Lags
[08] Mercenary
The primary purpose of this thread is to detail practical setups and explain why they work and potentially what they shutdown. Additionally, move breakdowns and how they correspond to character matchups will be included. I am breaking it down into three overall parts:
Setups
The setup notation and a quick summary of what it does.
Setup Analysis
A more detailed breakdown of the setup and why it works, what it potentially stuffs, and any inherent weaknesses.
Move Analysis
Properties on individual moves in specific scenarios that can pertain to character matchups.
This post will be modified as needed and when I have more information.
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-Setups-
Auto GI Setup
NH 2K,FC 3B
NH 2K,FC 3B basically stuffs probably close to 70% of the moves in the game. People frequently get baited into the aGI. This is Cass' best aGI setup.
Auto GI Setup
Blocked BB,4B+K
How many times have we all seen a blocked BB get responded with a BB in return? The funny part is, even if you get NH/CH 4B+K, you can still try to milk a second aGI attempt by throwing out 4B+K again.
Frame Trap
Blocked WSK,236B
Advantage and forced crouch. This is a good test to see if they know they are being frame trapped. If they don't know they are being frame trapped, then if they try to attack, 236B will end up beating out most options.
Frame Trap
Blocked BK,2B+K
This is why it is good to know if a frame trap can be ducked and whiff punished. If they never duck the K and don't know they are being frame trapped, you'll often get the CH 2B+K.
CH Bait
NH FC 1B,3AK
For whatever reason, a lot of people don't respect being hit by FC 1B. On top of that, in open space, the 3A whiffs and people love trying to punish the whiff and instead get nailed by K.
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-Setup Analysis-
NH 2K,FC 3B
The numbers are pretty straightforward. NH 2K = -5. The aGI frames for FC 3B are 10-17. So, i15's get aJI'ed, i16-i22's get GI'ed, i23's trade, and it beats anything i24 or slower. This maximizes the aGI window for the most common retaliations (which are generally verticals against a crouching opponent).
Given that FC 3B retains full crouching properties, it automatically negates all High attacks (which would include throws). The aGI will work against ALL verticals; even low verticals. This effectively negates all B-type attacks and even some kicks. So, the only way to beat this aGI is to use horizontal A's and horizontal K's that hit Mid or Low. Additionally, because you are in a crouch state, many TJ moves will jump over you and cause a double whiff. This drastically limits the possible moves that can beat the setup.
As an example of how bad it can get, here are what options Cass has out of her movelist that actually beats this setup in mirror:
3A
2A
2K
66A
33K
236A
2A+G
2B+G
23652_8A
23652_8B
23652_8K
214A (in open space)
214B (in open space)
214 (in open space)
That's a pretty tiny subset compared to her overall movelist. Basically, just by playing the numbers, this setup stuffs a HUGE amount of moves. As a general rule of thumb, your opponent will probably have to 2A or 3A to beat you out.
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-Move Analysis-
NH 33KA+K Steppability
Tested with me being on 1P and the AI performing NH 33KA+K on 2P.
If you have any sort of spacing on NH 33K, the A+K followup cannot be stepped. However, at point blank range, it is possible to step the A+K followup. The step timing and overall step window is different for every character who can potentially step it.
The following characters could NOT step the A+K:
Yoda
Lizardman
Sophitia
Setsuka
Mitsurugi
Siegfried
Nightmare
Voldo
Kilik
Astaroth
Ivy
Rock
Talim
Yoshimitsu
Algol
There are two exceptions though to the list:
Sophitia
Voldo
Sophitia can still Twin Angel Step (TAS) and Angel Step Sidestep (ASS) to force the A+K to whiff.
Voldo can still 2_8A+K evade to force the A+K to whiff.
What this basically means is that about half the cast will generally be forced to block it. The rest can potentially force a whiff and punish.
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4BB:A Neutral Grounded Pickup
Tested with me being on 1P and the AI being on 2P with the 1P model.
4B can pickup some characters as they lay neutral on the ground. Factors include whether they are facing up, facing down, the angle, and sometimes whether you are inside their model or not.
The following characters can potentially be picked up off the ground:
Lizardman
Amy
Raphael
Taki
Hilde
Tira
Astaroth
Ivy
Rock
Zasalamel
General positioning/angle for grounded pickups:
Lizardman (face down): can pickup on Lizardman's Shield Side
Amy (face down): can pickup on Amy's Rapier Side
Raphael (face down): can pickup on Rapier's Rapier Side
Taki (face up): can pickup on Taki's Dagger Side; can pickup Taki's freehand elbow
Taki (face down): can pickup on Taki's Freehand Side
Hilde (face up): can pickup Hilde's left knee; can pickup Hilde's left shoulder
Hilde (face down): can pickup Hilde's spear arm; can pickup Hilde's Sword Side
Tira (face up): can pickup on Tira's Ringblade Side
Tira (face down): can pickup all angle's EXCEPT for Tira's Ringblade Side
Astaroth (face up): can pick both of Astaroth's legs; can pickup Astaroth's Axe Side
Astaroth (face down): can pickup all angles EXCEPT for Astaroth's foot and groin area
Ivy (face up): can pickup Ivy's left foot; can pickup Ivy's left pauldron
Rock (face up): can pickup Rock's right foot; can pickup Rock's Mace Side
Rock (face down): can pickup all angle's EXCEPT for Rock's foot and groin area
Zasalamel (face up): can pickup all angles
Zasalamel (face down): can pickup all angles
Picking up Ivy isn't practical at all. Lizardman, Amy, and Raphael might work if you are really paying attention to their floored state, but it still borders practicality. Taki and Hilde might be worth trying on if you are brave (especially against Hilde). Tira, Astaroth, and Rock should be pretty easy to setup if they like to play dead and should be the general candidates for 4B grounded pickup applications. Poor Zasalamel straight up gets abused; playing against him should make oki fun.
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aGI vs. 4B
To add to 4B's brokenness, it cannot be aGI'ed by the following moves that generally could work against Mid Verticals such as her BB:
Cass: 4B+K
Hilde: C2A/C3A
*Long story short, we figured out that 4B counts as a Mid "stabby" move - so 4B will work on any aGI's that do not aGI stabs.
Setups
The setup notation and a quick summary of what it does.
Setup Analysis
A more detailed breakdown of the setup and why it works, what it potentially stuffs, and any inherent weaknesses.
Move Analysis
Properties on individual moves in specific scenarios that can pertain to character matchups.
This post will be modified as needed and when I have more information.
----------
-Setups-
Auto GI Setup
NH 2K,FC 3B
NH 2K,FC 3B basically stuffs probably close to 70% of the moves in the game. People frequently get baited into the aGI. This is Cass' best aGI setup.
Auto GI Setup
Blocked BB,4B+K
How many times have we all seen a blocked BB get responded with a BB in return? The funny part is, even if you get NH/CH 4B+K, you can still try to milk a second aGI attempt by throwing out 4B+K again.
Frame Trap
Blocked WSK,236B
Advantage and forced crouch. This is a good test to see if they know they are being frame trapped. If they don't know they are being frame trapped, then if they try to attack, 236B will end up beating out most options.
Frame Trap
Blocked BK,2B+K
This is why it is good to know if a frame trap can be ducked and whiff punished. If they never duck the K and don't know they are being frame trapped, you'll often get the CH 2B+K.
CH Bait
NH FC 1B,3AK
For whatever reason, a lot of people don't respect being hit by FC 1B. On top of that, in open space, the 3A whiffs and people love trying to punish the whiff and instead get nailed by K.
----------
-Setup Analysis-
NH 2K,FC 3B
The numbers are pretty straightforward. NH 2K = -5. The aGI frames for FC 3B are 10-17. So, i15's get aJI'ed, i16-i22's get GI'ed, i23's trade, and it beats anything i24 or slower. This maximizes the aGI window for the most common retaliations (which are generally verticals against a crouching opponent).
Given that FC 3B retains full crouching properties, it automatically negates all High attacks (which would include throws). The aGI will work against ALL verticals; even low verticals. This effectively negates all B-type attacks and even some kicks. So, the only way to beat this aGI is to use horizontal A's and horizontal K's that hit Mid or Low. Additionally, because you are in a crouch state, many TJ moves will jump over you and cause a double whiff. This drastically limits the possible moves that can beat the setup.
As an example of how bad it can get, here are what options Cass has out of her movelist that actually beats this setup in mirror:
3A
2A
2K
66A
33K
236A
2A+G
2B+G
23652_8A
23652_8B
23652_8K
214A (in open space)
214B (in open space)
214 (in open space)
That's a pretty tiny subset compared to her overall movelist. Basically, just by playing the numbers, this setup stuffs a HUGE amount of moves. As a general rule of thumb, your opponent will probably have to 2A or 3A to beat you out.
----------
-Move Analysis-
NH 33KA+K Steppability
Tested with me being on 1P and the AI performing NH 33KA+K on 2P.
If you have any sort of spacing on NH 33K, the A+K followup cannot be stepped. However, at point blank range, it is possible to step the A+K followup. The step timing and overall step window is different for every character who can potentially step it.
The following characters could NOT step the A+K:
Yoda
Lizardman
Sophitia
Setsuka
Mitsurugi
Siegfried
Nightmare
Voldo
Kilik
Astaroth
Ivy
Rock
Talim
Yoshimitsu
Algol
There are two exceptions though to the list:
Sophitia
Voldo
Sophitia can still Twin Angel Step (TAS) and Angel Step Sidestep (ASS) to force the A+K to whiff.
Voldo can still 2_8A+K evade to force the A+K to whiff.
What this basically means is that about half the cast will generally be forced to block it. The rest can potentially force a whiff and punish.
-----
4BB:A Neutral Grounded Pickup
Tested with me being on 1P and the AI being on 2P with the 1P model.
4B can pickup some characters as they lay neutral on the ground. Factors include whether they are facing up, facing down, the angle, and sometimes whether you are inside their model or not.
The following characters can potentially be picked up off the ground:
Lizardman
Amy
Raphael
Taki
Hilde
Tira
Astaroth
Ivy
Rock
Zasalamel
General positioning/angle for grounded pickups:
Lizardman (face down): can pickup on Lizardman's Shield Side
Amy (face down): can pickup on Amy's Rapier Side
Raphael (face down): can pickup on Rapier's Rapier Side
Taki (face up): can pickup on Taki's Dagger Side; can pickup Taki's freehand elbow
Taki (face down): can pickup on Taki's Freehand Side
Hilde (face up): can pickup Hilde's left knee; can pickup Hilde's left shoulder
Hilde (face down): can pickup Hilde's spear arm; can pickup Hilde's Sword Side
Tira (face up): can pickup on Tira's Ringblade Side
Tira (face down): can pickup all angle's EXCEPT for Tira's Ringblade Side
Astaroth (face up): can pick both of Astaroth's legs; can pickup Astaroth's Axe Side
Astaroth (face down): can pickup all angles EXCEPT for Astaroth's foot and groin area
Ivy (face up): can pickup Ivy's left foot; can pickup Ivy's left pauldron
Rock (face up): can pickup Rock's right foot; can pickup Rock's Mace Side
Rock (face down): can pickup all angle's EXCEPT for Rock's foot and groin area
Zasalamel (face up): can pickup all angles
Zasalamel (face down): can pickup all angles
Picking up Ivy isn't practical at all. Lizardman, Amy, and Raphael might work if you are really paying attention to their floored state, but it still borders practicality. Taki and Hilde might be worth trying on if you are brave (especially against Hilde). Tira, Astaroth, and Rock should be pretty easy to setup if they like to play dead and should be the general candidates for 4B grounded pickup applications. Poor Zasalamel straight up gets abused; playing against him should make oki fun.
-----
aGI vs. 4B
To add to 4B's brokenness, it cannot be aGI'ed by the following moves that generally could work against Mid Verticals such as her BB:
Cass: 4B+K
Hilde: C2A/C3A
*Long story short, we figured out that 4B counts as a Mid "stabby" move - so 4B will work on any aGI's that do not aGI stabs.
