SCH K BE discussion - Options after launcher.

[Mandy]

So I was pondering for a while why I couldn't land agA after SCH K BE, and I realized it has more to do than the buffer window.

For this example we're using 3(B), SCH K BE, X as the combo.

Depeding on how fast you do SCH K BE after the combo you can get different things to connect.

If you do SCH K BE at the apex of 3(B)'s launcher height you get the maximum launch on it and can throw out agA without it whiffing. This netted 70-86 damage with W!/RO options(someone tell me what iagA damage is NH/CH since I still haven't mastered this).

Alternatively you can also use A+B for 72-86 damage.

If you do SCH K BE at the very last second after the 3(B) launcher, right before your opponent hits the ground you can do AA for 72-80 damage. Interestingly enough, depending on how they tech (will only connect if they tech forward) you can actually get AAB to connect for 89-90.

So our options after the launcher:
agA - 70-86 + W!/RO
A+B - 72-86
AA - 72-80
AAB - 89-90

So we do have more options other than agA. A+B can be a reliable alternative in the middle of the ring, you can also wakeup with SSH mixups. On late launchers you can AA without whiffing a hit on A+B or agA, and AAB is a nice option if you notice your opponent only techs towards you.

Hope this helps in one way or another, also please correct me if I botched any of the numbers/situations.

 

[Bastet]

So, 3(B) ~ Late SCH K BE (a quick moment before the opponent touches the ground) ~

iagA (late) - 85 damage
iagA (quick) - 83 damage
aga (late) - 77 damage
aga (quick) - 76 damage
A (late) - 65 damage
A (quick) - 64 damage
AA (late) - 77 damage
AA (quick) - 76 damage
AAB (late) - 99-101 damage (B can be avoided by aerial control to the left of right after the 2nd A leaving you at 77 damage)
AAB (quick) - 94 damage (B can be avoided by aerial control to the left of right after the 2nd A leaving you at 76 damage)
6A (late) - 71 damage
6A (quick) - 70 damage
4A (late) - 69 damage
4A (quick) - 68 damage
3A - 70 damage
B - 64 damage
3B (late) - 76 damage (Seems more of a tech trap to me)
3B (quick) - 74 damage
b6 (late) - 71 damage
b6 (quick) - 70 damage
4B (late) - 66 damage
4B (quick) - 65 damage
A+B - 93 damage (The last hit randomly whiffs, possibly it depends on the position your opponent has when you hit him while he is on air)
K (late) - 63 damage
K (quick) - 62 damage
6K (late) - 68 damage
6K (quick) - 67 damage
4K (late) - 63 damage
4K (quick) - 62 damage
4KK (late-quick) - 75 damage (The last K can be ACed in all directions except front)
3K (late) - 65 damage
3K (quick) - 64 damage
3KK (too late) - 76 damage (The 2nd K can be avoided by ACing to any direction except front, otherwise the B will be blocked)
3KK (late) - 74 damage (The 2nd K can be avoided by ACing to any direction except front)
3KK (quick) - 73 damage (The 2nd K can be avoided by ACing to any direction except front)
3KKB (late) - 86 damage (The 2nd K can be avoided by ACing to any direction except front)
3KKB (quick) - 85 damage (The 2nd K can be avoided by ACing to any direction except front)
1K - 65 damage
2K - 61 damage
2KK - 68 damage (The rest Ks whiff)
CE (late) - 123 damage
CE (quick) - 119 damage


3(B) ~ Quick SCH K BE ~

iaga (late) - 76 damage
iaga (quick) - 75 damage
aga (late) - 71 damage
aga (quick) - 70 damage
A - 61 damage
AA - 72 damage
AAB - 91 damage (B can be avoided by aerial control to the left of right after the 2nd A leaving you at 72 damage)
6A (late) - 66 damage
6A (quick) - 65 damage
4A (late) - 65 damage
4A (quick) - 64 damage
3A - 66 damage
B - 63 damage
BB - 74 damage
3B (late) - 73-75 damage (Seems like a techtrap)
3B (quick) - 69 damage
b6 (late) - 66 damage
b6 (quick) - 65 damage
4B (late) - 65 damage
4B (quick) - 64 damage
A+B - 86 damage (The last hit randomly whiffs, possibly it depends on the position your opponent has when you hit him while he is on air)
K - 60 damage
6K - 64 damage
4K - 60 damage
4KK - 71 damage (The last K can be ACed in all directions except front)
3K - 61 damage
3KK - 69 damage (The second K can be ACed in all directions except front)
3KKB - 81 damage (The second K can be ACed in all directions except front)
1K - 61 damage
2K (late) - 60 damage
2KK (late) - 69 damage (The rest Ks whiff)
2K (quick)- 59 damage
CE (late) - 114 damage
CE (quick) - 104 damage

I believe those are all of the options that can go after 3(B) ~ SCH K BE ~...
So as we see, it all depends on the height/opponent position, that's why some of them require a strict timing in order not to whiff. Also aerial control and techs are important here since after the BE you can do one hit before the opponent is capable of ACing (except agA/iagA).
From those lists it seems that A+B can be a good choice but not reliable, since the last hit can whiff... So iaga which is more reliable, ROs, wallsplats and has clean hit properties, seems to be a good choice too... I guess it's up to the player to choose which move is he gonna use in every situation, or if he is gonna take risks or not. As for AAB, if someone wants to avoid an attack he rarely goes front, it seems like suicide, to me at least. So, choose your attacks wisely.

I tested those combos on Leixia who has small hitboxes and didn't count any clean hits. If there was an option to set the clean hits on/off, I'd gladly use them too. If I have any error feel free to correct me.

 

[Siegfries]

The SCH K BE launch actually gives you an opportunity to use something you really can't, normally. Sieg's BB(A). I think they can AC out of the 2nd B but you have enough time to get the A off. If you wait the full amount of time they can interrupt of course but you can use the delay to mess with people. They can block it and jump it, even get out of range, it's all situational.

BB(A) is crap, for the most part. So nobody uses it. I've had people freeze up on me and not realize it's a low and eat it. Experienced people, too. Others have jumped it, and many will freeze up and simply block it, which is good.

Once you're using the delay to mess with people, start canceling into SCH after a little bit of that GB lighting to confuse some people even more.

I'm not saying it's particularly good or useful, but it's a fun little mix-up game. Give it a whirl.

 

[Sandman]

Is there anything post SCH K BE that will ring people out to Sieg's right?

 

[Pantocrator]

Is there anything post SCH K BE that will ring people out to Sieg's right?

Very nice question. I'm curious about people's answer.
On my side I use delay 3A. Delay to avoid air control opportunities. It's not so much effective but it can work.

 

[Nightblade]

3A is the best I can do as well, but even this is a stretch. Every move I can think of either rings out to the left, or releases the opponent into an AC'able state. I've gotten used to it. Now I'm just doing light hits with good recovery like 3K to go for a followup mix-up afterward.