Moveset Breakdown

Eji1700

[09] Warrior
Just going to give a quick breakdown on all of groh's moves. Important moves are going to be marked with a *

Quick Key:
GB- Guard Break
RE- Reversal Edge
CE- Critical Edge
SC- Soul Charge
GI- Guard Impact
CR- Crouched
WR- While Rising
CH- Counter Hit
LH- Lethal Hit
W!- Wall Splat
KD- Knockdown

Numpad notation (2 is down, 8 is up, 6 is right, 4 is left)

Stance Key:

AVG - Avenger - when groh splits his staff
SoN - Steed of the Night - whenever groh is teleporting (Soul Charge Only)

Notes-

AVG:
While many AVG stance transitions leave you less - on block, you cannot block while in AVG and have no defensive moves (no auto GI/Crush properties), so you're almost always AA punishable if you're blocked and go into stance. You can still try stepping though (AVG 8/2) in case they get greedy and go for a vertical punish.

SoN:
There are two types of SoN. 4 and 6. 4 teleports behind, and 6 teleports in front (always the same distance). When in SC you get several moves which can now transition into a stance that could not before (4 B+K for example), however they always go into SoN6, NOT AVG and NOT SoN4. You can of course not push an attack button and then go into AVG options, but to my knowledge this never combos.

Moves with (SC) next to them are soul charge only

A note on safety:

AA is usually the most common punish and for most of the cast its 12f, so moves are generally safe if they're -11 or less on block. Taki has a 10f A usually (I haven't checked this game) and soph is notable for having a 13/14f (depending on if she's already crouching or not) 236B, giving her a better punish tool than most of the cast.

A Attacks:

*AAA - Like any other AA yours is 12 frames an good for punishing moves and checking pressure. The 3rd hit is never guarenteed, but it's -6 instead of -8 if blocked. Not much else to say. AA is a main tool.

*6AA/6A6- This is a sort of built in mixup. It only combos on counterhit, and is -8 on block either way, but since the second hit is delayed it'll beat mashers, and you get the option of going into stance instead once they start blocking both hits for a mixup. Further it knocks down for ring out and wall splat options. Very good move.

3A- I still think it's trash, but it's a 16 frame horizontal mid that's +6 on ch. It is however -10 on block and only neutral on regular hit.

*2A- Bog standard poke. 12 frames and you'll duck highs. Use this to check pressure. For example, this basically destroys nightmares grim stride pressure beating almost every option in most scenarios.

*1A/1AK(SC)- A decent damage low. It can be reacted to if they're looking for it(26f), and it's -16 on block so be careful. Very good tool to catch rolls and since it leaves them crouching might setup for 44K lethal hits. The 1AK followup is boatloads of damage but be careful as its launch punishable and cannot be hit confirmed. Second hit will also whiff if they're on the ground.

*4A/4A6- You should always do the 6 for the AVG stance transition as far as I can tell. If you do it goes from -4 on block to +3, and is one of the only ways for groh to get into stance on block. Don't throw this out a ton, but a very useful move vs turtles.

*CR A- Crouching poke. Identical to 2A.

WR A/WR A6- Ok WR option. Doesn't lead to much on hit except AVG. You're either -12 or -8 so either way you're eating an AA.

7/8/9A- Jumping horizontal. Pretty standard, but it does KD so keep it in mind for ringout and wall combo options.

*33/66/99AA- The second hit is -14 on block while the first is only -8, so be careful when you use it. That said good damage, catches most step options, and knocks down for more shenanigans.

22/88A- Only -2 on block but hits high. Combos into 66B+K on hit though. Ok option.

11/44/77A- Auto GI most non kick non low vertical attacks for a crumple lethal hit and huge damage. On the other hand the window is short and you need a GOOD read to use this as anything but a punish to something reactable. I basically never use it, and I suspect optimal play will involve rarely using this except to punish foolish verticals.

B Attacks:

*BBB- Like AA, BB is a bog standard tool for most kits. A decent damage 14 frame mid option. 3rd B will KD for ringouts and is -4 on block instead of -6, but but will never combo, not even on CH.

*6BB/6BB6- You can hit confirm the 6 for the stance transition, thus making this an excellent way to get into AVG. It's 16 frames and only -10 on block if you don't stance transition (-5 if you do stance, but you can't block, so you eat an AA).

*3B/3BB(SC)-18f Standard launcher. Groh doesn't get great damage from this outside of blowing CE, even on CH. Mainly goes into 6BB6 or 66B+K(mostly better) or 44B+K(RO or W! option). Not much else to say other than it's -16 on block so be careful. In SC it does a boatload of damage thanks to the B followup, so keep it in mind.

2B- I'm going to skip the obvious DLC jokes and just say it's an ok poke. Not much to write home about.

*1BB/1BB6(SC)- First off, it only combos on CH. That said just throwing out 1B to break turtles is wonderful. It's a fast(22f) low that leaves you at +2 on hit and -14 on block (AA punish for most the cast). The second B will wall splat, and in SC it gives you a SoN6 K followup for extra damage, or you can do A/B/Nothing for more mixups. Don't overuse this move, but don't forget it exists either.

4B- A built in step that's +4 on hit and -7 on block. It's mostly ok, but in some scenarios you can setup the LH (Needs to hit them in the back) for decent damage (leads to 3B usually). A safe way to check verticals than 22/88 B

CR B- Sames as 2B.

WR B/WR B6- Highly recommend you only use this to punish as it's -12 on block. Technically on CH if you do the 6 you'll get AVG BB after for decent damage, but this move will trade or lose to many AA's, thus missing the CH. Use mainly to punish if you duck a throw.

7/8/9B-Jumping B, a little better since lots of low's you'd want to jump tech crouch. KD on hit and forces crouch on guard but it's -8 so questionable how useful that is.

*33/66/99BB- -10 on block even if you only do one B, but you might want to vary it up just to see what you can catch. Other than that a far reaching safe mid with decent damage that KDs and even pressure guard bar decently. Use it.

*22/88B- Your way to punish verticals, as it'll often LH if they whiff. That said it's -16 on block so be careful with it. If you do get the LH though it combos into 8B+K, 66B+K for very nice damage, or 8A+B6 for slightly less damage and a better AVG setup.

11/44/77B- +2 on block and forces crouch. Might be a good way to setup 44K LH, but it's pretty slow. Leads to 66B+K on hit (i think) but it's very very slow at 28f. I suspect this is a good turtle tool, but I haven't used it enough to really comment.

K Attacks:

*K- 12 frame high that's -8 on block. Decent poke and another way to check pressure. Neutral on hit though

6K- Not very good. Slower than K(16f), but +4 on hit and -10 on block.

*3K- A little tricky to setup, but a whopping +10 on CH at 14f and only -4 on block. Still +6 on normal hit and a great way to setup some of your biggest damage options or keep pressure going.

*2K- Standard low poke. 16f, -4 ON HIT, -14 on block. Use it to check pressure, poke turtles, and close out rounds.

*1K- Good low to catch step and rolls and duck under highs. Slow at 24f, neutral on hit, but KD on CH, and -14 on block.

*4K- 22f and -10 on block, but it can catch step and will KD, making it a great RO tool.

*CR K- same as 2k

*WR K- not a bad option at all after hitting with 1A. 12f, +6 on hit, and -8 on block.

7/8/9 K- Jumping kick. Pretty meh all around but the fastest of the jumping options.

33/66/99 K- Big launcher for 8B+K, 66B+K. only -12 on block so decently safe as well. Worth throwing out every now and then once you've got them blocking low.

11/44/77 K- Jumps over lows and will LH on whiffed attacks (not just lows). Only leads to 3B combos though and is fairly risky otherwise being slow as hell (28f) and -14 on block.

Dual Button Attacks:

*A+B/A+B6- generic GB and a very good move if you can set it up. Standard use is in GI wars where it'll LH if it beats a GI or RE for great damage, but it's also not bad to occasionally throw out when you're +, as it leads to quite a bit on damage on hit or CH, and is +4 on block or +9 if you do the stance transition.

*6A+B/6A+B6- -14 on block, KDs on hit, and catches step very well. Will LH on CH for some of groh's highest damage options. Seems to actually tech crouch under AA's as well.

*2A+B- Tracking and far reaching GB low. WILL NOT HIT GROUNDED OPPONENTS. Other than that a great move that leaves you at +4 on block and otherwise does good damage and will KD.

4A+B/4A+B6(SC)- Pretty meh launcher outside of its tech crouch. The damage in SC is huge since you can SoN B, but it's 34 frames to start. All that said it's -8 on block so not horrible for being safe.

8A+B/A+B6- Don't use this in neutral, but it's a very good combo option for certain launchers and LHs as it does good damage and leaves them right at your feet.

*6B+K- tech crouching launcher that gives some of groh's best damage (AVG A+B, 66B+K on hit, or AVG B+K, 66B+K on CH). Only -8 on block.

2B+K- Groh's unblockable. Can be cancelled with G up to a certain point. Not much to write home about as it's quite long at 60 frames. Might be worth the occasional mind game.

4B+K/4B+K6(SC)- Outside of SC is a pretty lacking long range poke. In SC you do get a followup SoN K on hit, but I rarely touch the move personally.

8B+K- Combo or tech trap only. If you hit someone on the ground you get 66B+K to followup.

22/88 bA- Need to test this more. it's a17f horizontal that's +6 on hit and forces opponent to turn around. -6 on block, so probably worth using as a poke.

*22/88/33/66/99 A+B- Good long range whiff punish and spacing tool. Good damage and KD, -16 on block but has decent pushback making it pretty safe.

*33/66/99 B+K/B+K6- Mostly useful for combo enders or chasing back rolls. -14 on block so be careful with it.

22/88/11/44/77 B+K- Mostly combo fodder or a whiff punish if their back is to the edge/wall.

Avenger(AVG) Moves:

*All of these should be used*

AVG A/AVG [A]- multihit horizontal low. The held version is safer, does more damage, and KD without CH. Regular version is -20 on block, so please be careful with it. I see a lot of groh going nuts with this and it's really not super safe if you don't charge it. Other than that though it is a great toll since it's 24 frames uncharged, covers good range, and will catch most rolls. Oh and on lethal hit (need to GB them first) combos into CE for absurd damage.

AVG B/AVG BB- simple vertical mid option to punish crouch. B version ends back in AVG for shenanigans, but is -12 on block so not safe at all(+3 on hit). The second B adds more damage and is -6 on block, +6 on hit. An essential part of his AVG mixup game, letting you loop the move into itself and occasionally cheating out the punish when you do the second hit.

AVG K- 16f horizontal low! Very short range but so so good and ends with you back in AVG (-11 on block, +3 on hit. ) USE THIS. I'll often mash K until they start respecting it, but keep an eye on how far back you push them each time.

AVG A+B- 20f attack throw that's -16 on block. Probably the most situational option as it will catch step from farther away than AVG K and beats crouching, but needs some pretty good reads to land. Usually used in combos.

AVG B+K- Dear god this move. 28f forced crouch on block GB. It's +8 on block, long range, and will mess someone up. If it beats GI or RE you get a LH into 8A+B for more damage and setting back up into AVG if you want, while on normal hit its just good damage and a free tech chase setup.

AVG 2/8- Step option for avenger. Keep in mind you have this, as step into 4B is a good way to land the LH for that and can help you get out of greedy punishes, or mess up mashers. Might be very important in some matchups with slow AA's (nightmare comes to mind).

AVG 4/6(SC)- Transitions into SoN, teleporting you behind or in front of them and then performing an attack if you so choose (read the section below for more on that). Remember it's an option as some unsafe situations become safe if you us AVG 4 to teleport behind them, causing their attacks to whiff.

Steed of the Night(SoN) Moves:
Note- the game has a 6 in front of all of the moves for this, but really you just need to be in SoN, which is triggered usually with either specific SC only stance transitions like 1BB6/6AA6 or AVG 4/6

*Use all of these*

Do nothing- Legit option. You can just end the teleport in front or behind them in AVG so that you can do AVG K/A/[A] to threaten low or just teleport again (don't try to mash it too much. You are not invulnerable, you just often wind up out of the way of their counter).

SoN A- Double hitting GB but both hits are high. +4 on block and KD on hit. If you get a W! on this you can AVG BB, 1AK for about 150ish damage.

SoN B- Triple hitting mid that does excellent damage. Most importantly the height of the teleport often puts you out of reach for specific moves and punishes, making certain punishable situations safe as its only -8 on block, and you'll blow them up if they try to attack.

SoN K- Quick mid. Usual combo follow up for 1BB6 or 4B+K6. -2 on block so it can let you do some silly things after sometimes.

Reversal Edge:

I don't know enough about all his outcomes yet to comment, but the main thing to know is that groh LOVES using RE. Don't spam it, but since groh does gross things in SC, and RE gives you more meter, it is worth learning what moves you can RE reliably so that you get extra meter in a match. Don't hold on to it either. Make sure you remember to setup his SC when you can.

Throws:

Not much to say except that his throw game is trash because NONE OF HIS THROWS RING OUT. Just keep that in mind as opponents will usually try to break his forward throw when their back is to the arena, and you give up nothing going for his back throw there. Outside of this obnoxious feature they're about average on damage and options after.

Critical Edge:

While there's some crazy good ones in this game, groh's isn't one of them. It's 99% going to be used in combo's after 3B/RE K and other such situations. I have no idea if it's safe on block, but I think not. That said it's worth knowing that it goes from doing about 80 dmg normally, to 110 if you're in SC when you use it. So in those last round scenarios where you get a free bar and wind up with 2, it's important to remember.
 
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The above post has a few too many incorrect statements or is misleading.

AAA and BBB cannot combo, period. It cannot combo on counter hit or otherwise.
3A is not trash.

Groh's ability to enter AVN stance is not dependant on the opponent's ability to block attacks or not. Groh can enter stance regardless of hit or block on every move that allows it. Whether he should or not is debatable.

There's no tech crouch on 6A+B. A+B does have a tech crouch.
6B+K has a built in tech crouch and is guaranteed on all his LHs that aren't launchers.

44A's aGI window is at the very start of the attack. Will GI A+B and B+K high and mids verticals as well.
 
The above post has a few too many incorrect statements or is misleading.

AAA and BBB cannot combo, period. It cannot combo on counter hit or otherwise.
3A is not trash.

Groh's ability to enter AVN stance is not dependant on the opponent's ability to block attacks or not. Groh can enter stance regardless of hit or block on every move that allows it. Whether he should or not is debatable.

There's no tech crouch on 6A+B. A+B does have a tech crouch.
6B+K has a built in tech crouch and is guaranteed on all his LHs that aren't launchers.

44A's aGI window is at the very start of the attack. Will GI A+B and B+K high and mids verticals as well.
AAA/BBB-
Seems the gap between the 2nd and 3rd hit is long enough the AI considers it a new move and stops blocking. Annoying

3A-
I'm really not sold. I am being harsh on it as it's only the second hit of 6AA that's mid, and you get some nice advantage on CH from 3A, but being neutral on hit and -10 on block for 16 frames doesn't strike me as even average.

AVG-
Literally every non SC stance transition except A+B6 and 4A6 is punishable on block by AA. That's all i'm talking about. I'm well aware he can transition on block. I'm saying often you shouldn't because it's 100% punishable.

6A+B-
I'm testing this right now and it's going under groh's AA. It's not instant, but it will duck under and CH.

A+B-
Conversely this doesn't seem to go under groh's AA at all.

6A+B-
I can get the crouch, and the combo followup on most the lethal hits, but it seems inconsistent/spacing dependent using 4B

44A-
I just said non kick non low verticals, which would include A+B and B+K attacks.
 
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