SC4 Ivy vs. SC2 Ivy

Rezildur

Rezildur

[09] Warrior
This isn't really a technical thread... more of a thought/opinion thread.

I was watching some old SC2 videos of Ivy and between the voice she had then, and her spiral serenade, I'm feeling like she was just generally way more of a badass than she is now. I think that there is something to be said for her high pitched laugh when doing stinging souls or the seamlessness of her transitions from whip to sword.

I still love her in SC4, but she feels slower and a bit more cumbersome (that might be partially due to the giant breasts)... and even though we have three stances now I actually think, looking back on it, that she was more versatile in some ways back in SC2 because she was quicker, had better side step moves I think? and all you had to do was hold down 6B instead of switching to a whole new stance to get it to extend.

Oh yeah and did I mention Spiral Serenade? WTF did they take that out? Was it considered too overpowered or something because IMO that was a defining characteristic of Ivy...it made her much more like a dominatrix.

What do you guys think?
 
Yea Ivy was so much fun, Flaming CS FTW. Miss her old JP voice actor :(
Also her SC3 SE--> CS/SS need to come back, using her old command throw 376231 inputs.
SC3 66K-->SE-->CS that was godly, well I am going to go and reminisce.
Btw was that move broke? Would it be broke if it was in SC4?
I always wondered.
 
I really miss that "Faha…hahahaha" laugh Eli mentioned in another thread.

Eli123s said:
CS/SS need to come back, using her old command throw 376231 inputs.
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Nooooooooo! If they ever make another SC game, the input for command throws should be different than SC2/SC3 and SC4. It's really no fun when you can do CTs from the very beginning. I admit that I was cursing a lot on the SC4 input in the past year, but now when I look back, it was fun mastering this.

Eli123s said:
SC3 66K-->SE-->CS that was godly, well I am going to go and reminisce.
Btw was that move broke? Would it be broke if it was in SC4?
I always wondered.
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That move was godly in properties, yes. Being a fast TC mid with advantage on block and hit, it seemed great, however the opponent could easily avoid the mixup with retreat guard. If they did the same thing with SC4's SW 66K (and CS/SS from SE) it would be broken, because SC4 has no retreat guard =P
 
Did they remove Spiral Serenade because it was too overpowered?

I think they should get rid of Coil, it's a relatively awkward stance in my opinion (even though it does have its uses).


Make Spiral Serenade another alternate stance that you can go into like SE, and put back the old moves that whip now uses into Spiral Serenade (her SC4 WP 44BB for example).

You wouldn't really have to sacrifice that many moves that way. CL and WP have all of the same kicks, anyway for example. Her WP 22A / 66A was originally in SS, for example.

And for God's sake yes, give her back her old voice. Even if you can't get the old voice actress, get rid of the one that she is now, and get someone that sounds a little more bitchy and high pitched, cause what we have now doesn't fit the character!
 
Not really contributing anything constructive, but I just wanted to mention that the Ivy Soul Arena has some of the best conversations here. >_>
 
The Ivy Soul Arena is truly the best IMHO. There is just so much discussion and useful information here. The contribution in the Ivy Soul Arena can not be rivaled to any other Soul Arenas. Were just that great :)

The "Faha…hahahaha" was the greatest. That was such and intimidating and fearful laugh.

As for the inputs, it is fun learning new a input, it make CS/SS all the more satisfying. Its just I want pervious inputs to be use in another move in the next installment.

If the make an SC5, I would like for them to give SE new throws using SC2/SC3 inputs. I would want her SP stance back and that stance should have new throws using her SC4 inputs. Then SC5 Ivy Sword and Whip would have new inputs for SS/CC. If they did this I'd be so happy.
 
I've been wishing for a 3rd command throw ever since SC2, so that's the thing I want most. Doubt it'll happen though since throw breaks are only A or B. They should make it an A+B break, but then it would be like Tekken and she would have a throw advantage over other chars.

But dammit, I want to see a new command throw! Gettin' a little old seein' the same animations over and over again. And please give us back SC2 5-hit JF GB or at least make the properties better so that it's even worth the time mastering it. I don't get at all why it's nerfed when the execution difficulty is so high.

Yeah, Ivy has lost her luster since SC2 and while SC4 brought a little of it back it's not the same feeling of satisfaction. I like her new command throw inputs too cuz it provides something new and a challenge. But I don't like the weakened CS range compared to SC2.

And make her stomp useful again...miss the old beastly K2! That was one of her defining moves and now it's crap. Not complainin' just want Namco to stop nerfing her for no good reason!
 
Hm personally i like coiled. Alot! i'm always switching back to it when i get the chance. Though Spiral Serenade was bad ass. I wish she had the flail sword back too. was fun seeing her swing that thing around. And her costumes in sc2 were better.
 
This has been said before and is worth saying again. And again, and again. Until it finally reaches the ones responsible for making ivy overpowered. There is NO denying it. Her speed, stances, reach, the INCREDIBLE attack power, the seemless combos. Sure, she is hard to learn but HONESTLY, noone with an honest heart can say that she's not overpowered once you learn her. That is plain wrong, it's a fault by namco and MUST be fixed for SC5.
 
I do like Ivy's way of transitioning much more in SC4 tho. B+K/A+K holds are much more appealing than moves that force stance transition. I feel I have a lot more control and am less predictable when my opponent has to constantly pay attention to my stance. As well I like the command for SC4 Ivy, tho I wont be heartbroken if it changes again. A 3rd throw would make me happy...K+G! She reverse motorboats you to death...

Ivy is not OP. She's definitely very strong but she has a lot of cons to go along with those pros. Few good lows and anti step. She's surprisingly linear and steppable. She also only has speed at very close range. Outside of SW she's very slow. A lot of people just don't understand her and fall for a lot of dumb things that wouldn't work on a person who does.
 
Ivy is not OP. She's definitely very strong but she has a lot of cons to go along with those pros. Few good lows and anti step. She's surprisingly linear and steppable. She also only has speed at very close range. Outside of SW she's very slow. A lot of people just don't understand her and fall for a lot of dumb things that wouldn't work on a person who does.
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The few lows that she does have are perfect though. The leg sweep and 3-hitter are both combo guarantees and the latter is extremely abused by Ivy veterans. I've played enough of those to know what I'm talking about. Sidestepping strategies can so easily be punished with her that it's ridiculous. It's the speed, plain and simple. Add to this her own auto sidestep counter which is the fastest, most hit assuring autostep in the game. Also add all of her unblockables, the speed of the short horizontal and the range of the long horizontal mid. So few characters can match these pros and I've seen god damn SC-legends get crushed by unknown people who know what they're doing with Ivy. I couldn't deny the fact that she is OP no matter how much I loved her. I'm sorry.
 
Viable Lows:
SW 22K and 2A+K: They are great for their speed, though punishable but heavy reward.
SW 2A+B: good fake out, but steppable, slow, and punishable
WP 1B: Good mix up when you can get a person to stall, HIGHLY steppable.
WP 11A and SE 2A+K: Only really good at tip as good players will punsih or CH you on the spot

The first is good all the time, the other 3 require set up and training on the opponent and should all be used sparingly.

CL A+BA+K is NOT abused by Ivy veterans. While it is a staple, it is intended as a mix up. Online you have people that abuse it and ALWAYS do CL A+BA+K which is OP online yes. Offline it's completely managable. If you block the first hit u can guarantee they'll block the low unless you really put some mind games in there.

Where's this speed? She has fast moves, but by no means is that her selling point. She's only fast in SW mode for the most part.

As for CL 214, it's good, but highly abused online. Offline you get wrecked if you spam it. It's VERY unsafe. Unless it CHs Ivy can be punished by nearly every character. The SE options are all pretty bad too except 66K in terms of safety.

I think you're talking about online Ivys. Online Ivys are COMPLETELY different than offline. I lose to Ivy scrubs all the time simply because I play with an offline mentality. Online Ivy definitely has some BS, but all those tactics are either completely manageable or bad offline. Never take online seriously.
 
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