames would suggest that he has a one hit attack style, but it is equally important to understand advantage through range. I personally believe Siegfried's best range is the tip range of iag:A, or 3B. At this range, your opponent is in range of your heavy hits, which may well be unsafe ion block, but because of the sheer distance between the two of you, they are in absolutely no position to capitalise on it.
When you are in this sweet spot, your strongest tools are:
22[ B]
iag:A
B6
66A
3A
2A
KEEP APPLYING THE PRESSURE
Sooner or later, either your opponent's defence, or their soul gauge will shatter - beat them like a drum untill it happens. If you feel your opponent has covered sufficient ground to counter attack, if not punish, 4B+K works wonders in causing whiffs and sending the opponent back to square 1.
When in point blank, Siegfried is in a very uncomfortable position, however he nevertheless has a series of steady pokes: 4K is a phenomenally good move for Sieg, it ducks all highs, hits mid and knocks down on Counter hit. 6A kills their step dead, causing a heavy knockdown and re-spacing them. a+k[ A] coupled with 1K gives your opponent a stark choice: block low, or start to face stance mixups and you always have your 4B+K backstep to bait whiffs. Your old faithful for all other situations is B6 - it pushes back, leaves opponent in FC on hit and gives you that little burst of momentum you need. If all else fails your panic button is SSH A+B. Don't overuse this move, your opponent will just jump in and kill you. Use it only when necessary and it is in my opinion, Siegfried's 3rd best move.
Executing iag:A
This is almost impossible to perform on a pad, unless you have fiddled with yoour controls. This is why we have A+B bound to right shoulder: think of it as a 3 part slide - a slide g slide RB/R1. Make a smooth, fast motion with your thumb from A to G then slam your finger onto RB/R1. It takes practice, but is relatively easy to learn and becomes second nature quickly. It also provides Sieg with some pretty heavy LEFT ringout potential, not to mention advantage on block and good Soul guage damage.
*Note*
Zombiebear has a slightly umm... alternative method for doing this, so if you would like to learn it, PM him as his pad is set up differantly on face buttons and I don't want to confuse anybody here.
Combos:
All the B&B (bread and butter) combos you will ever need are to be found in this thread:
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/time-to-fly-v1-1-siegfried-combos.650/
Techtraps to be found here:
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-tech-trap-discussion.5724/
Wall combos:
Same as above:
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-wall-combos.1582/
Key Moves:
We have already touched on Siegfried's most gerenrally useful moves. In this section we will talk about these moves in much more detail. As of this point, the guide will become much more technical.
Frame Data
If you don't understand how frame data works or how to apply it, take a look at this thread and you should get a good idea of how to apply it.
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/frame-data-and-you-a-laymans-guide.2800/
A link to Siegfried's frame data is below and I would strongly recommend if not knowing it inside out, to at least become vaguely familiar with it. It may appear daunting at first, but if you do find it a bit much, using it as a reference works well to.
http://www.8wayrun.com/wiki/siegfried-frame-data-sc4/
The frame data was written by Slayer X64 and whilst he knows Siegfried like the back of his hand, he does use A LOT of detail (which I approve of) and if anything there confuses you, while I could answer any questions you may have, questions on this topic are best directed at him as they are his area of expertise.
22[ B]
This is one of my favourite moves: on block it is +1, giving something Sieg rarely gets in his moves if they are blocked - advantage. It also transitions into my personal favourite stance, SSH.
The weakness of this move is, like so many of Siegfried's moves at close range. In SSH, his only attack with any real speed is SSH K at i15. Due to your +1 advantage, this means the move in this situation is effectively i14, which is fast, but it does'nt change the fact that it is high and against Sophitia for example, in this situation she can 236:B you and there is absolutely nothing you can do, it will always hit. Whether you stand and eat it on Normal hit or risk a Counter hit in case she goes for heavier punishment is your choice. This typically is not a major problem however as against the vast majority of the cast it links smoothly into a basic mixup: SSH K and SSH A+B. Either your opponent can go for a quick poke with a tech crouch eg. most character's 2A's to kill SSH K, or go for a jumping attack if they have one with enough range against SSH A+B, eg. Mitsu 9A+B. They can also simply jump in to keep at close range and out of Siegfried's comfort zone, but this marks an aggressive player which is a good sign, because they are more susceptible to Counter hit, which suits Siegfried to the ground. At low to mid level, the typical choice in this situation is to just block low and to get up if they see SSH B. This is the best outcome you can hope for in my opinion as it basically assures you a free stance transition without risk. This includes cancelling into neutral, where you can continue to press your offence or switching into SRSH for example.
At higher level, characters with stronger step may attempt a backstep and immediately go for a whiff punish which they expect to hit, to which Siegfried still has an answer. In this situation employ SSH[ B], 9 times out of 10 if they go for an attack it will interrupt anything with sufficient range to hit Sieg and if they block, it will be blocked at tip range, which is neutral on block and will have spaced them nicely. If you are sure they will backstep into an attack go for SSH AA for a counter hit and send them flying away from you. They can simply backstep again and take themselves out of the danger zone altogether, BUT just because you are in stance does NOT mean you have to attack and should this happen you're opponent wil have stepped straight into the perfect range to attack with Siegfried. If my opponent does this, I favour: 22[ B], cancel stance, iag:A mixup with B6 and 2A.
At tip range, its a good idea to sit back and see what your opponent likes to do in this situation first, then adapt your mixups accordingly. Do they charge? Freeze? Back off? It's a great oppertunity to get a read on what kind of player your opponent is. Be wary against Sophita though, if blocked at tip range she can and will take half your health bar for it... I'm not joking.
Few characters can shut 22[ B] down entirely and those who can't have no choice but to suffer a mixup, which tips the balance in Siegfried's favour whichever way you look at it. Regardless of your own level of play, or your opponents, it's a good solid move and every Siegfried should use it where possible.
It is very important not to confuse 22[ B] with 88[ B], they look very similair but it is possible to differentiate the two and 88[ B] on block will lose to anything i19 or faster so be careful. On the other hand on hit the 88[ B], SRSH B, 3B_3[ B] combo spaces very well and deals meaty damage. You can't abuse this move - it is situational and should be respected as such.
iag:A
*NOTE*
This is also known as the Jink Slash on this Soul Arena, due to the amount Jink abuses it XD. If you see that term, it means iag:A, so don't be confused.
A widely held belief is that due to Siegfried's relatively unthreatening low game he has nothing to make you want to duck often and is therefor a weakness. This is both ignorant and wrong. Whilst his low game indeed lacks anything paticularly powerful and fast, his high game more than makes up for it. iag:A is instrumental in ensuring this, it is such a strong move that nobody wants to even block and his throw game only serves to strengthen this. Whilst throws are breakable, it is a 50/50 gamble for your opponent and Siegfried's grapple range is such that they deserve rightly to be feared. Fear of these two moves causes many opponents to naturally twitchduck (flick to low guard and back) which is where his powerful mids come in.
Arguably Siegfried's most spammable move. It has excellent range, heavy knockdown on hit, rings out to the left and gives advantage on block. It is i18, which by defenition is fairly slow for a high attack, but impossible to duck on reaction and relative to Siegfried's moveset, reasonably quick and crushes the soul gauge in 15 blocks. If you don't already use this move, USE IT! As I stated earlier, it can be difficult at first, but if you set up your pad with appropriate binds (inputs on the shoulder buttons) its just a matter of practice. This video made by Slayer may also help:
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-videos.178/page-21#post-206021
iag:A can also link into SRSH by holding A - ie. iag:A but its -10 on block and leaves you in stance - I'm yet to find a use for this move that would help me practically.
This move is excellent: it shuts down movement. Dead. It provides a +2 advantage on block and more importantly gives you a chance to build some momentum. Used at close range its important to be aware of Sieg's poor speed and judge your own actions based on the opposing character. For example, if my opponent was Kilik and he wanted to interrupt me, I know he's likely to either go for 6AAA or 46B for the counterhit as they are both i13. Anticipating this I would use 3[ B], duck his high and get my own counterhit launch. If he anticipated this situation and used Asura Dance to auto GI me and take 80ish dmg, I can counter with 4K for less damage, but also less risk as it will still duck the previously mentioned highs. If he expected this and sidestepped, I could use 6A_6[A] to catch his step and get an easy knockdown. As 6A is i15, with a +2 advantage it would trade with his i13's and as it is high, will get past the auto GI on Asura dance, therefor minimising the risks. Should he expect this outcome, and go for WSB, 3[ B] will launch him.
Long story short it sends you and your opponent straight into a guessing game, which is why many characters will stay on the defence, paticularly the slower ones: here you can iag:A them again... and again... and again to force them to be more agressive OR to duck, or eat a critical finish - any will do. It allows you to manipulate your opponent and sets you up for some serious mindgames.
As a prime example, I once played a Mitsurugi, got him next to the edge, iag:A, blocked, iag:A, blocked, iag:A, blocked *he ducks* 3A and ringed him out XD. iag:A deserves a lot of love - it is key to playing Sieg well, but there is an art to using it. You have to use it enough to make your opponent want to duck, but not so much that they actually duck it.
It is best used generally at tip range. There are, like so many instances, exceptions - but for general play it's best at tip.
4K
Regardless of how good you are as a player, at some point, your opponent is going to force through your spacing and push up close. While Siegfried simply can't compete in this position with other characters (Unless your opponent is significantly worse than you... Or if you're online, everything becoming safe and all XD...) he is not completely stranded; there are several tools he can still use to regain control and arguably, the best tool for this job is 4K. Unlike the majority of Siegfried's pokes, (paticularly his mid pokes) this move only has a minor disadvantage when guarded, with advantage on hit and a knockdown on counterhit that is one of Siegfried's best forward ringout moves.
So why is minor disadvantage such a good thing? Simple. Siegfried's close range safe pokes for the most part are only just safe, which means if the attack is blocked, your offence stops dead there. With minor disadvantage however, your options are much more open.
You can NOT just keep on attacking mindlessly. Let me make that clear.
What we have instead is another mixup situation: for this example, I will use Yoshimitsu as this is one of the hardest situations for Siegfried considering just how dangerous Yoshi is at close range. He in this situation has many more options than you, but Siegfried has answers to each, BUT you have to be willing to gamble. This is only recommended if you are a manly man, but if you're not, frankly, you're not cut out to play Siegfried.
The first option you have to be willing to overcome is iMCF, Yoshi's i9 supermove. At point blank, the pushback from the move is not sufficient to backstep to safety, attempt this and iMCF will counter hit you. However if you're sure this is what they will attempt, employ 4B+K: the backstep to SSH will avoid the attack and give you a spacing oppertunity. Against Yoshimitsu, always have an option open to handle iMCF - this move has to be feared - it leads to incredible ringout potential and it is theoretically possible to land an infinite combo from this, though it is incredibally unlikely. For this reason it is Yoshimitsu's best poke at close range and if you are not very careful a Yoshi player can destroy you very easily with it.
Whilst iMCF is their option should they think you will backstep/attack, it is susceptible to evasion. For this reason you must also expect aB+K to kill your step, if it does it combos into iMCF and you eat the infamous combo anyway. The weakness to this is that it is high, and just the right speed to be ducked perfectly by Siegfried's 3B into a combo of your own.
Other examples of options Yoshi has are: 2A, 6K, BB, iFC3K, bA if they feel you will attack.
The point is that Siegfried has the oppertunity to continue his offence, but you must be willing to take a chance to do so, even in the worst situations.
Against very punishment centred players, they may just sit back and let you continue to attack as they prefer to just go in for garuntees rather than take risks, but this is down to the individual player, not their character. Read your opponent. If this situation does occur, its a prime oppertunity to respace your opponent - if you can't damage them, take away their hard fought advantage as punishment for hesitation.
The best thing about this move however is that it is a mid that ducks highs. It is important to remember two things about this move:
Number 1 - It's i19 and isn't going to win any speed contests.
Number 2 - It's tech crouch (built in crouch) only begins on the 11th frame. Do not use this move at disadvantage and expect it to duck quick highs, they will interrupt you before you begin crouching and nobody wants to give away counter hits.
Overall, a very very good slowish poke, in an emergency it is your friend.
3[ B]
Situational, but nevertheless one of Siegfried's best moves, 3 [ B] is a core aspect of most, if not all Siegfried playstyles.
It is i17, again not very fast, but between frames 6-14 there is a techcrouch - this property makes it an excellent move - the crouch begins early, ends late and the window is pretty much perfect to avoid highs in situations of minor advantage OR disadvantage. If you can't put this into context - allow me to explain:
Imagine you are at neutral with your opponent - you attack with 3[ B]. If the opponent goes for a high - it must be between i15 and i16 to hit without trading blows, how many highs fit into this catagory? Very few that your opponent would consider poking with. As a mid poke, i17 is reasonably fast and generally only loses to generic 2A or 1K. As such it is very easy to land and this is where it comes into its real stride. At close range it Launches on hit, SUPERLAUNCHES on counter hit and is a great punisher to unsafes. At long range, its range allows it to punish whilst spacing, but you get no juicy launch, instead we get +6, which at range is a big advantage!
If it is blocked, it is punishable, but your opponent must be on their toes - on block it is -5 which means i15 and faster moves will beat out any SCH action, i16's trading.
If you do catch them slouching, SCH K will beat out their slower counterattacks, landing on counter hit with a good strong +8 advantage, if this happens, SCH K and A are COMPLETELY UNINTERRUPTABLE, if your opponent knows this, begin stance roulette, if they don't, rack up the counter hits - it all adds up!
The safety of this move at mid range is hardly an issue however, with a healthy gap between you and your opponent - only a few characters can punish with a move that covers enough distance to catch you out every time, so for the most part this is a powerful spacing tool.
It can also be used aggressively as a rushdown tactic - throws may be a 50/50 but it is a heavy penalty to pay should your opponent guess wrong, this can force crouch in a rushdown situation so mix in 3[ B] for a launcher.
As I say: Job's a good'n
WS[ B] or iWS[ B]
iWS[ B] differs from WS[ B] as it is the notation for 'instant while rising'. This is done by twitchducking and immediately going back to neutral while inputting your attack. This gives access to the while rising moveset. In other words, this technique effectively allows you to use a while rising move from standing. There is of course a penalty to pay for doing this: the move you use will be effectively 5 frames slower as time is taken first crouching then cancelling the crouch. It is a very useful technique for Siegfried players as iWS[ B] is a great move and leaves you with a multitude of options even when blocked.
First of all, WS[ B] is your best punisher in FC state. It is i17 so your opponent will have taken a serious risk to leave them open to this punisher - you shouldn't let them get away with that as it delivers a good KND which can either be followed up with SCH B OR you can take a gamble and use stance roulette pressure to potentially cause even more damage, your choice. A common mistake new Siegfrieds (paticularly online) make is trying to punish with WS AA. This is an NCC and will not combo, the last hit is blockable and EXTREMELY PUNISHABLE, do not make this mistake.
Examples of moves punishable by WS[ B] are:
Mitsu k:B.
Ivy WP 6AA if yoou duck the final hit.
Cervantes 1A.
In essence, WS[ B] is much like 3[ B], but with much less risk as if your opponent guesses right and blocks it, you are forced into SCH on a -1 disadvantage rather than a -5. In most cases this is no real problem - only characters with i11 or faster attacks can shut down this situation entirely, this is specific to only a few characters, for example Xianghua. If however they cannot shut you down, the ball is still in your court, they can escape all your immediate SCH options by immediately stepping to Siegfried's left and crouching. Should they attempt an attack without auto GI cover SCH K will give you a +8 advantage. Should they play smart and take the evasive option, a delayed SCH B will KND giving great oki (Wakeup games) or you can take a free stance transition and apply further pressure. It also works the soul guage nicely, breaking it in 13 blocks. If you are willing to sacrifice range it is a very good alternative to 3[ B] in many situations.
It is also hit confirmable, which means you can take real time choices on how to followup based on how it hits:
On block: make your choice, suggestions above (note some characters can shut it down - if you think they will, let them hit you and deny them a counter hit eg. Xianghua AAB, if they dont confirm the normal hit, block the B and punish with 3[ B].)
On normal hit: Either followup to maximise damage or continue pressure.
On counter hit: Use SCH k[ B], SBH combo or techtrap - choose.
*Note as it will trade with i12's, be aware that it will trade with IVY SW 1A and she can combo you even through the hitstun... Fucking Ivy...*
B6
This move should speak for itself so I'll be brief:
This is a safe mid that breaks the Guage in 15 blocks. At range it is mostly spammable on hit as it forces crouch - if your opponent tries to step (as it doesn't track) by tapping 2, they will get slammed by another. This is your ranged punisher for crouching if the opponent preempts an ag:A, if you're not confident enough to commit to 3[ B]. On hit or counter hit the advantage is a tiny +1, but the crouch it forces makes up for this. Characters with strong FC games, such as Sophie, Cassie or Sets will give you a headache but mostly its pretty spammable.
2A
Before I talk about this move I want to make myself very clear:
I do not personally like this move - at all.
However, a lot of Siegfried's swear by it so I will include it as a core move because I can still appreciate its uses and so should you.
ANYWAY...
This is Siegfried's longest ranged low poke: it actually hits a little further than the weapon itself and tracks to the right hand side. It is i19, so it is fairly slow, but it carries a meaty tech crouch from the ninth frame all the way to the hit's impact, so its lack of speed is justified. Unlike generic 2A's, Siegfrieds hits low and as such catches many people off guard, paticularly in a clutch situation (end of a round - where only one more hit is needed). If you do choose to use this move in your strategy understand this:
It HAS to be used at full tip range: Understandably, it is unsafe on block, but it is -8 on hit and -4 on counter hit. If you land this anywhere other than a safe distance (depending on the character) your offence stops dead here. In a clutch at close range it turns the round into a 50:50 - if they get hit you win, if it is blocked - You WILL lose. Situational but it has its uses and is defenitely worth exploring.
Ring Out Potential
*Note* When I say normal hit - I mean the hit that will inflict the ring out need only be on normal hit - however your opponent may be able to block it on a string.*
Normal Hit
Forwards:
A+G
FCA+G
1AA
8A_9A
WS AA
BBB_BB[ B]
B2A_B2[ A]
6B
3B_3[ B]
3KKB
A+Ka2AA
A+KA2AA
a+ka2AA
44K
66A+B
Full run K
SBH A
SBH B
SBH A+B
SCH [ B]
SSH AA
SRSH A+B
Backwards:
FCB+G
1B
Left:
ag:A
66A
66KA
11_99K
SSH K (Normal hit ONLY)
Right:
3A
1AA
A+Ka2AA
A+KA2AA
a+ka2AA
Counter hit only
Forwards:
4K
9K
A+KK
Backwards:
-
Left:
-
Right:
6A_6[A]
A+KK
As a little extra to add to Siegfried's already good side RO game, here's a neat little trick for Left side RO:
Siegfrieds Left side throw has backward RO potential, so if you step in, step left and throw, should the throw connect, there is a 50% chance of instant death. This is a trick you will find employed regularly by Xianghua players, but it also applies to Siegfried. Bear in mind however that due to Siegfried's weak sidestep, you must make a full step to achieve this, don't step G.
Punishment:
Standing:
-13< :K 12 dmg +2 Advantage
-14< :6K 18 dmg -1 Disadvantage
-15< :6A 24 dmg -2 Disadvantage OR 6[A] for +2 Advantage in Stance
-16< :B6 20 dmg +1 Advantage
-16< :a+k[A], SCH A 62 dmg, -3 Disadvantage (Very fucking difficult to buffer and only punishes at close range.)
-17< :3[ B] SCH K 40 dmg KND with good wakes. 3[ B] only at tip for 18 dmg and +7 Advantage.
-24< :1B 63 dmg KND Behind. At tip 28 dmg with good pushback.
Crouching:
-15< : WSK 22 dmg +4 Advantage
-17< : WS[ B] SCH B 36 dmg KND
Mixups:
Way back in the day when I was a scrub, (about a year ago XD) I started experimenting with stance roulette, and mixups therein, while this section will focus on mixups in neutral - give this thread I made a read as it will give a general idea on things to try out, even if some of the ideas are outdated (which by now they probably are).
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/mixups-and-mind-games-a-lehmans-guide.6097/
Stance mixups are something that I believe are completely unique to each Siegfried, which is why playing him is so much fun, no two Siegfried's are alike. As such I will proceed to talk about neutral mixups to get started with and let you make your own way with stance stuff, the thread linked above will give you a couple of ideas.
A/a+kA
These moves mixup well as they have identical animations, save one differance: A impacts 3 frames slower than a+kA, but in a fight this is indistinguishable and this is therefore a very powerful mixup as the properties are very differant:
A is only -2 on Block +4 on Hit and +6 on Counter Hit meaning it gives fair advantage, but it is practically neutral on block, which at range means against most characters you can power through with your offense.
a+kA on the other hand is is -10 on Block, HOWEVER it is +10 (which is MASSIVE) on Normal OR Counter Hit.
As your opponent cannot tell the differance between the two attacks they have to assume worst case scenario and thus assume either hit to be -2 on block AND +10 on Hit. This may look like an inconsiderable move by animation, but it is a scary tactic as your opponent has no real idea what you've done - giving you a significant mental advantage. Use them to enter stance and their troubles are magnified.
[A] is -1 on block and leaves you in SSH giving you options if it is blocked - though I have mentioned the weakness of SSH against characters like Sophitia, however, against most of the cast - the mixup becomes LETHAL.
a+k[A] is -4 and leaves you in SCH - though this makes your options interruptable fear of SSH actually gives you an advantage. The most commonplace answer to SSH is to duck and react to SSH B, whereas this is a bad idea vs. SCH as B will send you into nasty oki. If you mix occasional a+k[A] with a lot of [A], you can fairly easily catch a defensive opponent out.
Not bad for a 'basic' high poke, hm?
BB/B2A_B2A4 SCH
B2A delivers a good, powerful KND, is chargeable and cancellable into SCH. This gives you a series of powerful mind games to answer the options of all of the cast, save its fatal weakness - it is interruptable before the second hit. BB however is another option to the string which will catch any mindless interruption and although it is -14 and thus slightly unsafe, fear of the third hit makes it harder to punish.
It is a situational and uncommon mixup among Siegfried's but by no means useless - there are situations for it and it can play havoc with your opponent's head.
*NOTE - this mixup is susceptible to Mid Agi attacks such as Kilik's Asura Dance or Cassandra's 4B+K*
A+KK/Remaining A+K series
This mixup is pretty simple - A+KK kills interrupt and crouching - leaving you free to mixup the remaining series at your leisure.
a+kA2A/a+kA2AA
The first low hit is safe on block and gives a good strong advantage on hit - there is no obligation to continue the series. Occasionally mix in the final hit to deliver a KND to an opponent immediately counterattacking - punish their aggression, fear of the second hit will allow you to continue offence against a lazy opponent even on block. It is pretty punishable (FC -19) but if mixed in sparsely this should present no problem. Unless fighting a punisher as adept as Xianghua or Sophita, I always say: Yes, Siegfried's moves are very punishable - only if you block them though =P.
My first post on 8wayrun was a thread on this series of attacks, so follow the link below and you will see a more detailed study contributed by Zombiebear666 and quite an amusing argument ^^(Yes, I was a scrub back then, hahaha.)
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-has-triple-grounder-suck-it-nightmare.5632/
Grab/Mid
This is a pretty crude mixup, but it is still a powerful one - many players would even go so far as to say it is the crux of playing Siegfried well. Nightmare players will already be familiar with this strategy, but to everybody else:
Basically, throw the shit out of them untill they start ducking out of panic, then slam them hard with your KND mids. Scary as hell to fight against.
Practical Application
OK, so you've worked through the guide and now hopefully have a good iea of how you're going to play him. Now what?
Follow this link to see Siegfried in action - there are videos to be found here from practically all the Siegfried players to have graced this soul arena & I personally believe practical application to be the best way to learn.
http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-videos.178/
I hope you found this guide useful and will continue to learn Siegfried. I hope you will eventually master him.
As Cradle of Filth said, 'Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder'.